From what I've read, no formal studies have really been conducted to
determine just how effective bats, purple martins, swallows, and other
such
predators are in controlling local mosquito populations. It's certainly
worth the try and the benefits are substantial.

The benefits are not substantial. That's the point. Bats do not eat as
many
mosquitoes as they are rumored to eat. You can't say it's substantial if
it's
not so.

You missed the point -- there have been no formal studies showing evidence
either way. Trying a biological control is worth the try and the benefits
of biological controls over chemical controls are substantial. If the
experiment is unsuccessful that will not alter the fact that the benefits of
biological controls over chemical controls are substantial -- it just means
that in this case, the biological control attempted was unsuccessful.

James

I was speaking of hiding in the bush at night in warms months. I think you
misunderstood or though that I meant now.
Actually though a lot of true flies and other insects do not die in the
cold - they somewhat hibernate and oh damn the specific word is eluding me -
but they slow down their bodies and either burrow deep or find places in
homes to overwinter. On a particularly warm sunny day in late winter you can
sometimes see flies flying around in some buildings that they have chose to
hide out in. They also hide behind siding, in insulation. Most houses are
infested with dormant bugs and the owners are totally oblivious.
Yes it gets cold here. Down to -40 in the winters. USDA Zone 2. Some say our
'national bird' is the mosquito. I think it is blackflies. You think
mosquitos are pesty - blackflies take chunks out of you that will leave a
welted bruise for a week. Animals run out of the bush to escape them in
spring - moose deer, bear.. run out onto the road and create havoc for
drivers. As a camper and outdoors person all my life I am immune to mosquito
bites. AS a kid they drove me nuts - now I don't even notice them. They itch
for about 5 minutes and go away. The lower pacific coast (Vancouver,
Victoria, Frasier Valley) doesnt get that cold - hovers around 0F. must be
something good about that because they get very few mosquitos there!!

I've enjoyed the debate Victoria. All in good spirit. Tina


I am in Northwestern Ont. Around 49th paralell.
"animaux" wrote in message
...
Insects are not mammals, but you know that. In cold climates there aren't
insects which remain alive through the winter. I don't know where in
Canada you
are, but doesn't it get cold in most of the country in winter?

They insects which survive all winter in Texas USDA Zone 8b are primarily
beneficial. Green lacewings are everywhere all winter till the summer
heat
arrives. Some moths. I've never once seen a mosquito in winter.

Are you on the Pacific side in a warm spot? I don't know much about
Canada
being warm in winter.

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:06:31 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

I said most insects are gone to hide in the bush - and I obviously know
that
moths are not in that group. I stand by my statement. Again I am speaking
of
in Canada and anywhere else that temps drop at night.
Most of the flying insects - soft bodied disappear - they go into the
bush
to keep warm as they do not have the homoeostatic temp controls that warm
blooded mammals have.
Tina

"animaux" wrote in message
.. .
Gone to hide in the bush for the night? Most moths are night flying
insects.
I'm happy your area is trying to use ecology for a situation, but it
serves no
purpose to give misinformation. Bats do NOT eat mosquitoes out of the
air
like
that. Not at the rate you seem to think.

The bats which night roost on our property are continuously eating
moths,
and
beetles by the street light. I watch them nightly. Many bats have not
left the
area for their migration to Mexico. Many of the males stay all winter.
Bats do
most of their eating at very high elevations...where it would be rare
to
find a
mosquito.


On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:45:05 GMT, "Tina Gibson"
opined:

Here we are trying to encourage all of these things but bats as well.
I
love
them - they come out a dusk when the birds are settling down and you
can
watch them swooping around eating the mosquitos!! You know it's
mosquitos
or the occasional moth depending on the time of year, because most of
the
other flying insects are gone to hide in the bush for the night. The

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
I would have thought that trying to encourage Swallows , Swifts and
House
Martins would be of more use.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

"JNJ" wrote in message
...
From what I've read, no formal studies have really been conducted to
determine just how effective bats, purple martins, swallows, and other
such
predators are in controlling local mosquito populations. It's
certainly
worth the try and the benefits are substantial.

The benefits are not substantial. That's the point. Bats do not eat as
many
mosquitoes as they are rumored to eat. You can't say it's substantial
if
it's
not so.

You missed the point -- there have been no formal studies showing evidence
either way. Trying a biological control is worth the try and the benefits
of biological controls over chemical controls are substantial. If the
experiment is unsuccessful that will not alter the fact that the benefits
of
biological controls over chemical controls are substantial -- it just
means
that in this case, the biological control attempted was unsuccessful.

James

Here here

I'm not really putting up bat houses this year thinking they're going to
irradicate the mosq pop. This just ain;t going to happen. I would just
like
to see us right some of the wrongs we have done by cutting down so many of
their breeding/summer areas.

One of the things that concerns me with the Anderson project is how much
time they'll give it to see if this helps or how they'll react if the bats
decide they do not like the bat houses.

James

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:09:13 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

I've heard guano makes wonderful compost. An anthro prof I once had did a
lot of excavation in Baja - found burials in caves. First they had to send
in the guano cleaners!! He went on and on about archeologists who had gotten
very sick from excavating cave burials in the past. This always sticks in my
head.

I'm not really putting up bat houses this year thinking they're going to
irradicate the mosq pop. This just ain;t going to happen. I would just like
to see us right some of the wrongs we have done by cutting down so many of
their breeding/summer areas.
Tina


I can understand that. I'm on the side you're on, believe me. I have
sacrificed my entire property to the habitat of anything which resides here.
Rats eat in our garden, so do squirrels, bats, mice, birds, snakes, skinks,
lizards and gecko. We kill nothing. It all works out.

V

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:16:22 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:


I was not trying to be mean spirited either. I love a good debate and always
try to see things in shades of grey. There is no black and white - this has
been useful for me - I have learnt something of Austin and how it was
overpopulated with bats!!!
Cheers, Tina

Austin markets itself with those bats! It's truly an amazing sight all summer
to see those bats fly out from under the bridge by the millions. They swarm out
for about an hour or more. Many of them swoop right next to your ears and it is
so exciting. Austin is a very hip city. The motto of the city is "Keep Austin
Weird." We have more hippies here from the 60s than anywhere outside of
possibly California and Woodstock, NY.

If you like bats, this is the place!
Victoria

Wow, that is cold. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr. It's still 85 degrees F. We only get
about 10 nights of hard freeze, but the ground never freezes here in this part
of Texas. Northern Texas gets very cold and has a lot of snow, especially in
the panhandle.

Well, I'm glad they are trying to do something biological, and I too am glad we
had this benign debate. See you again.

Victoria


On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:23:12 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

I was speaking of hiding in the bush at night in warms months. I think you
misunderstood or though that I meant now.
Actually though a lot of true flies and other insects do not die in the
cold - they somewhat hibernate and oh damn the specific word is eluding me -
but they slow down their bodies and either burrow deep or find places in
homes to overwinter. On a particularly warm sunny day in late winter you can
sometimes see flies flying around in some buildings that they have chose to
hide out in. They also hide behind siding, in insulation. Most houses are
infested with dormant bugs and the owners are totally oblivious.
Yes it gets cold here. Down to -40 in the winters. USDA Zone 2. Some say our
'national bird' is the mosquito. I think it is blackflies. You think
mosquitos are pesty - blackflies take chunks out of you that will leave a
welted bruise for a week. Animals run out of the bush to escape them in
spring - moose deer, bear.. run out onto the road and create havoc for
drivers. As a camper and outdoors person all my life I am immune to mosquito
bites. AS a kid they drove me nuts - now I don't even notice them. They itch
for about 5 minutes and go away. The lower pacific coast (Vancouver,
Victoria, Frasier Valley) doesnt get that cold - hovers around 0F. must be
something good about that because they get very few mosquitos there!!

I've enjoyed the debate Victoria. All in good spirit. Tina


I am in Northwestern Ont. Around 49th paralell.
"animaux" wrote in message
.. .
Insects are not mammals, but you know that. In cold climates there aren't
insects which remain alive through the winter. I don't know where in
Canada you
are, but doesn't it get cold in most of the country in winter?

They insects which survive all winter in Texas USDA Zone 8b are primarily
beneficial. Green lacewings are everywhere all winter till the summer
heat
arrives. Some moths. I've never once seen a mosquito in winter.

Are you on the Pacific side in a warm spot? I don't know much about
Canada
being warm in winter.

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:06:31 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

I said most insects are gone to hide in the bush - and I obviously know
that
moths are not in that group. I stand by my statement. Again I am speaking
of
in Canada and anywhere else that temps drop at night.
Most of the flying insects - soft bodied disappear - they go into the
bush
to keep warm as they do not have the homoeostatic temp controls that warm
blooded mammals have.
Tina

"animaux" wrote in message
.. .
Gone to hide in the bush for the night? Most moths are night flying
insects.
I'm happy your area is trying to use ecology for a situation, but it
serves no
purpose to give misinformation. Bats do NOT eat mosquitoes out of the
air
like
that. Not at the rate you seem to think.

The bats which night roost on our property are continuously eating
moths,
and
beetles by the street light. I watch them nightly. Many bats have not
left the
area for their migration to Mexico. Many of the males stay all winter.
Bats do
most of their eating at very high elevations...where it would be rare
to
find a
mosquito.


On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:45:05 GMT, "Tina Gibson"
opined:

Here we are trying to encourage all of these things but bats as well.
I
love
them - they come out a dusk when the birds are settling down and you
can
watch them swooping around eating the mosquitos!! You know it's
mosquitos
or the occasional moth depending on the time of year, because most of
the
other flying insects are gone to hide in the bush for the night. The

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
I would have thought that trying to encourage Swallows , Swifts and
House
Martins would be of more use.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk