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#197
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"Fran" wrote:
Boy, I don't think I've ever seen anyone drop so quickly into stereotyping about such a simple thing. I have. Happened in one of the subs of this thread just above. Think it was written by you, in fact. ral |
#198
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:10:31 GMT, KB9WFK said:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A. Lewis) wrote: On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and you got just over two days of food before you start starving. Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-) There is a way to get your cals from taters and other veggies, simply fry them in lard, or fat, even veggie oil. Another way is to eat some taters with a hamburger. By frying the veggies in fat, you change everything. |
#199
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A. Lewis) wrote: On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and you got just over two days of food before you start starving. Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-) A thanksgiving dinner is 2000. Are you going on personal experience with calorie intake? I would hate to have you as a dependent. By the way, thanks for being a regular ray of sunshine, I didn't know there was gonna be a pop quiz on this. As I said in my first post, I DONT KNOW how many acres require self-sufficiency. Dan kb9wfk |
#200
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"North" wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:34:07 -0600, "Bob Peterson" said: "North" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:10:31 GMT, KB9WFK said: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A. Lewis) wrote: On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and you got just over two days of food before you start starving. Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-) There is a way to get your cals from taters and other veggies, simply fry them in lard, or fat, even veggie oil. Another way is to eat some taters with a hamburger. By frying the veggies in fat, you change everything. The problem is where do you get the fats? the nuts that think you can live off a small garden are just dreaming. you can't do it without a lot of back breaking work, and even then the diet is poor and you run the risk of health problems from poor diet. better to figure in a lot of animal protein and fat as a big chunk of your diet. much easier than trying to eat 20 pounds of cauliflower every day. A small garden, NO. A small farm, doable, however you are not going work a 40/hr per week job and run a farm alone. With a spouce and kids (helpers) maybe. Anyone who would try to eat 20 pounds of cauliflower would be foolish, but a 1 or 2 cup sized serving of cauliflower with butter and topped with cheese would cover the CAL needs and be very tasty. The reason I say that living off a small farm would be doable is: A garden and livestock can provide enough food but is very hard work. You would not be able to produce enough butter and cheese out of 3 goats, however you could with 10. You could not produce enough eggs with 2 or 3 chickens, but you could with 20. Its all in how you prepare your veggies as to the CAL count. As far as potatoes, it would take 17 pounds of potatoes to meet to 2000 or so CALs needed for daily life, however you would only need 2 or 3 pounds of potatoes friedinfat to meet the same CAL count. Another reason why I say a small farm is doable is because most familys 100+ years ago lived soly off of the things they grew and produced from their small farms. Adding butter and cheese to veggies is the best way to increase the CAL count, and its how the irish and others made it. However, the OP (and several subsequent posters) seemed to indicate no need for animal products. This is just totally unrealistic in my view. |
#201
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A. Lewis) wrote: On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and you got just over two days of food before you start starving. Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? A thanksgiving dinner is 2000. Are you going on personal experience with calorie intake? I would hate to have you as a dependent. American nutrition labels are based on a 2,000 cal/day diet, which is, I presume, a *very* rough average for a moderately active adult -- i.e., not bedridden but not out plowing, either. Tour de France bicyclists consume 5-9,000 calories per day just to stay even. 3 to 4,000 calories for someone engaged in 8 or more hours of vigorous physical activity, like farmwork, is more than reasonable. BTW, the edible part of an artichoke contains practically no calories at all. It's the melted butter or mayonnaise sauce. :-) |
#202
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"rick etter" wrote:
Obviously not the lard butt that sits on the computer all day. There are, however, many occupations/activities that will burn off far more than 2000 calories in a days work or a few hours a day workouts. That you are too lazy to actually work/exercise doesn't mean that others are. Well-said, Rick. Too many folks think that gardening or farming is just as easy as using a can opener in the long run. It's far from it. ral |
#203
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"North" wrote in message ... On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:10:31 GMT, KB9WFK said: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A. Lewis) wrote: On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and you got just over two days of food before you start starving. Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-) There is a way to get your cals from taters and other veggies, simply fry them in lard, or fat, even veggie oil. Another way is to eat some taters with a hamburger. By frying the veggies in fat, you change everything. The problem is where do you get the fats? the nuts that think you can live off a small garden are just dreaming. you can't do it without a lot of back breaking work, and even then the diet is poor and you run the risk of health problems from poor diet. better to figure in a lot of animal protein and fat as a big chunk of your diet. much easier than trying to eat 20 pounds of cauliflower every day. |
#204
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:09:00 +1100, "Fran"
wrote: "Richard A. Lewis" wrote in message It was once a common topic on the misc.survivalism group....how many acres would it take to grow a year's food and all that. The bottom line was that if you plan *nothing but a veggan diet*, you pretty much have resigned yourself to a slow death. Most of our folks had heard or believed that it was possible to grow enough food on an acre, but it never stood up to scrutiny. Oh for Heavens sake! You are being patronising and heading off the track into pure fantasy. Bucket asked about a self sufficient lifestyle. Bucket did NOT ask about a vegan lifestyle or what the many froot loops at misc.survivalism go on about when they congregate for a fantasy session. Au contraire. Richard presented quite a few examples and numbers. The original question, like so many others that generate a lot of interesting discussion, is a nuanced one. What does "self-sufficient" mean? A hunter/gatherer nomadic existance? *Entirely* depending on one's own efforts to live without any transactions with others? Bucket mentioned vegetarian (not vegan) and telecommuting. So we can assume he uses money, and is just looking to produce much of his own food. As has been pointed out a number of times. a vegetarian diet with sufficient calories to sustain life would be *very* difficult for one person to achieve *on his own*. He may well be able to grow (and preserve) enough veg to eliminate the need for store-bought. He *will* have to have canning supplies, an energy source for canning, and time to do that work. Veg provide nutrition, but not many calories. It isn't the potato, it's the sour cream and butter. :-) Fats and sugars are calorie-dense foods. He proposed goats and chickens for milk and eggs, but they're labor-intensive food suppliers, and *also* require their own food. I wonder if there are *any* modern examples of true individual self-sufficiency. |
#205
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:00:17 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote: Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? ======================= Obviously not the lard butt that sits on the computer all day. There are, however, many occupations/activities that will burn off far more than 2000 calories in a days work or a few hours a day workouts. That you are too lazy to actually work/exercise doesn't mean that others are Hummm anyone up to a bit of research? When I was working above the arctic circle for an oil exploratation company, I was eating (2) 1 pound bags of Craft Carmel candies, and a 12pack of Coke, along with 4 large bologna and cheese sandwiches, every 10 hours. And was loosing weight. Anyone want to calculate how many calories I was consuming in those 8 hours? This of course did not count a big dinner at the end of the day. Gunner "Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face." -- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons" |
#206
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
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#207
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:10:31 GMT, KB9WFK said:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A. Lewis) wrote: On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and you got just over two days of food before you start starving. Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-) There is a way to get your cals from taters and other veggies, simply fry them in lard, or fat, even veggie oil. Another way is to eat some taters with a hamburger. By frying the veggies in fat, you change everything. |
#208
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:34:07 -0600, "Bob Peterson"
said: "North" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:10:31 GMT, KB9WFK said: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A. Lewis) wrote: On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and you got just over two days of food before you start starving. Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-) There is a way to get your cals from taters and other veggies, simply fry them in lard, or fat, even veggie oil. Another way is to eat some taters with a hamburger. By frying the veggies in fat, you change everything. The problem is where do you get the fats? the nuts that think you can live off a small garden are just dreaming. you can't do it without a lot of back breaking work, and even then the diet is poor and you run the risk of health problems from poor diet. better to figure in a lot of animal protein and fat as a big chunk of your diet. much easier than trying to eat 20 pounds of cauliflower every day. A small garden, NO. A small farm, doable, however you are not going work a 40/hr per week job and run a farm alone. With a spouce and kids (helpers) maybe. Anyone who would try to eat 20 pounds of cauliflower would be foolish, but a 1 or 2 cup sized serving of cauliflower with butter and topped with cheese would cover the CAL needs and be very tasty. The reason I say that living off a small farm would be doable is: A garden and livestock can provide enough food but is very hard work. You would not be able to produce enough butter and cheese out of 3 goats, however you could with 10. You could not produce enough eggs with 2 or 3 chickens, but you could with 20. Its all in how you prepare your veggies as to the CAL count. As far as potatoes, it would take 17 pounds of potatoes to meet to 2000 or so CALs needed for daily life, however you would only need 2 or 3 pounds of potatoes friedinfat to meet the same CAL count. Another reason why I say a small farm is doable is because most familys 100+ years ago lived soly off of the things they grew and produced from their small farms. Adding butter and cheese to veggies is the best way to increase the CAL count, and its how the irish and others made it. |
#209
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"North" wrote in message ... On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:10:31 GMT, KB9WFK said: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A. Lewis) wrote: On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and you got just over two days of food before you start starving. Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-) There is a way to get your cals from taters and other veggies, simply fry them in lard, or fat, even veggie oil. Another way is to eat some taters with a hamburger. By frying the veggies in fat, you change everything. The problem is where do you get the fats? the nuts that think you can live off a small garden are just dreaming. you can't do it without a lot of back breaking work, and even then the diet is poor and you run the risk of health problems from poor diet. better to figure in a lot of animal protein and fat as a big chunk of your diet. much easier than trying to eat 20 pounds of cauliflower every day. |
#210
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
Bob Peterson wrote: "North" wrote in message ... On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:10:31 GMT, KB9WFK said: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:50:33 GMT, (dstvns) wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:22 GMT, (Richard A. Lewis) wrote: On a 3,000-4,000cal diet, you'll need to eat approximately 12 pounds of potatoes per day just to maintain your body weight. Add in the artichokes, if they're of a comparable cal level as the taters, and you got just over two days of food before you start starving. Who the hell eats 4 thousand calories a day? Once you let your body aclimated to sub zero temps, your metabolism increases to the level of 4000 to 5000 calories a day just to provide the heat to keep you warm It is also common for infantrymen in the heat of battle to burn 4000 to 5000 calories a day. And of those that did, how many would try to get all of those calories from a single food source like potatos? I just pray for their sake that they don't try to raise a lone crop of Habanero peppers. I don't know how many pounds of those you would have to choke down per day but I think spontanious human combustion would be the result. :-) There is a way to get your cals from taters and other veggies, simply fry them in lard, or fat, even veggie oil. Another way is to eat some taters with a hamburger. By frying the veggies in fat, you change everything. The problem is where do you get the fats? the nuts that think you can live off a small garden are just dreaming. you can't do it without a lot of back breaking work, and even then the diet is poor and you run the risk of health problems from poor diet. better to figure in a lot of animal protein and fat as a big chunk of your diet. much easier than trying to eat 20 pounds of cauliflower every day. The Independent |
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