Hello,

I'm interested in starting a patch of wildflowers in the lawn.
Problem is, I'm not sure what kind of grass I have, whether it's part
of the natural landscape or if it was planted there at some point.
Could someone help me out? I'd like to know what grasses, native and
nonative, there are and Google or a group search didn't help out.
Sites that talk all about grasses and have photos should be helpful.

I'm in Zone 7a, Northern Alabama.

Daniel Phillips

[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.

http://www.seedland.com/ has several pictures of grass types, but you have
to search through the site and they have several broken links.

"Daniel Phillips" wrote in message
...

I'm interested in starting a patch of wildflowers in the lawn.
Problem is, I'm not sure what kind of grass I have, whether it's part
of the natural landscape or if it was planted there at some point.

If you live within driving distance of a
college with a biology or botany department,
dig out a sample (6 x 6 inches) and take it there.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)

I'm interested in starting a patch of wildflowers in the lawn.
Problem is, I'm not sure what kind of grass I have, whether it's part
of the natural landscape or if it was planted there at some point.

If you've got lawn, chances are you don't have native grasses.

Could someone help me out? I'd like to know what grasses, native and
nonative, there are and Google or a group search didn't help out.
Sites that talk all about grasses and have photos should be helpful.

Grasses are often a challenge to identify, especially before they come
into flower and fruit. Probably your best bet is to ask your county
extension for help identifying what's in your lawn... if you do want
to go native, chances are you'll want to nuke the entire lawn and
replant. Some info on common lawn grasses in Alabama:
http://www.ag.auburn.edu/dept/ay/tur..._extension.htm

You might also want to get in touch with the Alabama Wildflower Society:
http://www.alabamawildflower.org/

Kay

On 7 May 2004 02:42:06 GMT, Kay Lancaster wrote:

I'm interested in starting a patch of wildflowers in the lawn.
Problem is, I'm not sure what kind of grass I have, whether it's part
of the natural landscape or if it was planted there at some point.

If you've got lawn, chances are you don't have native grasses.

Could someone help me out? I'd like to know what grasses, native and
nonative, there are and Google or a group search didn't help out.
Sites that talk all about grasses and have photos should be helpful.

Grasses are often a challenge to identify, especially before they come
into flower and fruit. Probably your best bet is to ask your county
extension for help identifying what's in your lawn... if you do want
to go native, chances are you'll want to nuke the entire lawn and
replant. Some info on common lawn grasses in Alabama:
http://www.ag.auburn.edu/dept/ay/tur..._extension.htm

You might also want to get in touch with the Alabama Wildflower Society:
http://www.alabamawildflower.org/

Kay

Thanks.

By having to nuke the entire lawn, does this mean that any attempts at
just making a portion of the lawn wild will cause the march of the
non-native grass on the plot of lawn meant for wild grasses and
flowers?

Daniel Phillips

[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.

By having to nuke the entire lawn, does this mean that any attempts at
just making a portion of the lawn wild will cause the march of the
non-native grass on the plot of lawn meant for wild grasses and
flowers?

Ah, I thought you were going to be establishing a wild lawn, as opposed
to a small bed. My error. Still, depending on the lawn grasses you have,
you may find your new bed being invaded by your lawn. Bermuda grass,
for example, is oft-cussed by gardeners for its invasive properties.
I've not lived in the gulf coast states, so I don't have direct experience
with what you're growing there, but I've certainly done a fair amount of
weeding on newly established prairie plots. Like anything else, if there's
bare soil, a plant will move into it. The ones that preferentially move
into bare soil are generally termed "weedy".

What are you intending to put in this new bed? Will you actually be
using native plants of Alabama, or are you intending to do one of the
"wildflower in a can" mixtures? The reason I ask is that most of the
"wildflower" mixes are actually loaded with Eurasian species that botanists
would term "weeds" because they aren't native, but naturalized... reproducing
here on their own, and many of them are pretty aggressive seeders compared
to trying to establish native perennial plants from seed.

If you're going the true native plant route, you're probably
in for several years of careful weeding -- fewer if you bring in nursery
stock, more if you do it from seed. I'm not saying this to put you off
the project, but to help you spot some of the potential pitfalls that
many advertisers don't tell you about, so you can figure ways around
them, and accomplish what you're trying to do with minimal outlays of
cash and sweat.

Kay

What are you intending to put in this new bed? Will you actually be
using native plants of Alabama, or are you intending to do one of the
"wildflower in a can" mixtures? The reason I ask is that most of the
"wildflower" mixes are actually loaded with Eurasian species that botanists
would term "weeds" because they aren't native, but naturalized... reproducing
here on their own, and many of them are pretty aggressive seeders compared
to trying to establish native perennial plants from seed.

Actually, I had hoped that I would be able to cordon off a portion of
land and sort of just sit back to see what grows, trimming and weeding
to effect. Should have known better to hope that it would be that
simple! But what do you think such a bed would look like in a year or
two if I went that route? Very Tall Grass?

I thought that weeds we commonly pull out of our gardens ARE native
plants. I guess not? Wow, in that case: I didn't realize that we
trashed native species (plant and animal) THAT much! Sad, so even our
native wildflowers are in danger, eh? Interesting that nonative things
always seem to be the most aggressive--I suppose that comes from
hundreds of years of heavy human habitation over in Europe.

I did look on suspiciously at the wildflower mixes I've seen at Home
Depot and all, since they looked different than what I've seen on
nature trails. No recognizable bloodroot, violets, azaelas, etc. Not
to mention that it seemed just too easy! Are at least most sunflowers
native in many areas....say, for example, black oil sunflower commonly
fed to birds?

I had hoped to start from seed, if not from scratch. Maybe nursery
stock would be a better route, but seeds SEEM easier in the short
term.

So is there a good list of common weed garden plants out there on the
web that someone has bookmarked? I found this:
http://www.homestore.com/HomeGarden/...?poe=homestore

It doesn't say what's native or not, unfortunately.

Daniel Phillips

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Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.

Actually, I had hoped that I would be able to cordon off a portion of
land and sort of just sit back to see what grows, trimming and weeding
to effect. Should have known better to hope that it would be that
simple! But what do you think such a bed would look like in a year or
two if I went that route? Very Tall Grass?

Tall grass and weeds, mostly Eurasian, most likely. If you're in
southern Alabama, you may have fun with South American weeds, too.
Stop at any spoils pile that's been sitting around for 6 months or a year,
near a construction site, and you'll get a good idea of what your patch
would look like.


I thought that weeds we commonly pull out of our gardens ARE native
plants. I guess not? Wow, in that case: I didn't realize that we
trashed native species (plant and animal) THAT much! Sad, so even our
native wildflowers are in danger, eh?

Nope, non natives for the most part. Yes, it is sad -- that's also part
of the loss of native insects, birds, snakes, etc. Weeds can also
alter the fire ecology of an area.

Interesting that nonative things
always seem to be the most aggressive--I suppose that comes from
hundreds of years of heavy human habitation over in Europe.

Actually, it's more because species that can reproduce quickly are more
likely to be transported out of their native area (where they are usually
controlled by diseases and animals that use the species), to an area where
they have few or no "enemies". I don't know if you're familiar with
northern lawns, but northern US gardeners spend a lot of time swearing
at dandelions. Big, robust things that seem to takeover overnight. When
I met them in England, they were pale shadows of the species I knew all
too intimately from spending my childhood digging 'em out of the lawn.

Shipping and agriculture increase the chances of accidentally
or on purpose bringing in non-native species.
For instance, johnsongrass was brought in deliberately as cattle forage;
kudzu as chicken feed. Russian thistle was probably introduced in the wool
of imported sheep. Multiflora rose was a rose-grafting understock. Most
Queen Anne's Lace is a descendant of cultivated carrot. Ships used to bring
soil and rocks as ballast, and dump them when they were picking up heavy
cargo. Etc., etc., etc.

There are some weeds that are native to the US -- Canada thistle is
another I'm quite familiar with -- but most natives are kept in some
sort of balance by the rest of the members of their environment.

I did look on suspiciously at the wildflower mixes I've seen at Home
Depot and all, since they looked different than what I've seen on
nature trails. No recognizable bloodroot, violets, azaelas, etc. Not
to mention that it seemed just too easy! Are at least most sunflowers
native in many areas....say, for example, black oil sunflower commonly
fed to birds?

All of the true are sunflowers are native -- they're one of our very few
native species that have made it to agricultural use.

I had hoped to start from seed, if not from scratch. Maybe nursery
stock would be a better route, but seeds SEEM easier in the short
term.

So is there a good list of common weed garden plants out there on the
web that someone has bookmarked? I found this:
http://www.homestore.com/HomeGarden/...?poe=homestore

Further confusing the issue is that a weed that's a big PITA in one area
may not be an issue in another, mostly because of environmental factors.
You'll never hear a Montanan complaining of kudzu, for instance, while
you don't have to worry about garlic mustard (Alliaria petiolaris). Out
here near Portland, OR, some of our worst weeds include Scotch broom,
Himalayan blackberry, and English ivy... all brought in "for pretty", all
now costing millions of dollars to try to control.

Here's a starter list of "portraits of invasive alien species":
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact.htm The two pdfs at the bottom
of the page aren't a bad introduction to weed science.

And here's a report detailing what happens over time as weeds invade:
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact.htm Although it deals with the
western states, the same thing happens in every area -- just change
the names of the plants and the names of the counties.

Want some help picking native species that will do well in your yard,
and look pretty? Look he
http://www.wildflower2.org/index.html and he
http://www.auburn.edu/~deancar/

Kay