Hello,

I recall from a horticulture book that I would have
read around 1978 (how time flies!) that they used the
term "clon" to mean a tree or other plant that's propagated
by asexual reproduction. I think their examples were fruit
trees and the like. The book, if I recall correctly, was a
little out of date even then -- it might have been published
around 1960.

I've searched the web for "clon" but I can't find the term
at all (except in Spanish). I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining it.
Does anyone else remember "clon"? Print references would be
very helpful.

Thanks for your help,
Robert Dodier

Robert Dodier wrote:
Hello,

I recall from a horticulture book that I would have
read around 1978 (how time flies!) that they used the
term "clon" to mean a tree or other plant that's propagated
by asexual reproduction. ...

I think you should be looking for "clone".

cheers,

Marj
--
Marj Tiefert: http://www.mindspring.com/~mtiefert/
Mediterranean Garden Advice and Shop: http://stores.tiefert.com/garden/
In Sunset zone 14-mild

Subject: Use of the term "clon" in horticulture
From: (Robert Dodier)
Date: 5/10/2004 11:43 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Hello,

I recall from a horticulture book that I would have
read around 1978 (how time flies!) that they used the
term "clon" to mean a tree or other plant that's propagated
by asexual reproduction. I think their examples were fruit
trees and the like. The book, if I recall correctly, was a
little out of date even then -- it might have been published
around 1960.

I've searched the web for "clon" but I can't find the term
at all (except in Spanish). I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining it.
Does anyone else remember "clon"? Print references would be
very helpful.

Thanks for your help,
Robert Dodier



They mean clone, not clon. Any asexual reproduction results in a plant which is
a clone of the parent being produced.

-



theoneflasehaddock

The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to produce a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.

On Mon, 10 May 2004 09:43:16 -0700, Robert Dodier wrote:

Hello,

I recall from a horticulture book that I would have
read around 1978 (how time flies!) that they used the
term "clon" to mean a tree or other plant that's propagated
by asexual reproduction. I think their examples were fruit
trees and the like. The book, if I recall correctly, was a
little out of date even then -- it might have been published
around 1960.

I've searched the web for "clon" but I can't find the term
at all (except in Spanish). I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining it.
Does anyone else remember "clon"? Print references would be
very helpful.

Thanks for your help,
Robert Dodier

Look up "clone".

On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:58:38 GMT, figaro opined:

The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to produce a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.

Not always and not usually. Clone of plant matter is generally done by
selective tissue culture. It's a bit different than taking a cutting.

figaro wrote in message ...
The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to produce a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.

probably the largest use of clonal cuttings in the world is in the Tea
industry in Sri Lanka and India.
Hundreds of thousands of tea shoot cuttings are taken from selected
mother bushes and planted in nurseries for rooting. after rooting they
are transferred in to small ploythene nursery bags and nurtured for
about one year till they have develped into 12 inch plants. These
plants are then planted out in the field at about 15000 plants per
hectare. A ten hectare planting will therefore need about 150,000
plants and Sri Lanka plants about 5000 hectares each year.

figaro wrote in message ...
The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to produce a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.


The original word was "clon." I don't know when it was proposed. I
know this because I just happened to pick up a volume of the journal
"Science" from the 1920's or so when I was looking for something in
the library, and I was flipping through it and I came across a small
paragraph entitled "on the use of the word 'clon' in horticulture.
The author was writing to suggest adding an "e" to the word because in
english the long "o" sound is indicated by adding an "e" at the end of
the word. Search the journal "Science" around the 1920's and you
should come across the article.

OOPS! I was off by 15 years. Here are the references for the word
"clon" that I was talking about-

1. New Horticultural and Agricultural Terms (in Shorter Articles)
Herbert J. Webber
Science, New Series, Vol. 18, No. 459. (Oct. 16, 1903), pp.
501-503.


2.
On the Spelling of `Clon.' (in Discussion and Correspondence)
Charles Louis Pollard
Science, New Series, Vol. 22, No. 551. (Jul. 21, 1905), pp.
87-88.

On 5/10/04 9:03 PM, in article ,
"escapee" wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:58:38 GMT, figaro opined:

The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to produce a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.

Not always and not usually. Clone of plant matter is generally done by
selective tissue culture. It's a bit different than taking a cutting.


Nope - scientifically, to clone is to reproduce the parent plant exactly.
Cuttings do just that, just as tissue culture does.
Cheryl

On Tue, 11 May 2004 06:12:47 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
opined:

On 5/10/04 9:03 PM, in article ,
"escapee" wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:58:38 GMT, figaro opined:

The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to produce a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.

Not always and not usually. Clone of plant matter is generally done by
selective tissue culture. It's a bit different than taking a cutting.


Nope - scientifically, to clone is to reproduce the parent plant exactly.
Cuttings do just that, just as tissue culture does.
Cheryl

I said not always and not usually. I didn't say never. When new sports were
found in our greenhouses, we'd do tissue culture clones to assure the
differentiation was still evident in the cloned plant. If cuttings were taken
of said sport, there are significant chances the plant can revert in
characteristic. When cloned by tissue culture you are assured to have the sport
perform as the original sport on the plant you took the culture of.

So, both are correct, but in the industry when something is asexually cloned it
generally means it was reproduced by tissue culture to insure the anomaly.

Victoria

Subject: Use of the term "clon" in horticulture
From: escapee
Date: 5/10/2004 8:03 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:58:38 GMT, figaro opined:

The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to produce a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.

Not always and not usually. Clone of plant matter is generally done by
selective tissue culture. It's a bit different than taking a cutting.



Then please explain to us how a cutting can change the genetic material of the
plant, so that it won't be a clone.

-



theoneflasehaddock

Subject: Use of the term "clon" in horticulture
From: escapee
Date: 5/11/2004 7:26 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 06:12:47 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
opined:

On 5/10/04 9:03 PM, in article ,
"escapee" wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:58:38 GMT, figaro opined:

The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to produce
a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.

Not always and not usually. Clone of plant matter is generally done by
selective tissue culture. It's a bit different than taking a cutting.


Nope - scientifically, to clone is to reproduce the parent plant exactly.
Cuttings do just that, just as tissue culture does.
Cheryl

I said not always and not usually. I didn't say never.

Cuttings are ALWAYS genetically identical to the parent plant. The only way
they would be different is if sexual reproduction is involved. Cuttings are not
sexual reproduction.

When new sports were
found in our greenhouses, we'd do tissue culture clones to assure the
differentiation was still evident in the cloned plant. If cuttings were
taken
of said sport, there are significant chances the plant can revert in
characteristic.

Then it is controlled partially by either age of the plant, or conditions it is
in, not pure genetics.

When cloned by tissue culture you are assured to have the
sport
perform as the original sport on the plant you took the culture of.

No, with cuttings you are assured to have it perform the same as the plant it
came from. With tissue culture, you are assured to have it behave as a young
clone (not a mature clone) of the plant it was taken from.



So, both are correct, but in the industry when something is asexually cloned
it
generally means it was reproduced by tissue culture to insure the anomaly.


I don't know what you mean by anomaly, I assume you mean genetic conditions.

SOme conditions can't be preserved through tissue culture, because they are
caused by the conditions the plant is in. Any genetic conditions are preserved
through both cuttings and tissue culture of meristems.

-

theoneflasehaddock

Then please explain to us how a cutting can change the genetic material of
the
plant, so that it won't be a clone.

It can't.

Many cultivars that have been propagated clonally for years may eventually
lose their vigor when they become infected with viruses due to unsanitary
propagation techniques or infestation of pathogens by insects.

Variegates and other chimeras can occur when the clonally propagated
material are exposed to mutagens in the environment or are deliberately made
to mutate with the use of chemicals.


"theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message
...
Subject: Use of the term "clon" in horticulture
From: escapee
Date: 5/10/2004 8:03 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:58:38 GMT, figaro opined:

The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to
produce a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.

Not always and not usually. Clone of plant matter is generally done by
selective tissue culture. It's a bit different than taking a cutting.



Then please explain to us how a cutting can change the genetic material of
the
plant, so that it won't be a clone.

-



theoneflasehaddock

Victoria,

Your greenhouses must have been in bizarro land. The situation is exactly the
opposite as you describe. A rooted cutting is a clone. Plants raised from rooted
cuttings may show some form of "reversion" but the genetic material that underlies
the reversion came from the mother plant.
On the other hand, tissue culture can produce genetic changes that result in
plants that are genetically different than their parents, hence NOT clones.

--beeky

escapee wrote:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 06:12:47 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
opined:

On 5/10/04 9:03 PM, in article ,
"escapee" wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:58:38 GMT, figaro opined:

The term is "clone" and basically just means taking a cutting to produce a
clone of the original plant with the same genetics and attributes.

Not always and not usually. Clone of plant matter is generally done by
selective tissue culture. It's a bit different than taking a cutting.


Nope - scientifically, to clone is to reproduce the parent plant exactly.
Cuttings do just that, just as tissue culture does.
Cheryl

I said not always and not usually. I didn't say never. When new sports were
found in our greenhouses, we'd do tissue culture clones to assure the
differentiation was still evident in the cloned plant. If cuttings were taken
of said sport, there are significant chances the plant can revert in
characteristic. When cloned by tissue culture you are assured to have the sport
perform as the original sport on the plant you took the culture of.

So, both are correct, but in the industry when something is asexually cloned it
generally means it was reproduced by tissue culture to insure the anomaly.

Victoria