Bush and his religion?
 

"escapee" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:15:53 GMT, "Vox Humana"
opined:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to the
same organization?


This is a true statement. I was walking the neighborhood for our
bi-annual food
drive. I see a man on the block I don't know and walk up to him to hand
him the
flyer with the info on it. He asks me what church this is with. I say, no
church, it's the city food drive for their food pantry. It's all legit.
He
asks where we "fellowship." That must be a buzz word Christians use for
what
church you attend. We say, we are Buddhist practitioners, our garden is
the
church. He then has the audacity to say, and I quote, "So now you know
the big
lie, would you like to know the truth?" Was that a question or an
invitation, I
asked. His response was "You are lost and I can save you." I turned away
and
continued walking.

A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door early on a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have time to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied, "No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and in a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied, "Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I see them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.

Bush and his religion?
 

"John Watson" wrote in message news:I3JDc.191091$Ly.10437@attbi_s01...
"Not-easily-duped" wrote in message
om...
"John Watson" wrote in message
news:zYqDc.115711$eu.76391@attbi_s02...
"Roger Pearse" wrote in message
om...
"'enry VIII" wrote in message
news:NmtBc.87317$0y.76847@attbi_s03...
"John A. Keslick, Jr." wrote in message
...
The bible is fiction, a myth, baloney, made up by sheephearders 2000
years
ago, get over it and get a life!

"The central tenets of Christianity is that Jesus of Nazareth was the
son
of
god, one part of a divine trinity: born of a virgin, he preached to
the
masses, suffered, died on the cross for the sins of man and rose from
the
dead on the third day. This, along with the belief that his birth was
preceded by miraculous events, political intrigue and heralded by
wise-men
form the foundation of the Christian faith. However Christianity is
either
peppered with themes coincidentally similar to much older Eastern
religions,
or these similarities are proof positive that church founders
plagiarized
other faiths: "

This is intellectually illiterate.

But true!

You don't know what truth is then. You must be a jerk!

I may be a jerk but I do know what the truth is and it sure isn't some bible
thumper calling on some Santa Claus like bible character to destroy anyone
that doesn't believe the same bullshit as he does. G

And you are an Asshole! VBG

Then again you must be an asshole for not knowing what asshole means.




John


John

Bush and his religion?
 

Vox Humana wrote:



A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door early on a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have time to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied, "No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and in a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied, "Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I see them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

Bush and his religion?
 

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian pastor? I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with my husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave back merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.


Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

Bush and his religion?
 

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"escapee" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:15:53 GMT, "Vox Humana"
opined:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to
the
same organization?


This is a true statement. I was walking the neighborhood for our
bi-annual food
drive. I see a man on the block I don't know and walk up to him to hand
him the
flyer with the info on it. He asks me what church this is with. I say,
no
church, it's the city food drive for their food pantry. It's all legit.
He
asks where we "fellowship." That must be a buzz word Christians use for
what
church you attend. We say, we are Buddhist practitioners, our garden is
the
church. He then has the audacity to say, and I quote, "So now you know
the big
lie, would you like to know the truth?" Was that a question or an
invitation, I
asked. His response was "You are lost and I can save you." I turned
away
and
continued walking.

A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door early on
a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have time
to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied,
"No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and in a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied, "Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I see
them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and
close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess
saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.

The Jehovah's Witnesses on my side of town are only interested in Spanish
speaking converts. Whenever they rattle the gate, they always ask if any
Spanish speakers are in the house. I always respond, in Spanish, that no
Spanish speakers live here. They say thanks and go away. Works every
time...... }:-)

Bush and his religion?
 

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"escapee" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:15:53 GMT, "Vox Humana"
opined:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to
the
same organization?


This is a true statement. I was walking the neighborhood for our
bi-annual food
drive. I see a man on the block I don't know and walk up to him to
hand
him the
flyer with the info on it. He asks me what church this is with. I
say,
no
church, it's the city food drive for their food pantry. It's all
legit.
He
asks where we "fellowship." That must be a buzz word Christians use
for
what
church you attend. We say, we are Buddhist practitioners, our garden
is
the
church. He then has the audacity to say, and I quote, "So now you
know
the big
lie, would you like to know the truth?" Was that a question or an
invitation, I
asked. His response was "You are lost and I can save you." I turned
away
and
continued walking.

A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door early
on
a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have
time
to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied,
"No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and in
a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied,
"Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I see
them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The
women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and
close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess
saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.

The Jehovah's Witnesses on my side of town are only interested in
Spanish
speaking converts. Whenever they rattle the gate, they always ask if any
Spanish speakers are in the house. I always respond, in Spanish, that no
Spanish speakers live here. They say thanks and go away. Works every
time...... }:-)

I don't know why they are so persistent. As I understand it, they believe
that only 400,000 people will make it to heaven. Surely all the spots are
filled already.

Bush and his religion?
 

In article ,
escapee wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian pastor? I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with my husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave back merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.



Indeed. He is so narrow-minded -- he believes that he is right and you
are wrong, when you, being open-minded, are convinced that he is
wrong and you are right. The difference is obvious. Oh well. So
much for your theory.

billO

Bush and his religion?
 

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

snip
A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door
early
on
a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have
time
to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied,
"No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and
in
a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied,
"Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I
see
them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The
women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and
close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess
saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.

The Jehovah's Witnesses on my side of town are only interested in
Spanish
speaking converts. Whenever they rattle the gate, they always ask if any
Spanish speakers are in the house. I always respond, in Spanish, that no
Spanish speakers live here. They say thanks and go away. Works every
time...... }:-)

I don't know why they are so persistent. As I understand it, they believe
that only 400,000 people will make it to heaven. Surely all the spots are
filled already.

Maybe those who get the most converts get to move up on the waiting
list..... I'm happy that no gringos need apply from my neighbourhood......
When I was about 5 years old, a JW came to the door and wanted a donation
for a copy of the Watchtower. One of the acceptable items was a bar of soap.
When my mother found out what happened, she grabbed me and caught up with
the con artists around the corner. My normally mild-mannered mother reamed
them good for taking advantage of a little boy. That has always stuck with
me.........

Bush and his religion?
 

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
escapee wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob
opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian pastor?
I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with my
husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave back
merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the
American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.



Indeed. He is so narrow-minded -- he believes that he is right and you
are wrong, when you, being open-minded, are convinced that he is
wrong and you are right. The difference is obvious. Oh well. So
much for your theory.

I understand that dogs aren't allowed in heaven. When I die, I want to go
where they go.........

"Dog is my co-pilot"

Bush and his religion?
 

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article 3KJDc.106741$Hg2.55952@attbi_s04,
John Watson wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Vox Humana wrote:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to the
same organization?


The second is that there is great ambiguity in most aspects of
Christianity. Jesus noted that there were really only two rules to
being a Christian: loving God above all else, and loving your neighbor
as yourself.

Yeah right!

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus instructed his followers (Matthew 5:43)

"Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, and do good to those who
hate

you." This might have been a fine lesson if Jesus himself lived up to it.

But when it came to his own enemies, Jesus declared (Luke 19:27), "Take my

enemies, who would not have me rule over them, bring them here, and kill

them before me."



Ah, I see. You do not comprehend what a parable is. You see, a
parable is when someone tells a fictional story in order to illustrate
a point.

Oh, I see, the bible only means what it says when probably interperted by a
Christian! Yeah right!

Guess that's why there is the Catholic Church and 33,000 Protestant cults,
eh?

Did you get everything that you wanted? Or are you going to tell us that it
really doesn't mean what it says?

John 14:13,14: "Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also
do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these,
because I am going to the Father. I will do whatever you ask in my name, so
that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If in my name you ask me for
anything, I will do it."

And I'm sure that you will find the this also doesn't mean what it states:



Luke 10:19: "See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and
scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing will hurt you."

Mark 16:17,18: "And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using
my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will
pick up snakes in their hands, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will
not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover"

LOL

JOHN







In parables, sometimes magic happens, sometimes people can
fly, sometimes things that just don't make sense in a nonfictional
world abound. That's because the story is not supposed to be taken
literally, but instead illustrates a point. In the case of the parable
Luke, contrary to your assertion, Jesus was not giving instruction to
kill; he was telling a story about a stern master. Here's a hint.
When Jesus starts a story with "A man of noble birth went to a distant
country to have himself appointed king and then to return. So he called
ten of his servants and gave them ten minas..." that didn't *really*
happen see. It's a *parable.*


Everything else falls from those two. Most of the things
that people think of when they think of Christian orthodoxy are not
things that Jesus particularly cared about.

Godfrey's conquest of Jerusalem?known as the "First Crusade:"

At the Council of Clermont in 1095 CE, Pope Urban II

Oddly enough, in spite of your contention, Pope Urban II is
not Jesus Christ. Reread my statement.


Other religious nonsense snipped...


And what is your point? That cruel people will do cruel things
under any given flag? Certainly. Do you want a litany of things
done under the flag of atheism and anti-Christian activism? Are
you going to accept the blame for the murder of kulaks under Stalin,
the killing fields of Cambodia, etc. Certainly in the past couple
hundred years, millions more people have been murdered in the name
of atheism than in the name of any deist religion.

Bush and his religion?
 

"escapee" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob
opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian pastor? I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with my
husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave back
merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the
American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.

LOL

John


Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

Bush and his religion?
 

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
escapee wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob
opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian pastor?
I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with my
husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave back
merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the
American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.



Indeed. He is so narrow-minded -- he believes that he is right and you
are wrong, when you, being open-minded, are convinced that he is
wrong and you are right. The difference is obvious. Oh well. So
much for your theory.

I understand that dogs aren't allowed in heaven. When I die, I want to
go
where they go.........

You will, no doubt about it, six feet under or up in smoke, we all gotta
make room for somebody new! ;-)

John

Bush and his religion?
 

"Not-easily-duped" wrote in message
om...
"John Watson" wrote in message
news:I3JDc.191091$Ly.10437@attbi_s01...
"Not-easily-duped" wrote in message
om...
"John Watson" wrote in message
news:zYqDc.115711$eu.76391@attbi_s02...
"Roger Pearse" wrote in message
om...
"'enry VIII" wrote in message
news:NmtBc.87317$0y.76847@attbi_s03...
"John A. Keslick, Jr." wrote in message
...
The bible is fiction, a myth, baloney, made up by sheephearders
2000
years
ago, get over it and get a life!

"The central tenets of Christianity is that Jesus of Nazareth was
the
son
of
god, one part of a divine trinity: born of a virgin, he preached to
the
masses, suffered, died on the cross for the sins of man and rose
from
the
dead on the third day. This, along with the belief that his birth
was
preceded by miraculous events, political intrigue and heralded by
wise-men
form the foundation of the Christian faith. However Christianity is
either
peppered with themes coincidentally similar to much older Eastern
religions,
or these similarities are proof positive that church founders
plagiarized
other faiths: "

This is intellectually illiterate.

But true!

You don't know what truth is then. You must be a jerk!

I may be a jerk but I do know what the truth is and it sure isn't some
bible
thumper calling on some Santa Claus like bible character to destroy
anyone
that doesn't believe the same bullshit as he does. G

And you are an Asshole! VBG

Then again you must be an asshole for not knowing what asshole means.

It's a great definition for morons like you and your ilk! VBG

Bush and his religion?
 

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:bm4Ec.1439$AI.669@attbi_s04...

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
escapee wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob
opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those
unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian
pastor?
I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with
my
husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave back
merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the
American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.



Indeed. He is so narrow-minded -- he believes that he is right and you
are wrong, when you, being open-minded, are convinced that he is
wrong and you are right. The difference is obvious. Oh well. So
much for your theory.

I understand that dogs aren't allowed in heaven. When I die, I want to
go
where they go.........

You will, no doubt about it, six feet under or up in smoke, we all gotta
make room for somebody new! ;-)

When I was little, I read a story of a faraway country where the dead
were placed on towers for the carrion eating birds to dispose of...... I
always kinda liked that direct approach and there are plenty of turkey
buzzards around here..........

Bush and his religion?
 

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:bm4Ec.1439$AI.669@attbi_s04...

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
escapee wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob
opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those
unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian
pastor?
I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with
my
husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave
back
merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the
American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.



Indeed. He is so narrow-minded -- he believes that he is right and
you
are wrong, when you, being open-minded, are convinced that he is
wrong and you are right. The difference is obvious. Oh well. So
much for your theory.

I understand that dogs aren't allowed in heaven. When I die, I want
to
go
where they go.........

You will, no doubt about it, six feet under or up in smoke, we all gotta
make room for somebody new! ;-)

When I was little, I read a story of a faraway country where the dead
were placed on towers for the carrion eating birds to dispose of...... I
always kinda liked that direct approach and there are plenty of turkey
buzzards around here..........

Yeah, that's a good idea, or you could use the bodies for compost or mulch,
no sense wasting good fertilizer! ;-0

John

Bush and his religion?
 

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 02:20:55 GMT, "John Watson" opined:

You will, no doubt about it, six feet under or up in smoke, we all gotta
make room for somebody new! ;-)

John


We are the somebody new. Nothing changes, or is made, or not made. . Form is
void, void is form.


Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

Bush and his religion?
 

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:W59Ec.110409$2i5.22629@attbi_s52...

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:bm4Ec.1439$AI.669@attbi_s04...

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
escapee wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob

opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those
unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian
pastor?
I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling
with
my
husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave
back
merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the
American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.



Indeed. He is so narrow-minded -- he believes that he is right and
you
are wrong, when you, being open-minded, are convinced that he is
wrong and you are right. The difference is obvious. Oh well. So
much for your theory.

I understand that dogs aren't allowed in heaven. When I die, I want
to
go
where they go.........

You will, no doubt about it, six feet under or up in smoke, we all
gotta
make room for somebody new! ;-)

When I was little, I read a story of a faraway country where the dead
were placed on towers for the carrion eating birds to dispose of......
I
always kinda liked that direct approach and there are plenty of turkey
buzzards around here..........

Yeah, that's a good idea, or you could use the bodies for compost or
mulch,
no sense wasting good fertilizer! ;-0

On second thought, being so far up the foodchain to be the repository for
toxic chemicals, human carcasses should probably be processed into benign
constituent parts and the waste photon-torpedoed into the Sun....... I'm
pretty sure that Soylent Green would not be good for the tomatoes..... }:-/

Bush and his religion?
 

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...
On second thought, being so far up the foodchain to be the repository
for
toxic chemicals, human carcasses should probably be processed into benign
constituent parts and the waste photon-torpedoed into the Sun....... I'm
pretty sure that Soylent Green would not be good for the
omatoes..... }:-/

We could all be turned into gemstones and sold on QVC and HSN by Joan Rivers
or Suzanne Summers.
http://www.lifegem.com/index.asp

Bush and his religion?
 

"John Watson" wrote in message news:Kp4Ec.131219$0y.17423@attbi_s03...
"Not-easily-duped" wrote in message
om...
"John Watson" wrote in message
news:I3JDc.191091$Ly.10437@attbi_s01...
"Not-easily-duped" wrote in message
om...
"John Watson" wrote in message
news:zYqDc.115711$eu.76391@attbi_s02...
"Roger Pearse" wrote in message
om...
"'enry VIII" wrote in message
news:NmtBc.87317$0y.76847@attbi_s03...
"John A. Keslick, Jr." wrote in message
...
The bible is fiction, a myth, baloney, made up by sheephearders
2000
years
ago, get over it and get a life!

"The central tenets of Christianity is that Jesus of Nazareth was
the
son
of
god, one part of a divine trinity: born of a virgin, he preached to
the
masses, suffered, died on the cross for the sins of man and rose
from
the
dead on the third day. This, along with the belief that his birth
was
preceded by miraculous events, political intrigue and heralded by
wise-men
form the foundation of the Christian faith. However Christianity is
either
peppered with themes coincidentally similar to much older Eastern
religions,
or these similarities are proof positive that church founders
plagiarized
other faiths: "

This is intellectually illiterate.

But true!

You don't know what truth is then. You must be a jerk!

I may be a jerk but I do know what the truth is and it sure isn't some
bible
thumper calling on some Santa Claus like bible character to destroy
anyone
that doesn't believe the same bullshit as he does. G

And you are an Asshole! VBG

Then again you must be an asshole for not knowing what asshole means.

It's a great definition for morons like you and your ilk! VBG

Herrrrrrrrrr. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Bush and his religion?
 

"Not-easily-duped" wrote in message
om...
"John Watson" wrote in message
news:Kp4Ec.131219$0y.17423@attbi_s03...
"Not-easily-duped" wrote in message
om...
"John Watson" wrote in message
news:I3JDc.191091$Ly.10437@attbi_s01...
"Not-easily-duped" wrote in message
om...
"John Watson" wrote in message
news:zYqDc.115711$eu.76391@attbi_s02...
"Roger Pearse" wrote in message
om...
"'enry VIII" wrote in message
news:NmtBc.87317$0y.76847@attbi_s03...
"John A. Keslick, Jr." wrote in message
...
The bible is fiction, a myth, baloney, made up by sheephearders
2000
years
ago, get over it and get a life!

"The central tenets of Christianity is that Jesus of Nazareth
was
the
son
of
god, one part of a divine trinity: born of a virgin, he preached
to
the
masses, suffered, died on the cross for the sins of man and rose
from
the
dead on the third day. This, along with the belief that his
birth
was
preceded by miraculous events, political intrigue and heralded
by
wise-men
form the foundation of the Christian faith. However Christianity
is
either
peppered with themes coincidentally similar to much older
Eastern
religions,
or these similarities are proof positive that church founders
plagiarized
other faiths: "

This is intellectually illiterate.

But true!

You don't know what truth is then. You must be a jerk!

I may be a jerk but I do know what the truth is and it sure isn't some
bible
thumper calling on some Santa Claus like bible character to destroy
anyone
that doesn't believe the same bullshit as he does. G

And you are an Asshole! VBG

Then again you must be an asshole for not knowing what asshole means.

It's a great definition for morons like you and your ilk! VBG

Herrrrrrrrrr. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Nope, but it does get very embarassing to attempt to communicate with you,
so without further ado:

*PLONK

John

Bush and his religion?
 

In article Dh4Ec.195489$Ly.75907@attbi_s01, John Watson wrote:


Oh, I see, the bible only means what it says when probably interperted by a
Christian! Yeah right!


If the best you can do is deny that a parable is a parable in order
to promote your bigotry, I suggest you take your irrational hatred
elsewhere.


billo

Bush and his religion?
 

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article Dh4Ec.195489$Ly.75907@attbi_s01, John Watson
wrote:


Oh, I see, the bible only means what it says when probably interperted by
a
Christian! Yeah right!


If the best you can do is deny that a parable is a parable in order
to promote your bigotry, I suggest you take your irrational hatred
elsewhere.

Yeah right! It has been noted that you deleted all of the bible quotes that
you couldn't explain away as "parables".

Typical Christian trait, be dishonest and hope that you don't get caught at
it. G

I have no hatred, just don't want people like you preaching a bunch of
nonsense to the uninformed.

Thomas Jefferson and I happen to agree on religious beliefs.

"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who
believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."


-Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782)


And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme
being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable
of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that
the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do
away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and
genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one
he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful
that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have
been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to
them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what
parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence
that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other
parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate
those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814

John

Bush and his religion?
 

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
If the best you can do is deny that a parable is a parable in order
to promote your bigotry, I suggest you take your irrational hatred
elsewhere.


billo

Bill, I have no problem believing that much of the Bible was written in the
form of parables. You cannot imagine the arguments I have had with
fundamentalist Christians when I have suggested that the creation outline of
Genesis, could, without loss of religious significance, simply be
interpreted as a parable intended to show that God took a personal interest
in the development of life on the earth. THAT way of looking at Genesis was
never acceptable to them. Their response was inevitably that the creation
story is meant to be read as the literal "truth" and as the only valid
"scientific" explanation - and internal inconsistencies, such as the two
completely different and mutually incompatible explanations of the creation
of man are glossed over with far-reaching and unconvincing semantic
gymnastics. It creates a problem for those of us who are not hostile to
Christianity, but who would like some acknowledgment that religious issues
and interpretation are not always matters of black and white, right or
wrong, my way or the highway.

Bush and his religion?
 

In article dppEc.1397$XM6.1165@attbi_s53, John Watson wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article Dh4Ec.195489$Ly.75907@attbi_s01, John Watson
wrote:


Oh, I see, the bible only means what it says when probably interperted by
a
Christian! Yeah right!


If the best you can do is deny that a parable is a parable in order
to promote your bigotry, I suggest you take your irrational hatred
elsewhere.

Yeah right! It has been noted that you deleted all of the bible quotes that
you couldn't explain away as "parables".


The bottom line is that your lead example is false. Once you admit
that, I will be happy to move on to the next. The net habit of
throwing out a shotgun list of non-apropos tidbits, pretending
that they all apply to your point, and then jumping from one to
one in order to avoid dealing with your falsehoods is both classic
and easily dealt with. So, rather than jumping around, let's
deal with them one by one.

The first quote is a parable; Jesus did not give the command you
pretend. Once you admit this first falsehood of yours, we can
easily move on to the next.

I have no hatred, just don't want people like you preaching a bunch of
nonsense to the uninformed.

Thomas Jefferson and I happen to agree on religious beliefs.


And to the sexual exploiation of slaves, no doubt.


billo

Bush and his religion?
 

In article ,
gregpresley wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
If the best you can do is deny that a parable is a parable in order
to promote your bigotry, I suggest you take your irrational hatred
elsewhere.


billo

Bill, I have no problem believing that much of the Bible was written in the
form of parables. You cannot imagine the arguments I have had with
fundamentalist Christians when I have suggested that the creation outline of
Genesis, could, without loss of religious significance, simply be
interpreted as a parable intended to show that God took a personal interest
in the development of life on the earth. THAT way of looking at Genesis was
never acceptable to them. Their response was inevitably that the creation
story is meant to be read as the literal "truth" and as the only valid
"scientific" explanation - and internal inconsistencies, such as the two
completely different and mutually incompatible explanations of the creation
of man are glossed over with far-reaching and unconvincing semantic
gymnastics. It creates a problem for those of us who are not hostile to
Christianity, but who would like some acknowledgment that religious issues
and interpretation are not always matters of black and white, right or
wrong, my way or the highway.





The problem is not that you have issues with some fundamentalists. The
problem is that people pretend that one, usually incomplete and
inaccurate, view of fundamentalism represents all "Christians." The
same people are quick to point out that such generalizations are wrong
for other things -- that anybody who sees all Moslems as fundamentalist
islamofascists, or all African-Americans as pimps and crack addicts, or
all Jews as money-grubbing bankers are acting like bigots -- are
equally quick to embrace bigoted characterizations of Christianity.

In fact, Christianity, because of the inherent ambiguities I mentioned,
covers a profoundly broad swath of belief. People who opine about
fundamentalism forget that it is a *reactionary* belief in opposition
to Protestant Christian liberalism that formed the mainstream of the
early 20th century, and that fundamentalism even in itself, covers a
broad range of belief.

I don't ask that you ignore real differences you have with certain
kinds of fundamentalism. As a mystical Christian, I also have a
very hard time with certain tenets of it, and they with me. What
I ask is that you do the same thing that any enlightened person
should do with any broad heterogeneous group. Recognize that it
is broad and heterogeneous. Holding up a crack whore and claiming
that she represents all women, or all members of her race, or all
members of her social class, or all members of her political
affiliation -- **or all members of her religion** -- is simply
a bigoted generalization.

I don't know anything about you. I don't know your religion, your
sex, your race, or where you live. But I bet that I could find
an asshole of any such, and pretend that it represents all people
of your religion, your race, etc. Would it be correct for me to
do so?

People who blather on about Christianity, who drag up pronouncements
from a thousand years ago, who want to characterize modern Christians
by stories from half a millenium ago, who pull out bad examples and
ignore the millions of counterexamples are simple bigots.


billo

Bush and his religion?
 

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:51:04 GMT, "John Watson" wrote:

(snip)
I may be a jerk but I do know what the truth is and it sure isn't some bible
thumper calling on some Santa Claus like bible character to destroy anyone
that doesn't believe the same bullshit as he does. G

Hey, I resent that(on behalf of Santa Claus). That bible character is nothing
like Santa Claus. If you're bad, Santa Claus puts some lumps of coal in your
stocking. No big deal. On the other hand, if that bible character(the one they
call god) decides you aren't worshipping him right or enough he'll send your ass
to the hell he created just for people like you. Not much similarity between
them. If I was going to believe in any sort of gods, I'd prefer to believe in a
good one like Santa Claus rather than an evil one like the christians have.
(snip)

Bush and his religion?
 

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article dppEc.1397$XM6.1165@attbi_s53, John Watson
wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article Dh4Ec.195489$Ly.75907@attbi_s01, John Watson
wrote:


Oh, I see, the bible only means what it says when probably interperted
by
a
Christian! Yeah right!


If the best you can do is deny that a parable is a parable in order
to promote your bigotry, I suggest you take your irrational hatred
elsewhere.

Yeah right! It has been noted that you deleted all of the bible quotes
that
you couldn't explain away as "parables".


The bottom line is that your lead example is false. Once you admit
that, I will be happy to move on to the next. The net habit of
throwing out a shotgun list of non-apropos tidbits, pretending
that they all apply to your point, and then jumping from one to
one in order to avoid dealing with your falsehoods is both classic
and easily dealt with. So, rather than jumping around, let's
deal with them one by one.

The first quote is a parable; Jesus did not give the command you
pretend. Once you admit this first falsehood of yours, we can
easily move on to the next.

My falsehood? It's a biblical quote that I have no interest in altering,
editing or lying about.

It's in the bible (God's reveled word) which seems to mean something
different to each Protestant Christian cult depending on their agenda.

If we can keep this discussion civil we won't bore the readers to death.

A parable is just a story used to illustrate a lesson. It conveys its
meaning by using a comparison analogy. Jesus used a parable to order his
minions to murder the Jews. The results have been horrible, bloodthirsty,
beyond the wildest imagination.

In the image of the parable Jesus told in Luke 19:11-27 (see below), he was
the nobleman who became king. Jesus directed this parable toward the Jewish
people who made up his audience (verses 1-9). These enemy-citizens
represented the Jews who reject Jesus as king. In verse 14 they were called
citizens, but by verse 27, through their rebellious refusal to accept the
nobleman's (Jesus’) kingship, they are now considered enemies. Therefore,
Jesus (the king in the parable) renders a judgment on the unfaithful and
disobedient. Just as Matthew’s Jesus declared, "He who is not with me is
against me . . ." (Matthew 12:30), Luke’s Jesus orders his followers to
murder those who reject his rule?and do it in front of him!

" But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them,
bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27)

Thus Christianity was molded with these words of Jesus for many generations
thereafter. How could Christians ignore Jesus’ call to action when the
Jewish people steadfastly rejected the dead man-god? Christians saw this
parable as a direct call from the lips of Jesus himself, to render a final
judgment on those who dared to reject Jesus?the bloody slaughter of those
who refused to carry the cross.

I have no hatred, just don't want people like you preaching a bunch of
nonsense to the uninformed.

Thomas Jefferson and I happen to agree on religious beliefs.


And to the sexual exploiation of slaves, no doubt.

Slaves? No, I don't own any but the bible doesn't condemn slavery, in fact
it encourges it.


Col 3;
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord
Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the
Lord.
19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing
unto the Lord.
21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not
with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the
inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done:
and there is no respect of persons.

A slave must completely obey and fear his master, even if his master is
cruel and unjust

“Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good
and gentle, but also to the froward" (1 Peter 2:18). "Servants, be obedient
to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and
trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ" (Ephesians 6:5).

Whereas the men in any community invaded must be killed, the women and
children are to be taken as slaves

“And when the Lord thy God hath delivered [a city] into thine hands, thou
shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women,
and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even the
spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of
thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee” (Deuteronomy
20:13-14).

The Age of Reason

I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this
life.

I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties
consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our
fellow-creatures happy.

But, lest it should be supposed that I believe in many other things in
addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the things
I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them.

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman
church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant
church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish,
appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave
mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

Thomas Paine (1794)

John

Bush and his religion?
 

"The Watcher" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:51:04 GMT, "John Watson" wrote:

(snip)
I may be a jerk but I do know what the truth is and it sure isn't some
bible
thumper calling on some Santa Claus like bible character to destroy anyone
that doesn't believe the same bullshit as he does. G

Hey, I resent that(on behalf of Santa Claus). That bible character is
nothing
like Santa Claus. If you're bad, Santa Claus puts some lumps of coal in
your
stocking. No big deal. On the other hand, if that bible character(the one
they
call god) decides you aren't worshipping him right or enough he'll send
your ass
to the hell he created just for people like you. Not much similarity
between
them. If I was going to believe in any sort of gods, I'd prefer to believe
in a
good one like Santa Claus rather than an evil one like the christians
have.
(snip)

LOL

John

Bush and his religion?
 

In article z5EEc.5646$Oq2.4896@attbi_s52, John Watson wrote:
"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...

My falsehood? It's a biblical quote that I have no interest in altering,
editing or lying about.

It's in the bible (God's reveled word) which seems to mean something
different to each Protestant Christian cult depending on their agenda.

If we can keep this discussion civil we won't bore the readers to death.

A parable is just a story used to illustrate a lesson. It conveys its
meaning by using a comparison analogy. Jesus used a parable to order his
minions to murder the Jews. The results have been horrible, bloodthirsty,
beyond the wildest imagination.



Good. At least you are at the point where you recognize that it
was just a story, and that Jesus, in his allegory was not
speaking literally. Nice first step.

So, let's look at your fanciful interpretation of this. Since you
claim that your interpretation represents Christian thought, and
what Jesus "really" meant (an odd claim for someone who doesn't
actually believe that he said anything at all), then you should
have no problem showing that your interpretation of this allegorical
tale does, in fact, represent the thinking as you claim.

Please feel free to show any modern mainstream theologian who
agrees with your interpretation. After all, it doesn't matter
what *you* believe it means -- since you are pretending that
it represents what *Christians* believe, you should be able
to document that.

I await your sources. Here, since we are talking about
Protestants, I'll give you a list:

Please provide a mainstream Baptist theologian who interprets it the
way you pretend:

Please provide a mainstream Lutheran:

Please provide a mainstream Methodist:

Please provide a mainstream Anglican:

Please provide a mainsream Presbyterian:


Go ahead.


billo

Bush and his religion?
 

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article z5EEc.5646$Oq2.4896@attbi_s52, John Watson
wrote:
"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...

My falsehood? It's a biblical quote that I have no interest in altering,
editing or lying about.

It's in the bible (God's reveled word) which seems to mean something
different to each Protestant Christian cult depending on their agenda.

If we can keep this discussion civil we won't bore the readers to death.

A parable is just a story used to illustrate a lesson. It conveys its
meaning by using a comparison analogy. Jesus used a parable to order his
minions to murder the Jews. The results have been horrible, bloodthirsty,
beyond the wildest imagination.



Good. At least you are at the point where you recognize that it
was just a story, and that Jesus, in his allegory was not
speaking literally. Nice first step.

Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

Well I'm not going to play your little game, you don't make the rules.

The fact of the matter is that passage was used by Christians to murder
millions of innocent men, women and children.

Putting the burden of proof on me to show that mainstream Protestants didn't
endorse it, doesn't change the fact that it did happen.

You are probably a Baptist with an agenda that includes bashing Catholics
and will probably try to blame them for all of the Christian atrocities.

A Christian is a Christian is a Christian, I don't care which cult they
identify with or endorse.

Your dead-man "God" also said:
Luke 14:
25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto
them,
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife,
and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he
cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my
disciple


"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his
creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who
is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the
individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such
thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism".


Albert Einstein


"A man is accepted into church for what he believes -- and turned out for
what he knows.".


Mark Twain



John

Bush and his religion?
 

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:nfKEc.7736$%_6.7019@attbi_s01...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to
people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

We all seek confirmation of our supernatural beliefs (or lack of) from
others, it is just human nature. Some just lack the strength to coexist
with others who believe they are wrong. The problem gets exquisite when one
raises his children to "believe" and either he or they changes their mind
about that belief.

The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped in
"confirmation."

Bush and his religion?
 

"Blue" wrote in message ...

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:nfKEc.7736$%_6.7019@attbi_s01...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to
people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

We all seek confirmation of our supernatural beliefs (or lack of) from
others, it is just human nature. Some just lack the strength to coexist
with others who believe they are wrong. The problem gets exquisite when
one
raises his children to "believe" and either he or they changes their mind
about that belief.

The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped in
"confirmation."

I agree with most of your post but not that "this is a biblical country".

The founding fathers were for the most part Deists.

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of
the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting
"Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus
Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the
great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of
its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the
Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for
Religious Freedom

It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I
then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor
capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825

James Madison:

What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of
the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty
have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.
John

Bush and his religion?
 

You are correct in that both Washington and Jefferson were not bible
believers. However both made many references to "god" - Washington even
regularly attended church and associated with clerics - and that was
enough to baffle the citizens into believing they were bible believers.
Yes, other "founding fathers" were also non -believers (Franklin and Paine)
but they did not hold national elected office. Paine went so far as to
ridicule the bible yet believe in "god" and was widely referred to even in
this day as an infidel.

The fact is that this government has never in our entire history had a
member of the federal government who was not a "believer" in biblical
mythology or a liar who said or implied (as above) that he was . That
makes America a de-facto theocracy.

It goes even deeper than that as your chances of any elected job anywhere is
nil if you identify yourself as a non-believer in the Jewish god system.

Workmen quite often put religious identifications on their trucks, yellow
page ads, etc. Doesn't hurt and might help but NOBODY goes around
publically identifying himself as a non-believer and that most certainly
includes our founding fathers. That is just not healthy.

Non-believers are thus effectively disenfranshised in America as they lack
the needed power base of Judeo-Christianity. Without that no amount of
qualification will do.


"John Watson" wrote in message
news:CnMEc.5882$wY5.491@attbi_s54...

"Blue" wrote in message
...

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:nfKEc.7736$%_6.7019@attbi_s01...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to
people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

We all seek confirmation of our supernatural beliefs (or lack of) from
others, it is just human nature. Some just lack the strength to
coexist
with others who believe they are wrong. The problem gets exquisite when
one
raises his children to "believe" and either he or they changes their
mind
about that belief.

The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no
one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped
in
"confirmation."

I agree with most of your post but not that "this is a biblical country".

The founding fathers were for the most part Deists.

Bush and his religion?
 

"Blue" wrote in message ...
You are correct in that both Washington and Jefferson were not bible
believers. However both made many references to "god" - Washington even
regularly attended church and associated with clerics - and that was
enough to baffle the citizens into believing they were bible believers.
Yes, other "founding fathers" were also non -believers (Franklin and
Paine)
but they did not hold national elected office. Paine went so far as to
ridicule the bible yet believe in "god" and was widely referred to even in
this day as an infidel.

I think that they both were fairly open about their being Deists.


The fact is that this government has never in our entire history had a
member of the federal government who was not a "believer" in biblical
mythology or a liar who said or implied (as above) that he was . That
makes America a de-facto theocracy.

I was a member of the federal government for many years, or do you mean an
elected official?


It goes even deeper than that as your chances of any elected job anywhere
is
nil if you identify yourself as a non-believer in the Jewish god system.

Probably, but the times, they are changing.

Workmen quite often put religious identifications on their trucks, yellow
page ads, etc. Doesn't hurt and might help but NOBODY goes around
publically identifying himself as a non-believer and that most certainly
includes our founding fathers. That is just not healthy.

True.

Non-believers are thus effectively disenfranshised in America as they lack
the needed power base of Judeo-Christianity. Without that no amount of
qualification will do.

Probably.

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:CnMEc.5882$wY5.491@attbi_s54...

"Blue" wrote in message
...

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:nfKEc.7736$%_6.7019@attbi_s01...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to
people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

We all seek confirmation of our supernatural beliefs (or lack of) from
others, it is just human nature. Some just lack the strength to
coexist
with others who believe they are wrong. The problem gets exquisite
when
one
raises his children to "believe" and either he or they changes their
mind
about that belief.

The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no
one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped
in
"confirmation."

I agree with most of your post but not that "this is a biblical country".

The founding fathers were for the most part Deists.

Bush and his religion?
 

In article nfKEc.7736$%_6.7019@attbi_s01, John Watson wrote:


Good. At least you are at the point where you recognize that it
was just a story, and that Jesus, in his allegory was not
speaking literally. Nice first step.

Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

Well I'm not going to play your little game, you don't make the rules.


In other words, your bigoted representation is wrong, and you
cannot back it up.


The fact of the matter is that passage was used by Christians to murder
millions of innocent men, women and children.



Well, then, you will have no problem showing a modern mainstream
Protestant denomination that interprets the parable the way
you say they do. Here, one more time:

Name one mainstream Baptist theologian or denomination that does:
Name one mainstream Methodist theologian or denomination that does:
Name one mainstream Presbyterian theologian or denomination that does:
Name one mainstream Anglican theologian or denomination that does:
Name one mainstream Lutheran theologian or denomination that does:

Putting the burden of proof on me to show that mainstream Protestants didn't
endorse it, doesn't change the fact that it did happen.


In fact, asking you to prove your bizarre claims is exactly appropriate.
You have been making bigoted statements about Christianity, you have
been making broad generalizations about what Christians believe. It
is entirely reasonable to ask that you back up your claim. You
have provided an interpretation of a parable and represented it as
the "Christian" view. The burden of proof is *yours* to show that
it is.

You are probably a Baptist with an agenda that includes bashing Catholics
and will probably try to blame them for all of the Christian atrocities.

A Christian is a Christian is a Christian, I don't care which cult they
identify with or endorse.


No, most bigots cannot see outside their stereotyped generalizations.
That's rather the point.


billo

Bush and his religion?
 

In article , Blue wrote:

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:nfKEc.7736$%_6.7019@attbi_s01...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to
people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

We all seek confirmation of our supernatural beliefs (or lack of) from
others, it is just human nature. Some just lack the strength to coexist
with others who believe they are wrong. The problem gets exquisite when one
raises his children to "believe" and either he or they changes their mind
about that belief.


You shouldn't be so hard on John. He can't seem to help his
narrow-mindedness.


The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped in
"confirmation."


No, the "cockiness" comes from knowing that John is lying, and knowing
that it is easy to show the lie. But, hey, if you want to show he
is telling the truth, please feel free to provide the examples supporting
his claim:

Please provide one mainstream Bapist theologian or
denomination that promotes his interpretation:

Please provide one mainstream Lutheran:

Please provide one mainstream Anglican:

Please provide one mainstream Methodist:

Please provide one mainstream Presbyterian:



billo

Bush and his religion?
 

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:36:12 -0700, "Blue" opined:

We all seek confirmation of our supernatural beliefs (or lack of) from
others, it is just human nature. Some just lack the strength to coexist
with others who believe they are wrong. The problem gets exquisite when one
raises his children to "believe" and either he or they changes their mind
about that belief.

The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped in
"confirmation."

Actually, this is a free country where we can practice any religion we want.
It's not a Christian country. However, the religious right who starts wars with
people in the middle east based on what God says in that Israel must be in order
for the messiah to return...oh forget it. Bunch of kooks.


Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

Bush and his religion?
 

"Blue" wrote in message ...
You are correct in that both Washington and Jefferson were not bible
believers. However both made many references to "god" - Washington even
regularly attended church and associated with clerics - and that was
enough to baffle the citizens into believing they were bible believers.
Yes, other "founding fathers" were also non -believers (Franklin and
Paine)
but they did not hold national elected office. Paine went so far as to
ridicule the bible yet believe in "god" and was widely referred to even in
this day as an infidel.

I think that they both were fairly open about their being Deists.


The fact is that this government has never in our entire history had a
member of the federal government who was not a "believer" in biblical
mythology or a liar who said or implied (as above) that he was . That
makes America a de-facto theocracy.

I was a member of the federal government for many years, or do you mean an
elected official?


It goes even deeper than that as your chances of any elected job anywhere
is
nil if you identify yourself as a non-believer in the Jewish god system.

Probably, but the times, they are changing.

Workmen quite often put religious identifications on their trucks, yellow
page ads, etc. Doesn't hurt and might help but NOBODY goes around
publically identifying himself as a non-believer and that most certainly
includes our founding fathers. That is just not healthy.

True.

Non-believers are thus effectively disenfranshised in America as they lack
the needed power base of Judeo-Christianity. Without that no amount of
qualification will do.

Probably.

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:CnMEc.5882$wY5.491@attbi_s54...

"Blue" wrote in message
...

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:nfKEc.7736$%_6.7019@attbi_s01...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to
people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

We all seek confirmation of our supernatural beliefs (or lack of) from
others, it is just human nature. Some just lack the strength to
coexist
with others who believe they are wrong. The problem gets exquisite
when
one
raises his children to "believe" and either he or they changes their
mind
about that belief.

The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no
one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped
in
"confirmation."

I agree with most of your post but not that "this is a biblical country".

The founding fathers were for the most part Deists.

Bush and his religion?
 

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article nfKEc.7736$%_6.7019@attbi_s01, John Watson
wrote:


Good. At least you are at the point where you recognize that it
was just a story, and that Jesus, in his allegory was not
speaking literally. Nice first step.

Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to
people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

Well I'm not going to play your little game, you don't make the rules.


In other words, your bigoted representation is wrong, and you
cannot back it up.

You call me bigoted when you attempt to blame all Christian evil on the
Catholics.

You are a bible thumping Baptist, hater's of anyone that disagreed with your
putrid Protestant cult.

Won't work bilbo boy, shifting the burden to me isn't the way we play this
game.


The fact of the matter is that passage was used by Christians to murder
millions of innocent men, women and children.

Putting the burden of proof on me to show that mainstream Protestants
didn't
endorse it, doesn't change the fact that it did happen.

Told you I'm not going to play your silly game. As a Baptist you would
dearly love to blame the Catholics for all Christian evil, won't work, silly
boy.

In fact, asking you to prove your bizarre claims is exactly appropriate.

Nothing bizarre, it is recorded history, unlike the bible.

You have been making bigoted statements about Christianity,

Not bigoted, just the truth! G

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every
opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if
there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of
blindfolded fear". (from The Life and Selected Writings of Thomas Jefferson)

Thomas Jefferson


You are probably a Baptist with an agenda that includes bashing Catholics
and will probably try to blame them for all of the Christian atrocities.

A Christian is a Christian is a Christian, I don't care which cult they
identify with or endorse.

No, most bigots cannot see outside their stereotyped generalizations.
That's rather the point.

That sure is the point and as a Baptist you fit the description of a bigot.

"The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never
give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."

"...Let us discard all this quibbling about this man and the other man--this
race and that race and the other race being inferior, and therefore they
must be placed in and inferior position...Let us discard all these things,
and unite as one people throughout this land, until we shall once more stand
up declaring that all men are created equal." Speech, Chicago, Illinois,
July 10, 1858

Abraham Lincoln


John

Bush and his religion?
 

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article , Blue wrote:

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:nfKEc.7736$%_6.7019@attbi_s01...

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
Why are Christians always so arrogant, cocky and just plain nasty to
people
who don't accept their fairy tale as fact?

We all seek confirmation of our supernatural beliefs (or lack of) from
others, it is just human nature. Some just lack the strength to coexist
with others who believe they are wrong. The problem gets exquisite when
one
raises his children to "believe" and either he or they changes their mind
about that belief.


You shouldn't be so hard on John. He can't seem to help his
narrow-mindedness.

He was explaining your narrow-mindedness, not mind. G


The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped in
"confirmation."


No, the "cockiness" comes from knowing that John is lying, and knowing
that it is easy to show the lie.

Show me where I am lying, you can't, you and your Baptist agenda are both
bullshit! G

But, hey, if you want to show he
is telling the truth, please feel free to provide the examples supporting
his claim:

Hahaha, bilbo boy not wants to shift the burden of proof to Blue!

Headline: He/she is not going to play your game of shift the burden either!

"However sugarcoated and ambiguous, every form of authoritarianism must
start with a belief in some group's greater right to power, whether that
right is justified by sex, race, class, religion, or all four. However far
it may expand, the progression inevitably rests on unequal power and
airtight roles within the family."
"It's an incredible con job when you think about it, to believe something
now in exchange for something after death. Even corporations with their
reward systems don't try to make it posthumous."

Gloria Steinem


John