In article ,
Salty Thumb wrote:
Are they are shoots from adjacent plants or wind blown seeds? I also
get rye encroachment from the lawn in one bed, but they are harassed by a
weed whacker and pulled if they make it past the brick edging. Never had
the rye grow up from under the fabric though.

All of the above actually ; I get a ton of maple seedlings, some adjacent
plants, and some hardy creatures around the edges, out of the garden. I
don't get grass though ; Don't have any of that ;

I don't know what zone. I just look at the little map on the seed
packets, I'm right at a line in SE Virginia. When the weeds grew on top,
weren't they easily picked off?

Here's a regional zone map:

http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/hzm-ne1.html

If you're in SE Virginia, you're probably in 7b more-or-less ;

As far as the weeds go, I can't say that I noticed any major difference
between removing weeds from the garden mulch, and removing weeds from the
garden path, with the landscape fabric. If you get to them early enough,
they're almost always removeable ;

I've got a couple of rose bushes. Sedums, chrysanthemums, coleus (dead)
the rest I might be able to identify if I saw the names. I did not pick
out most of the plants, but I do remember buying a dianthus whatever that
is.

Dianthus is the family that carnations come from ; I haven't grown them
myself since watching 'Jeanne de Florette' - it's an amazing movie,
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091288/] but it's created odd personal
references for me ; They are lovely flowers though ;

I don't know, I've seen feeder roots stapling the fabric to ground. I
didn't think it was all that hard to pull off, and if needed I think I
could have severed them easily from below with a broad knife. Other
parts of the fabric I looked at recently don't have the feeder roots and
comes off easily. I don't use the landscape fabric pegs, the mulch and
edging seems to hold it down well enough.

*blink*

Personally I prefer to not chop the roots off of my plants unless it's
absolutely necessary - or am I misunderstanding you?

I'm glad that your mulch holds the fabric down though - it's such a
pain trying to chase your fabric down the street ; I had a rather
dismal experience trying to sort out landscape fabric in the wind - it
made me think I was heading to Oz ;

Well sure if you are planting a bunch of annuals maybe fabric isn't such
a good idea. The thing I don't like about laying newspaper is it is
like Tara, Gone With The Wind. I tried it for killing grass, I guess it
works okay. But I really like the fact that landscape fabric doesn't
decay and I don't have soil and mulch all mixed in together. It makes
moving the mulch around easier. Sure it's a little clumsy if you want to
move a hole, but if you just make X slits in the fabric, you can just
close the X back up and still get most of the protection without needing
to patch it with another piece.

Heh. I just put mulch on top of the newspaper - problem solved ;

As far as I'm concerned, having my mulch decay into the soil, and being
able to regularly enrich my soil with compost or manure is also a big
plus. I'd much rather use natural fertilizers than cupfuls of the
purchased chemicals ;

Heh. Your garden area is clearly much, much smaller than mine ; I
think I'm in the 7 cu yd of mulch realm by now - and I've added
another 6 cu ft of mulch to the small [10x6 triangle] bed in the front
to top up the mulch that's settled over the winter.

Ha, you just got a big ole flower garden don't you? Mine it's just a
couple of flower beds in front of the house, each probably 4'x25'. I
think I may have used between 1 and 2 cu. yards total mulch.

Huh. We must clearly mulch rather differently. I usually have a layer
that's between 3 and 4 inches deep, but my math says that you couldn't
be putting much more than an inch down.

I'm using shreaded wood these days - since I've got a [mostly] shade
garden, I'm not growing anything edible, and I'm getting my mulch from
the city [basically you show up with bags and a shovel, and take as
much as you want]. It's been working out nicely ;

Vanity does inspire me to use commercial pine mix on the front garden
though, just to have everything match ;

.... but wandering back to the mulch - with that thin of a layer, you'd
have to end up using landscape fabric [or something] underneath to prevent
weeds.

Ah well. Different folks, different gardening I suppose.

I should probably turn this into a totally different post, but has anybody
had much experience moving the black plastic composters around while
they were [presumably] active, without making a major mess?

For reasons that totally and completely escape me, the previous owner of
the house put the compost right beside the deck ; Hmmm. Now that I think
about it, she smoked like a chimney, so she probably couldn't smell it ;

That explains [some of] it ;

cheers!
--
================================================== ========================
"A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound
desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to
avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."

Cat wrote:

I should probably turn this into a totally different post, but has
anybody
had much experience moving the black plastic composters around while
they were [presumably] active, without making a major mess?

For reasons that totally and completely escape me, the previous owner
of
the house put the compost right beside the deck ; Hmmm. Now that I
think
about it, she smoked like a chimney, so she probably couldn't smell it
;


If you're talking about a bottomless bin, the only practical way of
moving it is to pull it up off the pile inside, move it, and then shovel
and wheelbarrow the contents to the new location, and reload it.

But if your compost bin has an odor, something is wrong. Either there's
not enough carbon material, and the nitrogen rich material is rotting,
and/or it's not being aerated enough. Perhaps it's become too compact
because of too much moisture. A wet, sloppy pile of kitchen waste is
going to smell for all these reasons.

So the act of taking off the plastic bin, and moving the pile is going
to help with your smell problem.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Get Black and Decker Landscaping Tools He
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blac...ker/index.html

(Cat) wrote in
:

In article ,
Salty Thumb wrote:
Are they are shoots from adjacent plants or wind blown seeds? I
also get rye encroachment from the lawn in one bed, but they are
harassed by a weed whacker and pulled if they make it past the brick
edging. Never had the rye grow up from under the fabric though.

All of the above actually ; I get a ton of maple seedlings, some
adjacent plants, and some hardy creatures around the edges, out of the
garden. I don't get grass though ; Don't have any of that ;

You're talking about the helicopter things right? I get those too, but
this year it was mostly in the spring. There was a hurricane that came
through last year, and I'm not sure the maples have recovered (in case
they normally drop in the fall). I have a feeling that the wimpy ones
just die on their own, and by the time I get around to it, only the
really stubborn ones are left and they are no match for the Salty Thumb
of Death.

I don't know what zone. I just look at the little map on the seed
packets, I'm right at a line in SE Virginia. When the weeds grew on
top, weren't they easily picked off?

Here's a regional zone map:

http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/hzm-ne1.html

If you're in SE Virginia, you're probably in 7b more-or-less ;

Thanks, I don't know if I want to bother though. You've got your USDA
zones and then you've got your Sunset Western zones and then you've got
your global warming.

As far as the weeds go, I can't say that I noticed any major
difference between removing weeds from the garden mulch, and removing
weeds from the garden path, with the landscape fabric. If you get to
them early enough, they're almost always removeable ;

I've got a couple of rose bushes. Sedums, chrysanthemums, coleus
(dead) the rest I might be able to identify if I saw the names. I did
not pick out most of the plants, but I do remember buying a dianthus
whatever that is.

Dianthus is the family that carnations come from ; I haven't grown
them myself since watching 'Jeanne de Florette' - it's an amazing
movie, [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091288/] but it's created odd
personal references for me ; They are lovely flowers though ;

I'll keep a look out for it, not that je pourrai comprendre (pas?). I'd
also be a little more interested if it is actually Jeanne and not Jean.
8-D

I don't know, I've seen feeder roots stapling the fabric to ground. I
didn't think it was all that hard to pull off, and if needed I think I
could have severed them easily from below with a broad knife. Other
parts of the fabric I looked at recently don't have the feeder roots
and comes off easily. I don't use the landscape fabric pegs, the
mulch and edging seems to hold it down well enough.

*blink*

Personally I prefer to not chop the roots off of my plants unless it's
absolutely necessary - or am I misunderstanding you?

okay, first of all, as a wise woman (hi Nathalie) once said
(paraphrasing): Men are like elephants in the garden. I was thinking
more if you wanted to get rid of the landscape fabric (and the plants
around it), you could just cut the roots. I don't know where the feeder
roots were coming from, I just conveniently thought they were from the
plants I covered up and didn't want anyway. But I guess if you were
going lift the fabric up to stuff some compost or something down there,
you'd have to find another way. I don't know if it's a problem, because
I sure don't see the roots everywhere.

I'm glad that your mulch holds the fabric down though - it's such a
pain trying to chase your fabric down the street ; I had a rather
dismal experience trying to sort out landscape fabric in the wind -
it made me think I was heading to Oz ;

oh, come on, it can't be any worse than newspaper as far as blowing away
goes.

Well sure if you are planting a bunch of annuals maybe fabric isn't
such a good idea. The thing I don't like about laying newspaper is
it is like Tara, Gone With The Wind. I tried it for killing grass, I
guess it works okay. But I really like the fact that landscape fabric
doesn't decay and I don't have soil and mulch all mixed in together.
It makes moving the mulch around easier. Sure it's a little clumsy if
you want to move a hole, but if you just make X slits in the fabric,
you can just close the X back up and still get most of the protection
without needing to patch it with another piece.

Heh. I just put mulch on top of the newspaper - problem solved ;

As far as I'm concerned, having my mulch decay into the soil, and
being able to regularly enrich my soil with compost or manure is also
a big plus. I'd much rather use natural fertilizers than cupfuls of
the purchased chemicals ;

My flower bed is like the tough side of town. They ain't get no compost,
they ain't get no fertilizer, they ain't get no water, they ain't get no
nothing. I figure most of the stuff they sell in garden centers are
pretty robust and will grow like weeds if you feed them, so I don't.

Heh. Your garden area is clearly much, much smaller than mine ; I
think I'm in the 7 cu yd of mulch realm by now - and I've added
another 6 cu ft of mulch to the small [10x6 triangle] bed in the
front to top up the mulch that's settled over the winter.

Ha, you just got a big ole flower garden don't you? Mine it's just a
couple of flower beds in front of the house, each probably 4'x25'. I
think I may have used between 1 and 2 cu. yards total mulch.

Huh. We must clearly mulch rather differently. I usually have a layer
that's between 3 and 4 inches deep, but my math says that you couldn't
be putting much more than an inch down.

You are probably right about my depth. I figure one nugget is close
enough to 1" thick. So I spread them out like that. If I saw any black
fabric, I added more. Then I distributed the leftovers more or less
uniformly.

I'm using shreaded wood these days - since I've got a [mostly] shade
garden, I'm not growing anything edible, and I'm getting my mulch from
the city [basically you show up with bags and a shovel, and take as
much as you want]. It's been working out nicely ;

Vanity does inspire me to use commercial pine mix on the front garden
though, just to have everything match ;

haha, yes I know about vanity, too embarassed

... but wandering back to the mulch - with that thin of a layer, you'd
have to end up using landscape fabric [or something] underneath to
prevent weeds.

Well, yeah. I figured I'd spend less with the fabric and a thin layer
and occasional replenishment for wind loss than I would without the
fabric and repeated additions of mulch due to decay and wind loss or
newspaper + decay and wind loss. Plus I really don't like digging to
plant something and turning up mud covered nuggets onto the surface, in
which case I would feel obligated to hose the nugget off, only to make
more mud. Plus plus I think it helps keep the slug population low ... if
they want to live in Nuggetville, they'll take the long way out of town
for vacations.

Ah well. Different folks, different gardening I suppose.

I should probably turn this into a totally different post, but has
anybody had much experience moving the black plastic composters around
while they were [presumably] active, without making a major mess?

I don't actually remember doing it, but I think if it's not ready, it'll
clump together (depending on what's inside) and you then can shovel or
fork it in a wheelbarrow and move it to another location (or just leave
it in the wheelbarrow until it's ready). This is with one of those semi-
conical Earth Machines. Oh yeah, my pile wasn't so big, though. After
being packed with leaves it got down to less than 1 foot.

For reasons that totally and completely escape me, the previous owner
of the house put the compost right beside the deck ; Hmmm. Now that
I think about it, she smoked like a chimney, so she probably couldn't
smell it ;

Compost isn't supposed to smell bad. But having the bin nearby makes it
convenient, but then you have a little ecosystem nearby.

In article ,
Salty Thumb wrote:
(Cat) wrote in
:
You're talking about the helicopter things right? I get those too, but
this year it was mostly in the spring. There was a hurricane that came
through last year, and I'm not sure the maples have recovered (in case
they normally drop in the fall). I have a feeling that the wimpy ones
just die on their own, and by the time I get around to it, only the
really stubborn ones are left and they are no match for the Salty Thumb
of Death.

Yup. Maple Keys is what they get called around here ; If I left mine
alone, I'd have a forest instead of a garden ; We've got some huge
trees here ;

Thanks, I don't know if I want to bother though. You've got your USDA
zones and then you've got your Sunset Western zones and then you've got
your global warming.

Heh. I find that it's worthwhile to me - but I do like to try and grow
unusual plants, and it sucks to pay $30+ on a plant that promptly dies
on you ;

Dianthus is the family that carnations come from ; I haven't grown
them myself since watching 'Jeanne de Florette' - it's an amazing
movie, [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091288/] but it's created odd
personal references for me ; They are lovely flowers though ;

I'll keep a look out for it, not that je pourrai comprendre (pas?). I'd
also be a little more interested if it is actually Jeanne and not Jean.
8-D

It's Jeanne ; Jean would be a different gender ;

okay, first of all, as a wise woman (hi Nathalie) once said
(paraphrasing): Men are like elephants in the garden. I was thinking
more if you wanted to get rid of the landscape fabric (and the plants
around it), you could just cut the roots. I don't know where the feeder
roots were coming from, I just conveniently thought they were from the
plants I covered up and didn't want anyway. But I guess if you were
going lift the fabric up to stuff some compost or something down there,
you'd have to find another way. I don't know if it's a problem, because
I sure don't see the roots everywhere.

Ahhh ; Heh. I was thinking "get rid of the landscape fabric, leave the
plants ;

I'm glad that your mulch holds the fabric down though - it's such a
pain trying to chase your fabric down the street ; I had a rather
dismal experience trying to sort out landscape fabric in the wind -
it made me think I was heading to Oz ;
oh, come on, it can't be any worse than newspaper as far as blowing away
goes.

Damp newspaper's pretty good about staying in place ; Damp landscape
fabric just covers me in droplets ;.

My flower bed is like the tough side of town. They ain't get no compost,
they ain't get no fertilizer, they ain't get no water, they ain't get no
nothing. I figure most of the stuff they sell in garden centers are
pretty robust and will grow like weeds if you feed them, so I don't.

Ahhh. Totally different ways of gardening then ; I think of myself as
a pretty lazy gardener - but I do water and mulch my plants - helps
them to grow better imho.

Well, yeah. I figured I'd spend less with the fabric and a thin layer
and occasional replenishment for wind loss than I would without the
fabric and repeated additions of mulch due to decay and wind loss or
newspaper + decay and wind loss. Plus I really don't like digging to
plant something and turning up mud covered nuggets onto the surface, in
which case I would feel obligated to hose the nugget off, only to make
more mud. Plus plus I think it helps keep the slug population low ... if
they want to live in Nuggetville, they'll take the long way out of town
for vacations.

Heh. Fair 'nuf ; Different methods *grin*

I don't actually remember doing it, but I think if it's not ready, it'll
clump together (depending on what's inside) and you then can shovel or
fork it in a wheelbarrow and move it to another location (or just leave
it in the wheelbarrow until it's ready). This is with one of those semi-
conical Earth Machines. Oh yeah, my pile wasn't so big, though. After
being packed with leaves it got down to less than 1 foot.

It's on my list for today [once I get over the ants, that is]

For reasons that totally and completely escape me, the previous owner
of the house put the compost right beside the deck ; Hmmm. Now that
I think about it, she smoked like a chimney, so she probably couldn't
smell it ;

Compost isn't supposed to smell bad. But having the bin nearby makes it
convenient, but then you have a little ecosystem nearby.

I know ; It's been pretty badly neglected though - and tends to *sigh*

My preferred way to deal with the compost involves having a small bucket
inside that I empty as it fills up, rather than rushing outside all the
time. Much less annoying ; In garden, of course, it doesn't matter
how close the composter is to the back door ;

cheers!
--
================================================== ========================
"A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound
desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to
avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."

(Cat) wrote in
:

Yup. Maple Keys is what they get called around here ; If I left
mine alone, I'd have a forest instead of a garden ; We've got some
huge trees here ;

Judging from your ant picture you've got much more of a maple problem than
me. I've got one or two right next to the house, but they are only 5 (or
so) years old. But I'm not finding tons of half rotted seeds at this time
of year.

Dianthus is the family that carnations come from ; I haven't grown
them myself since watching 'Jeanne de Florette' - it's an amazing
movie, [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091288/] but it's created odd
personal references for me ; They are lovely flowers though ;

I'll keep a look out for it, not that je pourrai comprendre (pas?).
I'd also be a little more interested if it is actually Jeanne and not
Jean. 8-D

It's Jeanne ; Jean would be a different gender ;

Yes, hence my variable interest. The link you gave is for "Jean de
Florette", staring Gewaaad Deparrdooo, whom I do not think would look very
good in a sun dress. Or is it one of those "The Crying Game" things?

My flower bed is like the tough side of town. They ain't get no
compost, they ain't get no fertilizer, they ain't get no water, they
ain't get no nothing. I figure most of the stuff they sell in garden
centers are pretty robust and will grow like weeds if you feed them,
so I don't.

Ahhh. Totally different ways of gardening then ; I think of myself as
a pretty lazy gardener - but I do water and mulch my plants - helps
them to grow better imho.

I will throw them a bone if they look droopy, but for the flowers at least,
I let Mother Nature do her thing.

In article ,
Salty Thumb wrote:
(Cat) wrote in
:
Judging from your ant picture you've got much more of a maple problem than
me. I've got one or two right next to the house, but they are only 5 (or
so) years old. But I'm not finding tons of half rotted seeds at this time
of year.

Heh. The healthy one in the back is about 14 1/2 feet around - the less
healthy one is probably only about 8-or-so feet around ; I have seeds
-everywhere- The fall is... well - everything falls ; I need to find
a nice compact leaf shredder this year.

It's Jeanne ; Jean would be a different gender ;
Yes, hence my variable interest. The link you gave is for "Jean de
Florette", staring Gewaaad Deparrdooo, whom I do not think would look very
good in a sun dress. Or is it one of those "The Crying Game" things?

Hrm. No - maybe I've got it confused with the sequel, 'Manon de Source'.
Either way - they're both good films, and there's good scenery of
several sort ;

I will throw them a bone if they look droopy, but for the flowers at least,
I let Mother Nature do her thing.

Heh. Fair 'nuf ;

cheers!
--
================================================== ========================
"A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound
desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to
avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."