I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will never be
used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden with
small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any ideas on
the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on plants
which woud be easy care?

Shell

"Weeble" wrote in message
...

I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will
never be
used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden
with
small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any
ideas on
the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on
plants
which woud be easy care?

Try post at rec.ponds, most of the water garden people are there.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

In article , "Weeble"
wrote:

I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will never be
used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden with
small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any ideas on
the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on plants
which woud be easy care?

Shell

A vendor at the Lavender Festival this past weekend was selling the most
artfully designed all-copper garden pools with all-copper waterfalls. Most
were shiny new copper, some were coated in verdigris, tastefully arranged
to give the impression of waves or moving water. Gorgeous, gorgeous,
gorgeous. And toxic.

A small amount of copper in an aquatic environment is probably of minimal
harmfulness -- like old pennies tossed into a pool with koi, not the best
thing to do, but not sure death either. But the entirety of the soil or
water content of a pool or marsh container being copper? Bad! Bad!

The vendor promised "no algae" but failed to mention "no fish" & "no
plants." They did however also sell waterlilies, irises, & cattails made
of brass, bronze, & copper.

The reason algae doesn't get started so easily in an all-copper pool is
because copper suppresses plant growth. It will be VERY harmful to
waterlilies. It will also kill fish, molluscs, & amphibians. Copper water
features which are for water exclusively, no flora & no fauna, will stay
clear for longer periods of time. If flora & fauna is to be incorporatged
into the pool, then copper is exactly the wrong thing.

Build up of heavy metals in water or in perepetually wet soil is extremely
slow because copper is surprisingly stable in its solid form -- build up
is faster when in contact with soil or fish poops or in circulating highly
oxygenated water. However, verdigris is very UNstable & would cause swift
toxicity, not inconceivably sufficient toxicity to harm a dog, bird, or
child that drank from such a pond (anything above 2 mg copper per liter of
water is considered safe to drink). But if such a pool were drained &
cleaned monthly, I'd wager it would be safe. I'd much rather not have a
copper fountain to begin with.

Copper pools further increase electrocution risks when pumps or lights or
filters or extension cord or anything electrical is in any way connected
to or touching the pool. You think the toaster in the glass bathtub trick
is a good way to kill someone, wait till your hand brushes against even a
dry spot along the edge of a copper pool when the pump gets a short in it.


As an aside, I don't know how deep your firepit waterlily pond would be,
but waterlilies need some pretty deep water to survive, a firepit that
deep would be rather unusual.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:20:59 GMT, "Weeble" wrote:

I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will never be
used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden with
small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any ideas on
the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on plants
which woud be easy care?

Shell



Copper is poisonous to fish. And without a couple small fish in your
small water garden, you will need to take extra precautions about
breeding mosquitoes. You could line the copper fire pit with a rubber
or vinyl membrane which should be safer for fish. Given the right
conditions with plenty of sunlight, most water plants are easy care.
I have parrot feather, three water lilies, screw rush, striped rush,
elodea (anacharis), water hyacinth, and mint. Cattail and azola are
growing too, and very invasive. All of these have overwintered in
zone 7, although the hyacinth usually freezes out.

I realised after I posted that copper is toxic to fish and other critters
(smacking self on head) The local home stores sell nice large pots and
plastic ponds so I wil probably go that route and use the copper fire pit as
a fountain with a rock garden. Of course a small reflecting pool and
fountain would be pretty too.

Thanks for all the information and help

Shell
"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , "Weeble"
wrote:

I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will never
be
used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden with
small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any ideas
on
the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on
plants
which woud be easy care?

Shell

A vendor at the Lavender Festival this past weekend was selling the most
artfully designed all-copper garden pools with all-copper waterfalls. Most
were shiny new copper, some were coated in verdigris, tastefully arranged
to give the impression of waves or moving water. Gorgeous, gorgeous,
gorgeous. And toxic.

A small amount of copper in an aquatic environment is probably of minimal
harmfulness -- like old pennies tossed into a pool with koi, not the best
thing to do, but not sure death either. But the entirety of the soil or
water content of a pool or marsh container being copper? Bad! Bad!

The vendor promised "no algae" but failed to mention "no fish" & "no
plants." They did however also sell waterlilies, irises, & cattails made
of brass, bronze, & copper.

The reason algae doesn't get started so easily in an all-copper pool is
because copper suppresses plant growth. It will be VERY harmful to
waterlilies. It will also kill fish, molluscs, & amphibians. Copper water
features which are for water exclusively, no flora & no fauna, will stay
clear for longer periods of time. If flora & fauna is to be incorporatged
into the pool, then copper is exactly the wrong thing.

Build up of heavy metals in water or in perepetually wet soil is extremely
slow because copper is surprisingly stable in its solid form -- build up
is faster when in contact with soil or fish poops or in circulating highly
oxygenated water. However, verdigris is very UNstable & would cause swift
toxicity, not inconceivably sufficient toxicity to harm a dog, bird, or
child that drank from such a pond (anything above 2 mg copper per liter of
water is considered safe to drink). But if such a pool were drained &
cleaned monthly, I'd wager it would be safe. I'd much rather not have a
copper fountain to begin with.

Copper pools further increase electrocution risks when pumps or lights or
filters or extension cord or anything electrical is in any way connected
to or touching the pool. You think the toaster in the glass bathtub trick
is a good way to kill someone, wait till your hand brushes against even a
dry spot along the edge of a copper pool when the pump gets a short in it.


As an aside, I don't know how deep your firepit waterlily pond would be,
but waterlilies need some pretty deep water to survive, a firepit that
deep would be rather unusual.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

I realised after I posted how toxic copper is, so scratch that idea. Maybe
a reflecting pool with a small fountain or a rock garden with a fountain
will be nice. With heat indexes in the 100's fire in the fire pit is
definitely out

Thanks for the help and information

Shell
"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:20:59 GMT, "Weeble" wrote:

I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will never
be
used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden with
small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any ideas
on
the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on
plants
which woud be easy care?

Shell



Copper is poisonous to fish. And without a couple small fish in your
small water garden, you will need to take extra precautions about
breeding mosquitoes. You could line the copper fire pit with a rubber
or vinyl membrane which should be safer for fish. Given the right
conditions with plenty of sunlight, most water plants are easy care.
I have parrot feather, three water lilies, screw rush, striped rush,
elodea (anacharis), water hyacinth, and mint. Cattail and azola are
growing too, and very invasive. All of these have overwintered in
zone 7, although the hyacinth usually freezes out.

Weeble wrote:
I realised after I posted how toxic copper is, so scratch that idea. Maybe
a reflecting pool with a small fountain or a rock garden with a fountain
will be nice. With heat indexes in the 100's fire in the fire pit is
definitely out

Thanks for the help and information

Shell
"Phisherman" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:20:59 GMT, "Weeble" wrote:


I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will never

be

used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden with
small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any ideas

on

the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on

plants

which woud be easy care?

Shell



Copper is poisonous to fish. And without a couple small fish in your
small water garden, you will need to take extra precautions about
breeding mosquitoes. You could line the copper fire pit with a rubber
or vinyl membrane which should be safer for fish. Given the right
conditions with plenty of sunlight, most water plants are easy care.
I have parrot feather, three water lilies, screw rush, striped rush,
elodea (anacharis), water hyacinth, and mint. Cattail and azola are
growing too, and very invasive. All of these have overwintered in
zone 7, although the hyacinth usually freezes out.





It's probably OK for scaly fish, but it would likely kill any snails,
shrimp, or other aquatic invertebrates.

The solubility of copper is very low, and people throw pennies into
fountains all the time without killing the fish. But copper would not
be my first choice of materials for a pond.

Best regards,
Bob

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:20:59 GMT, "Weeble" wrote:

===I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will never be
===used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden with
===small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any ideas on
===the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on plants
===which woud be easy care?
===
===Shell
===


Well if its not leak proof just solder the joints, easy task to do.
Other than making sure it doe sot leak it ought to make one fine
looking water garden especialy when it starts to get the green color
or blueish color from ageing. Copper and fish do not exactly get along
so don;t add any fish or they more than likely will croak.

Copper is an easy metal to work with and any piping or such you may
want to add can easily be soldered or brazed in place. I wold
certainly keep everything copper as much as possible so it al ages the
same color unlike cheap PVC........which would be very distractfull on
a solid copper container IMHO.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

You might ask your questions to


www.backyard-lifestyle.com
and
www.bestpondstuff.com

both are excellant for pond and fountain ideas.

I hope this helps,
Norman


On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:20:59 GMT, "Weeble" wrote:

I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will never be
used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden with
small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any ideas on
the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on plants
which woud be easy care?

Shell

In article ,
wrote:

You might ask your questions to


www.backyard-lifestyle.com
and
www.bestpondstuff.com

both are excellant for pond and fountain ideas.

Since you have also been aggressively promoting your sales of bogus
ultrasonic devices, I personally wouldn't trust that anything else you
attempted to sell would work any better.

Honest, competent companies do not spam on UseNet.

-paggers

I hope this helps,
Norman


On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:20:59 GMT, "Weeble" wrote:

I have a copper fire pit which has never been used and likely will never be
used for fire. I would like to turn it into a small water garden with
small waterlily and a few other plants and a small fountain. Any ideas on
the suitability of the copper for a water garden? And any ideas on plants
which woud be easy care?

Shell


--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com