[I was hoping for more discussion. "Volcanoes" bad, but how about this
below? Anyone?]

Our local park has pecan trees growing in topsoil-depleted, compacted,
limestone rock and sand, high PH. The trees apparently survived by a
sprinkler system, that became defunct years ago. Rain runs off before much
soaks into the well draining "soil". The trees are suffering with more ends
of their limbs dying off each year.

Here's what we did. We ringed the trunk with fence to protect the root
flare, and added a 18' diameter fence around that. We have about a foot of
slowly composting, damp but not soggy, leaves inside the fence. We're also
covering the rest of the park with composted wood mulch.
The advantages of retaining soil moisture, getting some biota going,
especially worms, and getting organic nutrients into the soil were our
primary goals.
Given your concerns, do any apply to our experiment?

"Mike LaMana" fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote in message
...
Deciduous trees have adapted to dealing with some accumulation of leaves,
and in fact befit form the reduced competition that derives from leaf fall
in forests.

The practice of suffocating the landscape with artificial concentrations
of
leaves has ramifications to which native trees are not necessarily
adapted:
Increased rot at the root collar; girdling of smaller trees by rodents
living in the warm, decaying piles; anoxia of the soil as the leaves turn
to
snotty slime ( in some cases);changes in soil pH not usual for woodland
settings; binding of nitrogen d=from the soil as decay of all the carbon
in
the leaves drains local resources, etc.

In short...usually not a good thing. Your neighbors should mimic nature
more. When was the last time you noticed leaves naturally heaping
themselves
into volcanoes about trees??

ML

--
Mike LaMana, MS, CTE
Heartwood Consulting Services, LLC
Toms River, NJ
www.HeartwoodConsulting.net

As stated in the previous posting, composting leaves will
actually draw nitrogen from the surrounding soil. So I would recommend first
composting
the leaves separately and then applying them, after break down, to the
tree area. That foot of leaves is mostly air and will not give a large amount
of insulation, as would
previously composted material. Chopped up leaves would help
a bit to compact the layer. Although its a lot of work, you should loosen the
compacted dirt around the drip line
of the trees to allow nutrients to enter more easily, being careful not to
damage any of the tree roots in the process.
If the soil contains a lot of sand, it should make loosening of the soil an
easier task. You might
also want to add some slow decomposing fertilizer, like cow manure, to restore
the
soil, mixing it into the top layer of soil. Here in the Midwest, our clay soil
has poor drainage,
and so I have to add sand to my trees.

Sherwin D.

cat daddy wrote:

[I was hoping for more discussion. "Volcanoes" bad, but how about this
below? Anyone?]

Our local park has pecan trees growing in topsoil-depleted, compacted,
limestone rock and sand, high PH. The trees apparently survived by a
sprinkler system, that became defunct years ago. Rain runs off before much
soaks into the well draining "soil". The trees are suffering with more ends
of their limbs dying off each year.

Here's what we did. We ringed the trunk with fence to protect the root
flare, and added a 18' diameter fence around that. We have about a foot of
slowly composting, damp but not soggy, leaves inside the fence. We're also
covering the rest of the park with composted wood mulch.
The advantages of retaining soil moisture, getting some biota going,
especially worms, and getting organic nutrients into the soil were our
primary goals.
Given your concerns, do any apply to our experiment?

"Mike LaMana" fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote in message
...
Deciduous trees have adapted to dealing with some accumulation of leaves,
and in fact befit form the reduced competition that derives from leaf fall
in forests.

The practice of suffocating the landscape with artificial concentrations
of
leaves has ramifications to which native trees are not necessarily
adapted:
Increased rot at the root collar; girdling of smaller trees by rodents
living in the warm, decaying piles; anoxia of the soil as the leaves turn
to
snotty slime ( in some cases);changes in soil pH not usual for woodland
settings; binding of nitrogen d=from the soil as decay of all the carbon
in
the leaves drains local resources, etc.

In short...usually not a good thing. Your neighbors should mimic nature
more. When was the last time you noticed leaves naturally heaping
themselves
into volcanoes about trees??

ML

--
Mike LaMana, MS, CTE
Heartwood Consulting Services, LLC
Toms River, NJ
www.HeartwoodConsulting.net

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
As stated in the previous posting, composting leaves will
actually draw nitrogen from the surrounding soil. So I would recommend
first
composting
the leaves separately and then applying them, after break down, to the
tree area.

I wish I could compost seperately, but it's not really practical. I'm
also thinking there's not much in the way of nutrients to leach.

That foot of leaves is mostly air and will not give a large amount
of insulation, as would
previously composted material. Chopped up leaves would help
a bit to compact the layer.

Hmmm, insulation here in Texas is more about keeping the ground cool and
moist. Given Mike's concern about anoxia, I'm thinking that leaving it as
fluffy as I can might be something to consider.

Although its a lot of work, you should loosen the
compacted dirt around the drip line
of the trees to allow nutrients to enter more easily, being careful not to
damage any of the tree roots in the process.

Aaachhh!!!! Although a great idea (for someone else with a shovel), the
area has the greatest traffic because of the shade of the trees. I also
should have mentioned that this is a leash-free dogpark. Lots of little
feet........
When damp the soil absorbs well, but when dried out, it's like concrete.
Actually, it is primitive concrete...........

If the soil contains a lot of sand, it should make loosening of the soil
an
easier task. You might
also want to add some slow decomposing fertilizer, like cow manure, to
restore
the
soil, mixing it into the top layer of soil.

I'd like to do that in the Spring. I don't know how to explain that to
the other park users, though....... I'm hoping for an invasion of earthworms
to do most of the dirty work.

Thanks for your comments.

Here in the Midwest, our clay soil
has poor drainage,
and so I have to add sand to my trees.

Sherwin D.

cat daddy wrote:

[I was hoping for more discussion. "Volcanoes" bad, but how about this
below? Anyone?]

Our local park has pecan trees growing in topsoil-depleted,
compacted,
limestone rock and sand, high PH. The trees apparently survived by a
sprinkler system, that became defunct years ago. Rain runs off before
much
soaks into the well draining "soil". The trees are suffering with more
ends
of their limbs dying off each year.

Here's what we did. We ringed the trunk with fence to protect the
root
flare, and added a 18' diameter fence around that. We have about a foot
of
slowly composting, damp but not soggy, leaves inside the fence. We're
also
covering the rest of the park with composted wood mulch.
The advantages of retaining soil moisture, getting some biota going,
especially worms, and getting organic nutrients into the soil were our
primary goals.
Given your concerns, do any apply to our experiment?

"Mike LaMana" fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote in message
...
Deciduous trees have adapted to dealing with some accumulation of
leaves,
and in fact befit form the reduced competition that derives from leaf
fall
in forests.

The practice of suffocating the landscape with artificial
concentrations
of
leaves has ramifications to which native trees are not necessarily
adapted:
Increased rot at the root collar; girdling of smaller trees by
rodents
living in the warm, decaying piles; anoxia of the soil as the leaves
turn
to
snotty slime ( in some cases);changes in soil pH not usual for
woodland
settings; binding of nitrogen d=from the soil as decay of all the
carbon
in
the leaves drains local resources, etc.

In short...usually not a good thing. Your neighbors should mimic
nature
more. When was the last time you noticed leaves naturally heaping
themselves
into volcanoes about trees??

ML

--
Mike LaMana, MS, CTE
Heartwood Consulting Services, LLC
Toms River, NJ
www.HeartwoodConsulting.net

cat daddy wrote:
I also
should have mentioned that this is a leash-free dogpark.
snip
You might
also want to add some slow decomposing fertilizer, like cow manure,
to
restore the soil, mixing it into the top layer of soil.
snip
I'd like to do that in the Spring. I don't know how to explain that
to
the other park users, though.......


"I'm sorry, sir, but you'll have to compost your dog manure before
spreading it. Fresh isn't allowed."

"Warren" wrote in message
news:uiYld.613264$8_6.179504@attbi_s04...
cat daddy wrote:
I also
should have mentioned that this is a leash-free dogpark.
snip
You might
also want to add some slow decomposing fertilizer, like cow manure,
to
restore the soil, mixing it into the top layer of soil.
snip
I'd like to do that in the Spring. I don't know how to explain that
to
the other park users, though.......


"I'm sorry, sir, but you'll have to compost your dog manure before
spreading it. Fresh isn't allowed."

g Yeah, some people even asked if the leaf piles were where we should
put the dog poop. As least they asked.......... }:-/
Speaking of fresh, it would be amusing (for a while) to see which dogs
have that penchant for rolling in stinky stuff. After they chase me down and
corner me in the back of the park, it might be less amusing......