In article ,
says...
So freedom is the right to adversely affect the lives of others just because
you happen to be standing on property you own?

BS! Almost everything we do has a beneficial affect on some and an
adverse affect on others. We have zoning laws to keep a business from
going up in a residential neighborhood. We have noise and junk
abatement laws. And that's about as much interference with property
rights as there should be. If I want to chop down all my trees and
plant pink flamingos, that's my business.


The situations need to be considered on their own merits, and in
whole. The ownership of the land involved may be a factor in who can
initiate consideration of the situation. It may, in some situations, be the
most important consideration. But it shouldn't always be the most important

And folks say that socialism is dead :-).

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

"lgb" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
So freedom is the right to adversely affect the lives of others just
because
you happen to be standing on property you own?

BS! Almost everything we do has a beneficial affect on some and an
adverse affect on others. We have zoning laws to keep a business from
going up in a residential neighborhood. We have noise and junk
abatement laws. And that's about as much interference with property
rights as there should be. If I want to chop down all my trees and
plant pink flamingos, that's my business.

Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on
his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there
was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc?

"Doug Kanter" expounded:

Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on
his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there
was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc?

When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a
junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin
sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I
loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've
cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when
it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating,
drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not
paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my
business.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" expounded:

Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car
on
his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason,
there
was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc?

When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a
junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin
sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I
loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've
cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when
it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating,
drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not
paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my
business.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

You are so right!

My neighbor across the back fence has at least half a dozen rusted out old
cars in his back yard. They were there when I move in and the neighbor nor
his junk cars has caused me any problems in the last three years.

The man I bought this property from said he had checked with the local
government and as long as the vehicles are hidden by a front fence, they can
do nothing about it.

Except for the junk cars, he keeps his home and yard in nice condition.

As I mentioned in a previous post, many things could be much worst.

In article ,
"Hound Dog" wrote:

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" expounded:

Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car
on
his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason,
there
was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc?

When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a
junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin
sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I
loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've
cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when
it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating,
drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not
paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my
business.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

You are so right!

My neighbor across the back fence has at least half a dozen rusted out old
cars in his back yard. They were there when I move in and the neighbor nor
his junk cars has caused me any problems in the last three years.

The man I bought this property from said he had checked with the local
government and as long as the vehicles are hidden by a front fence, they can
do nothing about it.

Except for the junk cars, he keeps his home and yard in nice condition.

As I mentioned in a previous post, many things could be much worst.

Another way of looking at is the Garden concept of borrowed scenery.
Some time you can include mount Fuji in your garden view. I'd hazard a
guess not many of us can. So we plant according.
No rusting junk about here just many bored barking dogs.

Bill

--
Garden Shade Zone 5 in a Japanese Jungle manner.
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constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided
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material is distributed without profit.

William Wagner writes:
No rusting junk about here just many bored barking dogs.
worse than junk in my opinion... you can look away/go inside to get
away from junk... barking will penetrate the walls.
(ok.. so you can use earplugs... but that's more excessive i think)

sigh..

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

Don't you have an animal control resource, and local ordnances which address
barking dogs?


"Philip Lewis" wrote in message
...
William Wagner writes:
No rusting junk about here just many bored barking dogs.
worse than junk in my opinion... you can look away/go inside to get
away from junk... barking will penetrate the walls.
(ok.. so you can use earplugs... but that's more excessive i think)

sigh..

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" expounded:

Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car
on
his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason,
there
was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc?

When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a
junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin
sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I
loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've
cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when
it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating,
drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not
paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my
business.

How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the neighbors
had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell. What
if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people
interested in looking let alone making an offer? The offers you do get are
low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business because
the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to sell.

"Vox Humana" expounded:

How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the neighbors
had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell. What
if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people
interested in looking let alone making an offer?

Well, obviously there are people out there who don't care - like me -
who will buy a house because they like the house. I'd appreciate
those kind of neighbors, that shows they'll keep their noses in their
own business and not mind mine. I don't see it as a huge hinderance.

The offers you do get are
low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business because
the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to sell.

You are completely ignoring what I initially said - I did buy a house
with a messy yard next door. The people who were selling this house
NEEDED to sell it, and I bought it. And there were other offers on
the very same house. So, I guess that shoots a few holes into your
argument.

If you're so worried about other people's homes, then you belong in a
nice managed neighborhood. Please stay there, and don't move next
door to me, trying to tell me how to live my life. I promise I won't
move next door to you and try to run yours.

--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Vox Humana" expounded:

How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the
neighbors
had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell.
What
if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people
interested in looking let alone making an offer?

Well, obviously there are people out there who don't care - like me -
who will buy a house because they like the house. I'd appreciate
those kind of neighbors, that shows they'll keep their noses in their
own business and not mind mine. I don't see it as a huge hinderance.

The offers you do get are
low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business
because
the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to
sell.

You are completely ignoring what I initially said - I did buy a house
with a messy yard next door. The people who were selling this house
NEEDED to sell it, and I bought it. And there were other offers on
the very same house. So, I guess that shoots a few holes into your
argument.

If you're so worried about other people's homes, then you belong in a
nice managed neighborhood. Please stay there, and don't move next
door to me, trying to tell me how to live my life. I promise I won't
move next door to you and try to run yours.


I'm just pointing out that in a free market, when you reduce demand you also
reduce the value. Reducing demand doesn't mean that there is no demand
although it could, and the timing of the sale could be critical. Also, just
because you can find an exception to a rule, it doesn't dismiss the concept.
Every neighbor that sells, no matter how slovenly, has magically decided to
clean-up their place. The door gets painted. The trim gets painted.
Flowers are planted. The windows are washed. The yard is mowed and
trimmed. Funny how people who don't give a damn for 5 years suddenly "get
it" when they decide to sell. Do you suppose it is because it increases the
value of their house or is it due to some unexplained compulsion to clean
and paint?

As for moving next to you, it would be the last thing I would ever consider.
I'm not worried about the homes of others. I just don't want inconsiderate
slobs, people operating meth labs, or acid-rock band rehearsals in my
neighborhood. I would be perfectly content if these things occurred in your
neighborhood because even slobs and drug deals have to live somewhere. I
suspect that you would be a hideous neighbor, bitching about everything
bothered you. I would laugh if a pig farm moved next to you. Remember, you
don't pay the mortgage or taxes so the stench would be none of your
business. One man's stench is another's junk yard. Enjoy.

"Vox Humana" expounded:

As for moving next to you, it would be the last thing I would ever consider.
I'm not worried about the homes of others. I just don't want inconsiderate
slobs, people operating meth labs, or acid-rock band rehearsals in my
neighborhood. I would be perfectly content if these things occurred in your
neighborhood because even slobs and drug deals have to live somewhere. I
suspect that you would be a hideous neighbor, bitching about everything
bothered you. I would laugh if a pig farm moved next to you. Remember, you
don't pay the mortgage or taxes so the stench would be none of your
business. One man's stench is another's junk yard. Enjoy.

Meth labs. Inconsiderate slobs. Nice. You are another one who
resorts to insults when you're losing your argument. I hope you learn
to be more tolerant of those who have different views than you do.
But I'm pretty sure you're incapable of it.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
. ..

snippage

As for moving next to you, it would be the last thing I would ever
consider.
I'm not worried about the homes of others. I just don't want
inconsiderate
slobs, people operating meth labs, or acid-rock band rehearsals in my
neighborhood. I would be perfectly content if these things occurred in
your
neighborhood because even slobs and drug deals have to live somewhere. I
suspect that you would be a hideous neighbor, bitching about everything
bothered you. I would laugh if a pig farm moved next to you. Remember,
you
don't pay the mortgage or taxes so the stench would be none of your
business. One man's stench is another's junk yard. Enjoy.

Whoa, where do you get that she's a "hideous" neighbor"? "Even slobs and
drug dealers have to live somewhere" -- WTF? Everything she's written here
suggests exactly the opposite -- live and let live without getting in
someone else's business. No offense, but from my perspective as someone
just reading this thread, you have degenerated into histrionic flaming for
no reason.

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
. ..

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" expounded:

Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old
car
on
his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason,
there
was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence,
etc?

When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a
junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin
sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I
loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've
cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when
it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating,
drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not
paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my
business.

How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the
neighbors
had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell.
What
if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people
interested in looking let alone making an offer? The offers you do get
are
low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business because
the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to
sell.



I feel your pain and I'd not be too thrilled either, but I agree that at the
end of the day, they can do whatever the hell they want. It's their
property and their mortgage. Until I start paying it, it's none of my
business.

Couldn't agree more. We had just such a situation in our neighborhood.
Neighbor of junker got fed up with looking at the crud. Even tho it was in
violation of city ordinances, the city only stopped the problem
temporarily -- over and over again. The junker's neighbor got a low ball
price for his home.

Anyone have any good solutions?

Suzy O

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
. ..

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" expounded:

Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car
on
his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason,
there
was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc?

When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a
junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin
sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I
loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've
cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when
it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating,
drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not
paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my
business.

How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the
neighbors
had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell.
What
if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people
interested in looking let alone making an offer? The offers you do get
are
low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business because
the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to
sell.

In some towns, you can actually speak to the town judge, outside of a
courtroom setting. Push him/her to take the law to its most extreme
conclusion, which MAY involve having the town remove the junk and place a
lien on the neighbor's home. Some judges will also issue injunctions to
force people to obey the law. That gives the cops the ability to take them
away in handcuffs.


"Suzy O" wrote in message
...
Couldn't agree more. We had just such a situation in our neighborhood.
Neighbor of junker got fed up with looking at the crud. Even tho it was
in
violation of city ordinances, the city only stopped the problem
temporarily -- over and over again. The junker's neighbor got a low ball
price for his home.

Anyone have any good solutions?

Suzy O

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
. ..

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" expounded:

Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old
car
on
his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason,
there
was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence,
etc?

When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a
junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin
sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I
loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've
cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when
it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating,
drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not
paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my
business.

How would you have felt if you needed to sell your house while the
neighbors
had a virtual junkyard? I don't mean WANT to sell, but NEED to sell.
What
if, due to the trashy neighbors, you found that there were few people
interested in looking let alone making an offer? The offers you do get
are
low-balls. That is a situation where it does become your business
because
the junk reduces your property value or makes your house impossible to
sell.