wrote in message
oups.com...
Every year from the beginning (3rd year) there is a section of the lawn
that is naturally brownish, weedy and thin with the other parts of the
lawn respectable. Ironically, my "fantasy" of a perfect lawn exists
right up against this "crappy" section....imagine this 3 acres of lawn:
most = respectable; 1 section = crappy; 1 section = "perfect"...of
course this "perfect" section is right up against the bad (weird).

Anyways....when I go to Lowes and come back with my fertilizer (gets
expensive for 3 acres) after about a week the entire lawn looks great
including the "crappy" section then about 6 weeks later I'm back to:
good, bad, perfect and the cycle begins again. This cycle has lasted 3
years.

Question: How does a person make their lawn permanently "good" instead
of going through the cycles of using fertilizer? I know it's possible
somehow since I have that one really good section and most of my lawn
is respectable without using any fertilizer.

Of course the answer might be: what the heck is the difference between
that: "perfect" section compared to that "crappy" section!

Both sections in full sun, relatively flat and same seed...for that
matter my whole yard is this situation.

My only thought (doesn't sound like fun) is to kill all the grass in
the "crappy" section; till it up, shovel up some "top" soil (if that's
what is), dump it by the railroad tracks , and bring in some new top
soil from somewhere that looks "good", finally reseed.

if you are going to get your soil tested leave it about 3 months after you
have applied any fertiliser or lime.

The answer to your question lies in your soil. You can apply any amount of
fertilisers however if your soil is shit most likely will be your lawn. You
can test the soil and alter the ph if necessary. Thats one part of the
equation. IMO, and its only my opinion but based on reading and
experimentation with my own lawn. The basis of soil care is to get things in
balance and growing conditions, drought or flood tolerance (within reason),
pest resistance etc all flows from there. For example, humus (partly decayed
organic matter in the soil) hangs on to water during dry conditions and lets
it run away better druing wet conditions.

Using artifical fertilisers you effectively feed the plant but not the soil.
Moreover some fertilisers are quick hit rather than slow release.
effectively giving your lawn a quick nitrogen fix but leaving nothing when
it goes cold turkey. If the fertiliser is available too quickly much of it
will be lost in heavy rain. A slow release fertiliser makes nutrients
available slowly as the fertiliser breaks down through decomposition in the
soil.

My view, cut out the synthetic fertilisers and as much weed spray as
possible (altogether if possible). Concentrate on getting the soil food web
working and that will work in harmony with any ph adjustment you make and
adding nutrients to make up any trace element deficency identified in your
soil test.

Simple things such as using a mulching mower that cuts up the lawn clippings
finely and distributes them evenly through your lawn. This encourages worms
and other micro-organisms to feed and stimulates the complex web or
organisms in your soil that makes nutrients available to plants. It also
recycles any nutrients in your soil back in to the source (a form of closed
cycle) reducing the need to add inputs such as fertiliser in to the soil.

Soil can become dead. The microbal/microscopic life forms are killed, muched
reduced in number or starved of organic material. Conventional farming
seeks, for want of a better term, to add chemical fertilisers in to soil to
artifically stimulate plants. A simplistic explaination is that they bypas
the soil to inject nutrients directly into the plants. The soils natural
food webs are bypassed, degraded or killed. In such cases spreading manure
on your soil, such as chicken poop, will inject bacterial/microbal
(whatever) elements that will naturally start to function and improve your
soil. It may not be the exact policy prescription but will likely prove
beneficial. Another way of getting microbal life in to soils is to douse
them with compost tea. A google search will yield good info.

When adding fertiliser try using organic material. Blood and bone is good
(although it does lack K - potassium) and is even better mixed with fish
meal or seaweed (adds in the K). Pelletised animal poop is also available.
Some varieties are made out of chicken crap, I use stuff made from sheep
poop. Used coffee grounds apparently have a N-P-K mix of 3-1-2 and they are
free from cafes. I am trying that on my lawn applying double the amount of
synthetic fertilisers per sq metre.

Take a look at the worm activity in the rubbish section of lawn. Cut a spade
depth cubes sod of earth out of the ground and pull it apart and count the
number of worms in the sod. It is not exact but gives you a rule of thumb
for the worm activity in your soil. Anything under 7 is chronic, anything
over 22 odd is excellent. Some species of worm will come to the surface and
feed on dead grass thereby reducing thatch. They will also burrow allowing
water to percolate through the soil and help aerate the soil.

If you have stuff all worms that indicates the soil is not in good health.
Cut out the synthetics, put away the weed killers, try adding some compost
tea or spreading some fresh(ish) poop, use a mulching mower if you can,
apply organic fertilisers. It is about experimentation and seeing what works
and what doesn't. Give it a couple of years and you should notice a
difference. I have anyway.

some websites you may find useful
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/compost-tea-notes.html
http://www.organicdownunder.com/Fertilizer.htm
http://www.organiclawncaretips.com/
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/fred.moor/...ilis/f0107.htm
http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/...earthworms.htm
http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/...-soil-bugs.htm
http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/...-structure.htm

a little heavy going but recommended to read at your leisure.
http://www.ibiblio.org/rge/faq-html/sectionb.htm

"George.com" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Every year from the beginning (3rd year) there is a section of the lawn
that is naturally brownish, weedy and thin with the other parts of the
lawn respectable. Ironically, my "fantasy" of a perfect lawn exists
right up against this "crappy" section....imagine this 3 acres of lawn:
most = respectable; 1 section = crappy; 1 section = "perfect"...of
course this "perfect" section is right up against the bad (weird).

Anyways....when I go to Lowes and come back with my fertilizer (gets
expensive for 3 acres) after about a week the entire lawn looks great
including the "crappy" section then about 6 weeks later I'm back to:
good, bad, perfect and the cycle begins again. This cycle has lasted 3
years.

Question: How does a person make their lawn permanently "good" instead
of going through the cycles of using fertilizer? I know it's possible
somehow since I have that one really good section and most of my lawn
is respectable without using any fertilizer.

Of course the answer might be: what the heck is the difference between
that: "perfect" section compared to that "crappy" section!

Both sections in full sun, relatively flat and same seed...for that
matter my whole yard is this situation.

My only thought (doesn't sound like fun) is to kill all the grass in
the "crappy" section; till it up, shovel up some "top" soil (if that's
what is), dump it by the railroad tracks , and bring in some new top
soil from somewhere that looks "good", finally reseed.

if you are going to get your soil tested leave it about 3 months after you
have applied any fertiliser or lime.

The answer to your question lies in your soil. You can apply any amount of
fertilisers however if your soil is shit most likely will be your lawn.
You
can test the soil and alter the ph if necessary. Thats one part of the
equation. IMO, and its only my opinion but based on reading and
experimentation with my own lawn. The basis of soil care is to get things
in
balance and growing conditions, drought or flood tolerance (within
reason),
pest resistance etc all flows from there. For example, humus (partly
decayed
organic matter in the soil) hangs on to water during dry conditions and
lets
it run away better druing wet conditions.

Using artifical fertilisers you effectively feed the plant but not the
soil.
Moreover some fertilisers are quick hit rather than slow release.
effectively giving your lawn a quick nitrogen fix but leaving nothing when
it goes cold turkey. If the fertiliser is available too quickly much of it
will be lost in heavy rain. A slow release fertiliser makes nutrients
available slowly as the fertiliser breaks down through decomposition in
the
soil.

My view, cut out the synthetic fertilisers and as much weed spray as
possible (altogether if possible). Concentrate on getting the soil food
web
working and that will work in harmony with any ph adjustment you make and
adding nutrients to make up any trace element deficency identified in your
soil test.

Simple things such as using a mulching mower that cuts up the lawn
clippings
finely and distributes them evenly through your lawn. This encourages
worms
and other micro-organisms to feed and stimulates the complex web or
organisms in your soil that makes nutrients available to plants. It also
recycles any nutrients in your soil back in to the source (a form of
closed
cycle) reducing the need to add inputs such as fertiliser in to the soil.

Soil can become dead. The microbal/microscopic life forms are killed,
muched
reduced in number or starved of organic material. Conventional farming
seeks, for want of a better term, to add chemical fertilisers in to soil
to
artifically stimulate plants. A simplistic explaination is that they bypas
the soil to inject nutrients directly into the plants. The soils natural
food webs are bypassed, degraded or killed. In such cases spreading manure
on your soil, such as chicken poop, will inject bacterial/microbal
(whatever) elements that will naturally start to function and improve your
soil. It may not be the exact policy prescription but will likely prove
beneficial. Another way of getting microbal life in to soils is to douse
them with compost tea. A google search will yield good info.

When adding fertiliser try using organic material. Blood and bone is good
(although it does lack K - potassium) and is even better mixed with fish
meal or seaweed (adds in the K). Pelletised animal poop is also available.
Some varieties are made out of chicken crap, I use stuff made from sheep
poop. Used coffee grounds apparently have a N-P-K mix of 3-1-2 and they
are
free from cafes. I am trying that on my lawn applying double the amount of
synthetic fertilisers per sq metre.

Take a look at the worm activity in the rubbish section of lawn. Cut a
spade
depth cubes sod of earth out of the ground and pull it apart and count the
number of worms in the sod. It is not exact but gives you a rule of thumb
for the worm activity in your soil. Anything under 7 is chronic, anything
over 22 odd is excellent. Some species of worm will come to the surface
and
feed on dead grass thereby reducing thatch. They will also burrow allowing
water to percolate through the soil and help aerate the soil.

If you have stuff all worms that indicates the soil is not in good health.
Cut out the synthetics, put away the weed killers, try adding some compost
tea or spreading some fresh(ish) poop, use a mulching mower if you can,
apply organic fertilisers. It is about experimentation and seeing what
works
and what doesn't. Give it a couple of years and you should notice a
difference. I have anyway.

some websites you may find useful
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/compost-tea-notes.html
http://www.organicdownunder.com/Fertilizer.htm
http://www.organiclawncaretips.com/
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/fred.moor/...ilis/f0107.htm
http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/...earthworms.htm
http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/...-soil-bugs.htm
http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/...-structure.htm

a little heavy going but recommended to read at your leisure.
http://www.ibiblio.org/rge/faq-html/sectionb.htm

another resource I found very good, though needing to be consumed over many
readings, is this.
http://www.biodynamic.org.nz/guides/intro_ch1.pdf

rob

Every year from the beginning (3rd year) there is a section of the lawn
that is naturally brownish, weedy and thin with the other parts of the
lawn respectable. Ironically, my "fantasy" of a perfect lawn exists
right up against this "crappy" section....imagine this 3 acres of lawn:
most = respectable; 1 section = crappy; 1 section = "perfect"...of
course this "perfect" section is right up against the bad (weird).

Anyways....when I go to Lowes and come back with my fertilizer (gets
expensive for 3 acres) after about a week the entire lawn looks great
including the "crappy" section then about 6 weeks later I'm back to:
good, bad, perfect and the cycle begins again. This cycle has lasted 3
years.

Question: How does a person make their lawn permanently "good" instead
of going through the cycles of using fertilizer? I know it's possible
somehow since I have that one really good section and most of my lawn
is respectable without using any fertilizer.

Of course the answer might be: what the heck is the difference between
that: "perfect" section compared to that "crappy" section!

Both sections in full sun, relatively flat and same seed...for that
matter my whole yard is this situation.

My only thought (doesn't sound like fun) is to kill all the grass in
the "crappy" section; till it up, shovel up some "top" soil (if that's
what is), dump it by the railroad tracks , and bring in some new top
soil from somewhere that looks "good", finally reseed.

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"George.com" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Every year from the beginning (3rd year) there is a section of the
lawn
that is naturally brownish, weedy and thin with the other parts of the
lawn respectable. Ironically, my "fantasy" of a perfect lawn exists
right up against this "crappy" section....imagine this 3 acres of
lawn:
most = respectable; 1 section = crappy; 1 section = "perfect"...of
course this "perfect" section is right up against the bad (weird).

Anyways....when I go to Lowes and come back with my fertilizer (gets
expensive for 3 acres) after about a week the entire lawn looks great
including the "crappy" section then about 6 weeks later I'm back to:
good, bad, perfect and the cycle begins again. This cycle has lasted
3
years.

Question: How does a person make their lawn permanently "good" instead
of going through the cycles of using fertilizer? I know it's possible
somehow since I have that one really good section and most of my lawn
is respectable without using any fertilizer.

Of course the answer might be: what the heck is the difference between
that: "perfect" section compared to that "crappy" section!

Both sections in full sun, relatively flat and same seed...for that
matter my whole yard is this situation.

My only thought (doesn't sound like fun) is to kill all the grass in
the "crappy" section; till it up, shovel up some "top" soil (if that's
what is), dump it by the railroad tracks , and bring in some new top
soil from somewhere that looks "good", finally reseed.

if you are going to get your soil tested leave it about 3 months after
you
have applied any fertiliser or lime.

The answer to your question lies in your soil. You can apply any amount
of
fertilisers however if your soil is shit most likely will be your lawn.
You
can test the soil and alter the ph if necessary. Thats one part of the
equation. IMO, and its only my opinion but based on reading and
experimentation with my own lawn. The basis of soil care is to get
things
in
balance and growing conditions, drought or flood tolerance (within
reason),
pest resistance etc all flows from there. For example, humus (partly
decayed
organic matter in the soil) hangs on to water during dry conditions and
lets
it run away better druing wet conditions.

Using artifical fertilisers you effectively feed the plant but not the
soil.
Moreover some fertilisers are quick hit rather than slow release.
effectively giving your lawn a quick nitrogen fix but leaving nothing
when
it goes cold turkey. If the fertiliser is available too quickly much of
it
will be lost in heavy rain. A slow release fertiliser makes nutrients
available slowly as the fertiliser breaks down through decomposition in
the
soil.

My view, cut out the synthetic fertilisers and as much weed spray as
possible (altogether if possible). Concentrate on getting the soil food
web
working and that will work in harmony with any ph adjustment you make
and
adding nutrients to make up any trace element deficency identified in
your
soil test.

Simple things such as using a mulching mower that cuts up the lawn
clippings
finely and distributes them evenly through your lawn. This encourages
worms
and other micro-organisms to feed and stimulates the complex web or
organisms in your soil that makes nutrients available to plants. It also
recycles any nutrients in your soil back in to the source (a form of
closed
cycle) reducing the need to add inputs such as fertiliser in to the
soil.

Soil can become dead. The microbal/microscopic life forms are killed,
muched
reduced in number or starved of organic material. Conventional farming
seeks, for want of a better term, to add chemical fertilisers in to soil
to
artifically stimulate plants. A simplistic explaination is that they
bypas
the soil to inject nutrients directly into the plants. The soils natural
food webs are bypassed, degraded or killed. In such cases spreading
manure
on your soil, such as chicken poop, will inject bacterial/microbal
(whatever) elements that will naturally start to function and improve
your
soil. It may not be the exact policy prescription but will likely prove
beneficial. Another way of getting microbal life in to soils is to douse
them with compost tea. A google search will yield good info.

When adding fertiliser try using organic material. Blood and bone is
good
(although it does lack K - potassium) and is even better mixed with fish
meal or seaweed (adds in the K). Pelletised animal poop is also
available.
Some varieties are made out of chicken crap, I use stuff made from sheep
poop. Used coffee grounds apparently have a N-P-K mix of 3-1-2 and they
are
free from cafes. I am trying that on my lawn applying double the amount
of
synthetic fertilisers per sq metre.

Take a look at the worm activity in the rubbish section of lawn. Cut a
spade
depth cubes sod of earth out of the ground and pull it apart and count
the
number of worms in the sod. It is not exact but gives you a rule of
thumb
for the worm activity in your soil. Anything under 7 is chronic,
anything
over 22 odd is excellent. Some species of worm will come to the surface
and
feed on dead grass thereby reducing thatch. They will also burrow
allowing
water to percolate through the soil and help aerate the soil.

If you have stuff all worms that indicates the soil is not in good
health.
Cut out the synthetics, put away the weed killers, try adding some
compost
tea or spreading some fresh(ish) poop, use a mulching mower if you can,
apply organic fertilisers. It is about experimentation and seeing what
works
and what doesn't. Give it a couple of years and you should notice a
difference. I have anyway.

A, imo, very good article I have just finished reading. A good condensed
(comparitively) source of organic care of your lawn. It states a good case
for doing away with synthetic fertilisers and icides (pest/fung) and
continually adding organic matter to your lawn. These kill or diminish the
food web that exists in your soil, upset the natural balance and may
encourage weeds and bugs. Killing worms can contribute to thatch build up in
lawns and problems with drainage. Also it seems, a deep green lawn is not
the best thing. A mid green lawn is healthier. Worth reading if you want to
improve a moderate to crap lawn.
http://www.seattle.gov/util/stellent...2021255394.pdf

rob