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Tilling the yard advice please
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Tilling the yard advice please
On Apr 18, 8:30 pm, Steveo wrote:
wrote: Steveo said: I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway. Eggsactly. Ain't it funny how sometimes "random" becomes quite opportunistic? =) Turn-about and something to do with fair play. -- http://NewsReader.Com/ If the std for what is acceptable and safe is to google the internet and find a website that says something is bad, there isn't much left that you can use. You can find some extremists websites that say just about anything will kill you, is unsafe, and should not be used. All dgk has to do is keep the cats off the lawn for a few days to a week after the Roundup is applied. After that, it all gets tilled, so what's there will be decreased by an order of magnitude. Seems very reasonable to me. BTW, if he doesn't like Roundup, I wonder what he thinks of genetically modified crops like soybeans, that have been created to be Roundup resistant? Those are sprayed with Roundup to kill weeds, but not the crop. Better not eat those. Or how about how is he going to deal with weeds in the newly seeded yard? Hmmm, if Roundup is bad, what about broadleaf weedkilller? Maybe he should stick with what he has now. |
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Tilling the yard advice please
dgk said:
[...] That's not a bad suggestion. The lawn is green and is better than the crap on my two neighbor's yards. And clover is not awful and is a natural part of the lawn. Clover is better for your lawn than you may think. Do some reading on "nitrogen fixation". Still, over the 10 years or so that I've owned the house, I've made the mistake of using different grass seeds and it just all sort of looks different. It's 18x30. Just rent a sod cutter for a day, cut the old sod out and discard it. Rake it smooth, working in a bit of organic matter, and lay the new sod in place. It's that simple. You could, by yourself, prep that area in one day, and lay the (less than a) pallet of sod in less than an hour, the next day. That's such a small area, it would seem to me to be the most logical, quick method. All that's required after that is regular waterings until it roots in. If you want cool season grasses, now's the time to resod, for sure. Tilling isn't really all that great for the soil structure. You stated that your soil is mostly clay. You hit it with a tiller, you're going to have 60 sq/yd of big, hard, clay "rocks", in a few days. Have fun raking /that/ smooth. There are also patches where I can't get anything to grow. The ground is hard and it just doesn't seem possible to fix it without major renovation. The base of the lawn is a thick web of interlocking roots and runners. Pulling out clover by the roots and runners is not a time-efficient activity in my experience. What I suggested above is about as "major" of a renovation as you can do. You completely replace the turf. But you do it /without/ disturbing the substrata. It takes a nice weekend, and probably less cash than you think. Call a local sod farm. You only need 60 yd. A pallet is about 70 IIRC. Local rental shops should have a sod cutter, or the sod farm would know where to rent one, I'm sure. It's worth looking into. [...] I think this time I'll just till the mess and use the opportuity to get some lime and peat moss in, and reconfigure the yard, adding some space for more tomatoes and string beans and such. How much peat do you think you'll need for that area? Are the rest of the plantings in the immediate vicinity, acid-loving? Perhaps a little house for the cats to play in and maybe a waterfall thing. But those are so hokey. I dunno. I've never seen cats play in a waterfall thing. Might be kinda entertaining. =) If the crabgrass and clover come back too quickly, I'll consider the roundup route or cover it up with plastic sheeting. Crabgrass is easily prevented using a pre-emergent. If the Forsythia are still blooming, or it's been unseasonably cool in your area, it /may/ still help to put it down. I'd rethink killing the clover, if you're actually going to till the area. Thanks everyone for the advice. We're finally going to have a nice weekend here in NY so I'll probably do the deed tomorrow. It's guaranteed to be a big mess. Yup. And, one that will probably take you a while to fix. Good luck. =) -- Eggs -I went to a seafood disco rave last week.... and pulled a mussel. |
#5
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Tilling the yard advice please
Eggs Zachtly wrote:
dgk said: [...] That's not a bad suggestion. The lawn is green and is better than the crap on my two neighbor's yards. And clover is not awful and is a natural part of the lawn. Clover is better for your lawn than you may think. Do some reading on "nitrogen fixation". some species that "fix" nitrogen (mainly legumes such as wild indigo, Carolina lupine, and clover that make air nitrogen available to roots). auto aeration Still, over the 10 years or so that I've owned the house, I've made the mistake of using different grass seeds and it just all sort of looks different. It's 18x30. Just rent a sod cutter for a day, cut the old sod out and discard it. Rake it smooth, working in a bit of organic matter, and lay the new sod in place. It's that simple. You could, by yourself, prep that area in one day, and lay the (less than a) pallet of sod in less than an hour, the next day. That's such a small area, it would seem to me to be the most logical, quick method. All that's required after that is regular waterings until it roots in. If you want cool season grasses, now's the time to resod, for sure. Tilling isn't really all that great for the soil structure. You stated that your soil is mostly clay. You hit it with a tiller, you're going to have 60 sq/yd of big, hard, clay "rocks", in a few days. Have fun raking /that/ smooth. There are also patches where I can't get anything to grow. The ground is hard and it just doesn't seem possible to fix it without major renovation. The base of the lawn is a thick web of interlocking roots and runners. Pulling out clover by the roots and runners is not a time-efficient activity in my experience. What I suggested above is about as "major" of a renovation as you can do. You completely replace the turf. But you do it /without/ disturbing the substrata. It takes a nice weekend, and probably less cash than you think. Call a local sod farm. You only need 60 yd. A pallet is about 70 IIRC. Local rental shops should have a sod cutter, or the sod farm would know where to rent one, I'm sure. It's worth looking into. [...] I think this time I'll just till the mess and use the opportuity to get some lime and peat moss in, and reconfigure the yard, adding some space for more tomatoes and string beans and such. How much peat do you think you'll need for that area? Are the rest of the plantings in the immediate vicinity, acid-loving? Perhaps a little house for the cats to play in and maybe a waterfall thing. But those are so hokey. I dunno. I've never seen cats play in a waterfall thing. Might be kinda entertaining. =) If the crabgrass and clover come back too quickly, I'll consider the roundup route or cover it up with plastic sheeting. Crabgrass is easily prevented using a pre-emergent. If the Forsythia are still blooming, or it's been unseasonably cool in your area, it /may/ still help to put it down. I'd rethink killing the clover, if you're actually going to till the area. Thanks everyone for the advice. We're finally going to have a nice weekend here in NY so I'll probably do the deed tomorrow. It's guaranteed to be a big mess. Yup. And, one that will probably take you a while to fix. Good luck. =) Hi Eggs, I been sitting back watching this thread thinking don't waste the time with a tiller in heavy clay soil. Man Eggs, your solution is indeed a good use of time and will produce more bang for the buck. all I'd add would be the use of a star tooth aerator, with just as much weight as I could get on the thing, be run over the area just prior to laying the sod. best 2U, Jim |
#6
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Tilling the yard advice please
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:26:46 -0600, Eggs Zachtly
wrote: dgk said: [...] That's not a bad suggestion. The lawn is green and is better than the crap on my two neighbor's yards. And clover is not awful and is a natural part of the lawn. Clover is better for your lawn than you may think. Do some reading on "nitrogen fixation". Still, over the 10 years or so that I've owned the house, I've made the mistake of using different grass seeds and it just all sort of looks different. It's 18x30. Just rent a sod cutter for a day, cut the old sod out and discard it. Rake it smooth, working in a bit of organic matter, and lay the new sod in place. It's that simple. You could, by yourself, prep that area in one day, and lay the (less than a) pallet of sod in less than an hour, the next day. That's such a small area, it would seem to me to be the most logical, quick method. All that's required after that is regular waterings until it roots in. If you want cool season grasses, now's the time to resod, for sure. Tilling isn't really all that great for the soil structure. You stated that your soil is mostly clay. You hit it with a tiller, you're going to have 60 sq/yd of big, hard, clay "rocks", in a few days. Have fun raking /that/ smooth. There are also patches where I can't get anything to grow. The ground is hard and it just doesn't seem possible to fix it without major renovation. The base of the lawn is a thick web of interlocking roots and runners. Pulling out clover by the roots and runners is not a time-efficient activity in my experience. What I suggested above is about as "major" of a renovation as you can do. You completely replace the turf. But you do it /without/ disturbing the substrata. It takes a nice weekend, and probably less cash than you think. Call a local sod farm. You only need 60 yd. A pallet is about 70 IIRC. Local rental shops should have a sod cutter, or the sod farm would know where to rent one, I'm sure. It's worth looking into. [...] I think this time I'll just till the mess and use the opportuity to get some lime and peat moss in, and reconfigure the yard, adding some space for more tomatoes and string beans and such. How much peat do you think you'll need for that area? Are the rest of the plantings in the immediate vicinity, acid-loving? Perhaps a little house for the cats to play in and maybe a waterfall thing. But those are so hokey. I dunno. I've never seen cats play in a waterfall thing. Might be kinda entertaining. =) If the crabgrass and clover come back too quickly, I'll consider the roundup route or cover it up with plastic sheeting. Crabgrass is easily prevented using a pre-emergent. If the Forsythia are still blooming, or it's been unseasonably cool in your area, it /may/ still help to put it down. I'd rethink killing the clover, if you're actually going to till the area. Thanks everyone for the advice. We're finally going to have a nice weekend here in NY so I'll probably do the deed tomorrow. It's guaranteed to be a big mess. Yup. And, one that will probably take you a while to fix. Good luck. =) Ok, I'm convinced. I hold off on tilling. One other thing I should have mentioned is that there is no way to get anything into the backyard without going through the house, so sod is going to be awkward. But, I never heard of a sod cutter before and it certainly makes sense that tilling clay can be messy. Instead of heading off to rent a tiller, I'll look around at sod cutters and the availability of sod. I suppose they put roundup all over the sod but at least I won't know about it. Maybe. Thanks for the advice. I'll head over to the local Garden World for a start. |
#7
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Tilling the yard advice please
dgk said:
[...] Ok, I'm convinced. I hold off on tilling. One other thing I should have mentioned is that there is no way to get anything into the backyard without going through the house, so sod is going to be awkward. But, I never heard of a sod cutter before and it certainly makes sense that tilling clay can be messy. A sod cutter resembles a heavy mower, or tiller. It has a blade that sits parallel to the ground, and the depth of its cut is adjustable. As the cutter propels itself along, the blade moves side to side, as well as front/back, in order to cut a long strip of sod, leaving behind a fairly smooth (barring any rocks) surface. You then cut the long strip into smaller ones, making them easier to handle. Just roll them up and carry them off. The new sod comes in small rolls, that you just unroll in place and snug up against the previously laid one. Instead of heading off to rent a tiller, I'll look around at sod cutters and the availability of sod. I suppose they put roundup all over the sod but at least I won't know about it. Maybe. Nope, no need to spray anything. Just cut it up and haul it away. =) Thanks for the advice. I'll head over to the local Garden World for a start. Good luck, man. Like I said, I'm not sure who'd have one, but someone will. =) -- Eggs Most books now say our sun is a star. But it still knows how to change back into a sun in the daytime. |
#8
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Tilling the yard advice please
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 12:44:42 -0600, Eggs Zachtly
wrote: dgk said: [...] Ok, I'm convinced. I hold off on tilling. One other thing I should have mentioned is that there is no way to get anything into the backyard without going through the house, so sod is going to be awkward. But, I never heard of a sod cutter before and it certainly makes sense that tilling clay can be messy. A sod cutter resembles a heavy mower, or tiller. It has a blade that sits parallel to the ground, and the depth of its cut is adjustable. As the cutter propels itself along, the blade moves side to side, as well as front/back, in order to cut a long strip of sod, leaving behind a fairly smooth (barring any rocks) surface. You then cut the long strip into smaller ones, making them easier to handle. Just roll them up and carry them off. The new sod comes in small rolls, that you just unroll in place and snug up against the previously laid one. .... Garden World (which is familiar with the local soil) says that I likely wouldn't have much problem with clay after a few passes with a tiller, but that I would need to compact the soil, or sink every time someone walked on it. That's a problem with having an attached house (row house) since getting anything into or out of the yard usually means going though the house. There is really no way to get a big roller back there. It also means some heavy and messy lifting for sod. So I went the conservative route for this time. I spent Saturday digging up the bare areas and filling them in with peat moss, topsoil, and some lime and seed. I then did the topping suggested by the link from Data. I spread peat moss all over the lawn, then went over it with lime (pellets). I also did the areas reserved for vegetables. Then I watered (lightly) Sunday I fertilized and watered (lightly) and had the first barbeque of the season. Now I wait to see how much of the see is left by the birds. Much of it is buried under the thin peatmoss layer so I should be all right. Thanks again for the advice. It won't be perfect but it won't be a big mess either. |
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