I've read that as well, and here is my take on it:

I had peach trees defoliated for four years until last year. I put up two
traps, and had great peaches. Did it again this year with the same results.
I guess I don't care how many beetles I have in my yard, as long as they are
not attacking the peaches. As far as drawing them in.... My neighbors plum
tree was completely defoliated while being about 90 feet away from one on my
traps. That doesn't sound like the trap attracted the beetles from his tree
to my trap. Now I have great peaches and he has a tree with no leaves or
fruit.

If you don't have a beetle problem, don't put up traps. If you don't have a
problem, more than likely, there is nothing in your yard the beetles find
attractive, or they can't find it. Don't give them any reason to drop by
for a visit. If you do have a problem, traps may be the most effective way
to control adults. For me there is no doubt in my mind. The defoliated
years I sprayed with Malathion about twice a week without succsess.
However, grub treatment, as discussed in the other messages in this thread
is also important. The only problem is that you probably won't want to
treat your neighbors yard.

Check out this website:

http://home.insightbb.com/~downeyjf

It's mine, and yes I am selling something. However, take a look at some of
the pictures and read the text of what I've seen this year, and decide for
yourself what the truth is concerning drawing beetles to traps. I have two
instances I've seen in the past three weeks where beetles that were within
100 feet of traps and continued to stay put and keep munching. To me, that
debunks the whole "they draw beetles from everywhere" theory. Unless
"everywhere" is within about 80 feet of the trap.

Joel
wrote in message
...
wrote:

THROW AWAY that jap beetle attractor, please!

Why?
My Lindens were covered with beetles, and the attractor got them off
of it.

Did they get a last meal from it before they went in the bag? They've
been proved to draw more beetles into your yard, than you ever would
of had without the gimmick.

--
GO# 40

"Joel Downey" wrote:
I've read that as well, and here is my take on it:

I've seen you hawking that gizmo before.

Here are the facts on bag a bug's.

http://comp.uark.edu/~dtjohnso/japbeetle.html

Japanese beetle traps are sold under the claim that they attract and
remove enough beetles to meaningfully reduce the nearby population and
protect surrounding plants. They do catch a lot of beetles, so they do in
fact reduce the local population, but the magnitude of that reduction is
usually small. If you do use traps in an effort to control this insect,
use several (not just 2 or 3), and place them a little ways away from the
plants you hope to protect most -- more beetles come to the area of the
trap than are actually caught and killed, so damage to susceptible plants
near or adjacent to traps can be great. The notes that Danitol and Sevin
work best against these beetles. Imidan, malathion and Marlate
(methoxychlor) are moderately effective.

Try Sevin next time.

--
GO# 40

I've read lots of things about the traps. I also am an engineer with 20
years of doing experiments and evaluating data. Check out my website. I
have lots of beetles around, (mostly in traps) and great peaches. No
pesticides to spray, so I can go out and pick a peach and eat it without
worrying about ingesting anything other than various insect's dung (what a
pleasant thought!) The problem I have with most of the studies that I have
seen is that you can't be sure who's funding them, and how that might effect
the outcome. I've been around the block enough that I'm skeptical about
anything unless I know (hopefully personally) the folks doing the experiment
and that they are good (read that smart enough to know what they are looking
for and smart enought to interpret the data they collect correctly) and
unbiased. This includes many PhD types at universities, doing research for
the sole purpose of generating $$.

All I will rely on is what I've seen, and it does not completely mesh with
most of the published reports. This year, I put up a trap 100 feet away
from an infested plant. Note, the trap was put in place after the plant in
question was 1/3 defoliated. Three days later, the trap was full and the
infested plant was still infested, and now about 1/2 defoliated. I
suspended traps from two trees, and for all the beetles that were attracted
in, the peach trees are virtually untouched. In fact, I am presently
supporting the tree with props to try to keep the branches from breaking
under the weight of the peaches.

Ohio State, Michigan State and Purdue have done similar experiments, and
they all come to roughly the same conclusion, I'm guessing, as your
reference. Sorry, but I don't trust experiments carried out by most
graduate students. To quote your text: "more beetles come to the area of
the trap than are actually caught and killed, so damage to susceptible
plants near or adjacent to traps can be great." Notice the words CAN BE.
The lack of a difinitive phrase like "is certain" or even "is highly likely"
should be a clue that maybe the data did not prove that susceptible plants
were indeed damaged!! Here's something intersting about the article you
referenced:

In the first line of the last paragraph, and I'll cut and paste so I don't
make a mistake, " Sevin XLR (7-day PHI) and malathion (1- to 3-day PHI,
depending on the crop) are often the best choices.

And later in the same paragraph, " The notes that Danitol and Sevin work
best against these beetles. Imidan, malathion and Marlate (methoxychlor) are
moderately effective."

OK, is malathion the best choice,as stated in the first quote, or only
moderately effective as stated in the second quote? I do agree with the
statement " Be sure to scout frequently for Japanese beetles including
re-scouting about 24 to 48 hours after you've applied an insecticide.
Remember that this insect reinvades crops very rapidly. " which is
consistent with my experience the four years my peach trees were severely
damaged.

In my case, as I said earlier, I placed the traps on the trees I wanted
protected, in spite of the manufacturers recommendation to put them 30 feet
away, downwind. Let's see, four years of defoliation without traps. Two
years of great peaches and virtually no leaf damage with traps. To me, that
is pretty conclusive evidence. Next year, I'll put a trap on my neighbors
plum tree and see what happens. Since I've taken pictures of that tree this
year, I'll have something concrete to base my conclusion on, vs. just what
I've experienced over the past six summers. I also have a friend using the
traps this year to keep the beetles off his roses. He seems to be getting
the same results as I am. Lots of beetles at the trap, and none on the
roses. His trap, however, is not placed in the rose plant area.

Check out the web site for pictures. I think they are pretty clear. I will
keep updating the site with information as I get feedback. No disrepect to
our great teaching institutions, but for now I think I'll ignore their
conclusions and do what I know works.

Joel

wrote in message
...
"Joel Downey" wrote:
I've read that as well, and here is my take on it:

I've seen you hawking that gizmo before.

Here are the facts on bag a bug's.

http://comp.uark.edu/~dtjohnso/japbeetle.html

Japanese beetle traps are sold under the claim that they attract and
remove enough beetles to meaningfully reduce the nearby population and
protect surrounding plants. They do catch a lot of beetles, so they do in
fact reduce the local population, but the magnitude of that reduction is
usually small. If you do use traps in an effort to control this insect,
use several (not just 2 or 3), and place them a little ways away from the
plants you hope to protect most -- more beetles come to the area of the
trap than are actually caught and killed, so damage to susceptible plants
near or adjacent to traps can be great. The notes that Danitol and
Sevin
work best against these beetles. Imidan, malathion and Marlate
(methoxychlor) are moderately effective.

Try Sevin next time.

--
GO# 40

I tried to send this to you, but had a delivery failure so I decided to post
to the group.

I agree with you. I have invented something that makes the bag-a-bug
traps much better. Check out my home page;

http://home.insightbb.com/~downeyjf

Feel free to email me with any questions. I like what the one guy was
saying about grub control. I try to do both. However, my neighbors on
both sides don't. Check out a plum tree that one of them has, at least for
now.
I have pictures of it at my site. I have sold the first 50 proto's of this
invention to folks around Kokomo, Indiana and am having the first
production run done next week. A little late for this year, so I view it
as getting
a head start on next year.

Good luck with the lindens. I found it helps to shake the tree
periodically to dislodge the beetles. Provided the tree is small enough!!
Hopefully,
when they come back, the end up in the jug (for my traps), or bags in your
case. If you have a minute, and actually go to my website, let me know
what you think.

Thanks

Joel
wrote in message
...


THROW AWAY that jap beetle attractor, please!

Why?
My Lindens were covered with beetles, and the attractor got them off
of it.

Mopar,

The first beetles we saw this year were on a pot of basil on our deck.
One night we looked at it, and it was black with beetles.

I bought some Sevn, sprayed the basil, the beetles dropped and never
came back.

I will take your advice next year, and just spray our linden trees
(which were the beetles' favorite) with Sevn.

The problem is, this year, we had no idea until it was too late.
Next year I'll be ready for them....I'll be looking up at the trees
from July 1st on, waiting for those little *******s.

Our other trees are mostly maples, oaks, crabs. The beetles tasted
the oaks, but didn't like them enough to do damage.

Our lindens, however, are gone. My front yard is covered with
leaves...looks like October.

So if all I have to spray next year are the lindens, that's
manageable, then I won't use the traps.

I invented something, too. All my neighbors adopted it.

Instead of the bags, which fill up in an hour, I just put a bucket of
soapy water under the attractor. As soon as the idiot beetles hit or
try to land on the attractor, they fall straight down into the bucket.

Then I toss the whole mess out into the field.

Those bags of dead beetles are the most horrible stench I've ever
smelled in my life....1000 times worse than diapers.

wrote:
Mopar,

The first beetles we saw this year were on a pot of basil on our deck.
One night we looked at it, and it was black with beetles.

I bought some Sevn, sprayed the basil, the beetles dropped and never
came back.

I will take your advice next year, and just spray our linden trees
(which were the beetles' favorite) with Sevn.

The problem is, this year, we had no idea until it was too late.
Next year I'll be ready for them....I'll be looking up at the trees
from July 1st on, waiting for those little *******s.

Our other trees are mostly maples, oaks, crabs. The beetles tasted
the oaks, but didn't like them enough to do damage.

Our lindens, however, are gone. My front yard is covered with
leaves...looks like October.

So if all I have to spray next year are the lindens, that's
manageable, then I won't use the traps.

That's fine, Comp. In Ohio they are only a problem in July
for the most part, so a couple apps of Sevin then will offer
superior protection to your valued plant material. I suggest
adding some spreader sticker to your solution, it does just
what the name says, helps the control product to spread and
stick to the foliage.

Good luck.

--
GO# 40

I suggest
adding some spreader sticker to your solution,

Thanks...got any brand names?

wrote:
I suggest
adding some spreader sticker to your solution,

Thanks...got any brand names?

Here's one- http://homeharvest.com/insectspraysurfactant.htm

Also check with your local garden center. A small amount
of dish soap will also do the trick, if you can't find SS.

--
GO# 40

Comp

That's a good idea. Especially if you've got some good place to dump the
bucket. I saw something a guy had done, that is similar to my idea and yours
combined. He made a funnel from a 2 liter bottle, and joined it with
another bottle with some sort of permanent joint. At the end of the day, he
filled the bottom bottle with soapy water, and then dumped it the next day
before he put the unit back up. In my patent searching, I found a patent on
a trap that would be placed in a small pond. When the beetles drop, the
fish eat them.

As far as spraying is concerned, I would say that Mopar is correct.
However, I found that I needed to spray so often that I had trouble keeping
up. His reference also from the University of Arkansas also makes that
point. If I read it correctly, you will need to be spraying every 2 or
three days. There is no doubt that spraying can be effective and a good
choice, especially for a tree like you have that is not fruit bearing, and
if you are able to reach the higher branches with your sprayer. What I
found though, was that spraying was more expensive, and more difficult to do
frequently enough to keep the beetles at bay. I have used both malathion
and sevin, and I don't remember seeing a big difference. But then again, I
didn't spray often enough. On that choice I would have to defer to Mopar's
reccomendation.

Good luck with whatever solution you use. I found the traps were the best
for my situation. I wrote a bunch of stuff about how the traps worked this
year when placed in certain areas relative to susceptible plants. Maybe
worth reading if you decide to use traps in the future. I just changed out
one of the jugs this morning. The beetles are still pretty active here
right now, but they seem to be getting a little less so than last week. I
can't believe what they did to a plum tree next door. 99% of the leaves are
just skeletons made up of viens. I don't know how often that can happen
before the tree dies.

On another note, I like your reference to the critters as "idiot beetles".
That pretty much describes them.

Joel
wrote in message
...
I invented something, too. All my neighbors adopted it.

Instead of the bags, which fill up in an hour, I just put a bucket of
soapy water under the attractor. As soon as the idiot beetles hit or
try to land on the attractor, they fall straight down into the bucket.

Then I toss the whole mess out into the field.

Those bags of dead beetles are the most horrible stench I've ever
smelled in my life....1000 times worse than diapers.

Xref: 127.0.0.1 alt.home.lawn.garden:5273

Comp,

Here is a website refernced in Moparholic's University of Arkansas article:

http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/h...e/jbeetle.html

It is a pretty comprehensive and from what I can tell, unbiased. It sounds
like alot of work if you want to do it right. I noticed the first plant on
their list of "Plants Susceptible to Adult Japanese Beetle Feeding" is the
American Linden. Imagine that.

Joel


wrote in message
...
I invented something, too. All my neighbors adopted it.

Instead of the bags, which fill up in an hour, I just put a bucket of
soapy water under the attractor. As soon as the idiot beetles hit or
try to land on the attractor, they fall straight down into the bucket.

Then I toss the whole mess out into the field.

Those bags of dead beetles are the most horrible stench I've ever
smelled in my life....1000 times worse than diapers.