Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think you
can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should get a
copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not included.
And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay for me to
buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the slide, I need a
digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from Hurricane
Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers everything ...
even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may sound, I will not be
surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse again.
Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us who
get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower it
eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every award
so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging centers. If
AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going to break
eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

Since it is a non-profit organization, The American Orchid Society's IRS
Form 990 , is a matter of public record. So I thought it would be fun to
see if I could find it online. :-)

The most recent one online I found is the 2003 form, but they are available
going back to 1998. It's interesting, I suppose, and all it cost to pull up
the .pdf copy on guidestar.org was to register a my name and a password,
which was free. I say it's interesting to look over, even if some of it's
import is probably lost on me. I enjoyed reading the list of stock and bond
investments, and the list of grants...and the income, minus COGS from their
Orchid Emporium. I think I would have to dig to find the revenues and costs
associated with the award program and the magazine... I didn't look too
deeply at the numbers. Besides I just wanted to see if it was online...
and it is....

But, I'm sure the AOS must publish this info themselves someplace, right?
Don't they put it in the magazine or on the website?

Al wrote:
Since it is a non-profit organization, The American Orchid Society's IRS
Form 990 , is a matter of public record. So I thought it would be fun to
see if I could find it online. :-)

The most recent one online I found is the 2003 form, but they are available
going back to 1998. It's interesting, I suppose, and all it cost to pull up
the .pdf copy on guidestar.org was to register a my name and a password,
which was free. I say it's interesting to look over, even if some of it's
import is probably lost on me. I enjoyed reading the list of stock and bond
investments, and the list of grants...and the income, minus COGS from their
Orchid Emporium. I think I would have to dig to find the revenues and costs
associated with the award program and the magazine... I didn't look too
deeply at the numbers. Besides I just wanted to see if it was online...
and it is....

But, I'm sure the AOS must publish this info themselves someplace, right?
Don't they put it in the magazine or on the website?



In the way olden days they used to publish it in the Bulletin, along
with minutes of the meetings, but no more.

David Grove usually provides a link to the guidestar report on the OGD.
Usually good for a few days of outrage.

K Barrett

I remember the olden days, I think I have some old magazines that have them
in it. I remember the discussion when they stopped publishing it. And I
can see why a quick scan of the AOS 990 on guidestar would enrage the
proletariat, especially just after an announcement that dues are increasing.
:-D

If I should suddenly be killed under a bus or something, tell them it was
the orchid mafia.

"K Barrett" wrote in message
...

In the way olden days they used to publish it in the Bulletin, along with
minutes of the meetings, but no more.

David Grove usually provides a link to the guidestar report on the OGD.
Usually good for a few days of outrage.

K Barrett

You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide form)
that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should get
a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us who
get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower it
eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going to
break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

I've gotten slides of my awards, but I know that not everyone has.
Usually its a matter of housekeeping, the award slide paperwork is as
onerous as submitting health insurance forms. Just about everyone has a
huge backlog. Jeeze, tracking the provisional awards alone can kill you.

K Barrett

Al wrote:
You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide form)
that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should get
a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us who
get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower it
eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going to
break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

I do recall that the slides shows up separately from, and somewhat later
than, award parchment. But they do show up.

"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
I've gotten slides of my awards, but I know that not everyone has. Usually
its a matter of housekeeping, the award slide paperwork is as onerous as
submitting health insurance forms. Just about everyone has a huge
backlog. Jeeze, tracking the provisional awards alone can kill you.

K Barrett

Al wrote:
You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here
in Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation
that you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up several
times just to get the award registered, finally got the certificate about a
year later and never got a slide [and most recently, I'm following up AGAIN
because the award info, which was previously in WildCatt, has somehow
disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor any separate paperwork to
request a copy of the slide, that I can recall. But (no disrespect to the
photographer), I actually didn't care for the award photo on that one and
got one on my own digital camera that I like better.

Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the award
registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her and being
sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being told several
weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has there been any
mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at the judging center
.... again.

Kenni

"Al" wrote in message
...
You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

Well, these were both provisional awards. They are a real bear to
track. I wish more exhibitors were as punctual as you are. Most run
and hide, refuse to pay for the award until we bill them anyway, then
they get off their asses to get the plant identified, registered or what
have you... THEN the paperwork starts through the AOS system, which
takes a minimum of 6 months. In the meantime the AOS photographer has
the slides stored someplace and if no one tells him that the award has
been cleared they just sit and wait until someone asks for the slides.

BTW, your awards are in OrchidWiz.

K Barrett
Kenni Judd wrote:
Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up several
times just to get the award registered, finally got the certificate about a
year later and never got a slide [and most recently, I'm following up AGAIN
because the award info, which was previously in WildCatt, has somehow
disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor any separate paperwork to
request a copy of the slide, that I can recall. But (no disrespect to the
photographer), I actually didn't care for the award photo on that one and
got one on my own digital camera that I like better.

Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the award
registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her and being
sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being told several
weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has there been any
mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at the judging center
... again.

Kenni

"Al" wrote in message
...

You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult for
AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration (directly
from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at least to
provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the provisional
award? Kenni

"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
Well, these were both provisional awards. They are a real bear to track.
I wish more exhibitors were as punctual as you are. Most run and hide,
refuse to pay for the award until we bill them anyway, then they get off
their asses to get the plant identified, registered or what have you...
THEN the paperwork starts through the AOS system, which takes a minimum of
6 months. In the meantime the AOS photographer has the slides stored
someplace and if no one tells him that the award has been cleared they
just sit and wait until someone asks for the slides.

BTW, your awards are in OrchidWiz.

K Barrett
Kenni Judd wrote:
Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS
was provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up
several times just to get the award registered, finally got the
certificate about a year later and never got a slide [and most recently,
I'm following up AGAIN because the award info, which was previously in
WildCatt, has somehow disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor
any separate paperwork to request a copy of the slide, that I can recall.
But (no disrespect to the photographer), I actually didn't care for the
award photo on that one and got one on my own digital camera that I like
better.

Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS
was provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the
award registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her
and being sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being
told several weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has
there been any mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at
the judging center ... again.

Kenni

"Al" wrote in message
...

You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here
in Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation
that you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even
pay for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for
the slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the
flower it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides
for every award so that they can be distributed to all of the other
judging centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system
is going to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to
happen.)
-danny

Kenni Judd wrote:
K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult for
AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration (directly
from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at least to
provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the provisional
award? Kenni


Unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that... AOS and RHS
don't necessarily play well together, but that is the least of it.
Large problem is that you are supposed to obtain permission of the
hybridizer to register an award. And there is a fee associated with it.
And if it is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a
week before you do), it gets more complicated. And then there is the
whole species and genera changing names problem... I don't think it
would be easier if AOS was involved.

It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit.
But that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...

Rob


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

Rob: On your first point: AOS and RHS should get together and work
something out. Do they need a mediator??? I could go to England this
summer, on their tab VBG. It REALLY just CAN'T be that hard to implement
some system for a copy of the RHS registration to come to AOS and from there
be sent to the proper person. By email, it would take maybe 30 seconds of
someone's time. And at $60 (the non-AOS-member charge to register an
award), I think that could easily include even a hard copy by mail.

Unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that... AOS and RHS don't
necessarily play well together, but that is the least of it.

I know about the hybridizer permission rule, it's been very easy to obtain
for all 3 of my RHS registrations. Registering with RHS has been the EASY
part in both award cases (although yes, there is yet another fee involved to
do that) -- the third registration was for a plant that I want to clone even
though it hasn't been awarded. Actually, the info on how to do that part of
it was very readily available when I went looking for it, and I've found the
RHS _very_ easy to deal with -- I send them their form and their $$, they
send me back the registration papers, within a very reasonable time. There
probably are cases of a prior application to name the same grex, but I can't
imagine it's wide-spread.

In any event, there probably are at least a few folks who get awards, that
don't know even these basics, so they should be included when you write up
those instructions.

Large problem is that you are supposed to obtain permission of the
hybridizer to register an award. And there is a fee associated with it.
And if it is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a week
before you do), it gets more complicated. And then there is the whole
species and genera changing names problem... I don't think it would be
easier if AOS was involved.

It's the info on the AOS process that seems to be a closely-guarded secret.
It's been different both times I tried to get an award registered, but in
each case, it's been extremely onerous compared to the RHS registration
process. Each has taken numerous follow-up calls and/or email messages on
my part, and taken more than a year. Written instructions would be at least
a start on remedying this problem. If you write them up, I want a copy for
myself and I think I can make sure they are given out at the WPB judging
center [which happens to be AOS HQ]. You'll take care of it in your area,
maybe K will do it in hers, and the rest of the country will have to fend
for itself G. Kenni


It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit. But
that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...

Rob


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

Rob wrote:
Kenni Judd wrote:

K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that
difficult for AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex
registration (directly from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is
named? Or at least to provide some written instructions to the
exhibitor, with the provisional award? Kenni


Unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that... AOS and RHS
don't necessarily play well together, but that is the least of it. Large
problem is that you are supposed to obtain permission of the hybridizer
to register an award. And there is a fee associated with it. And if it
is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a week before
you do), it gets more complicated. And then there is the whole species
and genera changing names problem... I don't think it would be easier if
AOS was involved.

It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit. But
that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...

Rob




WHAT?

You don't give out instructions on how to register an unnamed hybrid or
how to get an unidentified orchid identified??? Say its not so! Say
I'm misreading that.

K Barrett

Rob -- you've piqued my curiosity (dangerous G).

I can't imagine that this a common occurrence, but please do let me know if
I'm wrong about that. Either way, assume: John Smith and I both get awards
on seedlings of C. A x B. Both of us try hard, but can't find the
hybridizer, and therefore submit our registrations O/U, but Mr. Smith's
papers get there before mine. I would agree that his grex name should take
precedence, but what happens to the award on my "clone"??? I assume but do
not know for sure that RHS would send my registration papers back "rejected"
(hopefully with specifics on the name that got ahead of me ...) If not, how
do I find out? [And yes, I know that's mostly an RHS problem, but it's AOS
that makes my award provisional till I square it with RHS, so I figure AOS
has stuck its foot in it G.]

Kenni


And if it is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a week
before you do), it gets more complicated.

Kenni, ARE YOU KIDDING???? What do you want for your lousy $60. ??????
LOL Bill