You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide form)
that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should get
a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us who
get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower it
eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going to
break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

I've gotten slides of my awards, but I know that not everyone has.
Usually its a matter of housekeeping, the award slide paperwork is as
onerous as submitting health insurance forms. Just about everyone has a
huge backlog. Jeeze, tracking the provisional awards alone can kill you.

K Barrett

Al wrote:
You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide form)
that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should get
a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us who
get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower it
eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going to
break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

I do recall that the slides shows up separately from, and somewhat later
than, award parchment. But they do show up.

"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
I've gotten slides of my awards, but I know that not everyone has. Usually
its a matter of housekeeping, the award slide paperwork is as onerous as
submitting health insurance forms. Just about everyone has a huge
backlog. Jeeze, tracking the provisional awards alone can kill you.

K Barrett

Al wrote:
You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here
in Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation
that you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up several
times just to get the award registered, finally got the certificate about a
year later and never got a slide [and most recently, I'm following up AGAIN
because the award info, which was previously in WildCatt, has somehow
disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor any separate paperwork to
request a copy of the slide, that I can recall. But (no disrespect to the
photographer), I actually didn't care for the award photo on that one and
got one on my own digital camera that I like better.

Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the award
registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her and being
sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being told several
weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has there been any
mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at the judging center
.... again.

Kenni

"Al" wrote in message
...
You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

Well, these were both provisional awards. They are a real bear to
track. I wish more exhibitors were as punctual as you are. Most run
and hide, refuse to pay for the award until we bill them anyway, then
they get off their asses to get the plant identified, registered or what
have you... THEN the paperwork starts through the AOS system, which
takes a minimum of 6 months. In the meantime the AOS photographer has
the slides stored someplace and if no one tells him that the award has
been cleared they just sit and wait until someone asks for the slides.

BTW, your awards are in OrchidWiz.

K Barrett
Kenni Judd wrote:
Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up several
times just to get the award registered, finally got the certificate about a
year later and never got a slide [and most recently, I'm following up AGAIN
because the award info, which was previously in WildCatt, has somehow
disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor any separate paperwork to
request a copy of the slide, that I can recall. But (no disrespect to the
photographer), I actually didn't care for the award photo on that one and
got one on my own digital camera that I like better.

Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the award
registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her and being
sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being told several
weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has there been any
mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at the judging center
... again.

Kenni

"Al" wrote in message
...

You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult for
AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration (directly
from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at least to
provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the provisional
award? Kenni

"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
Well, these were both provisional awards. They are a real bear to track.
I wish more exhibitors were as punctual as you are. Most run and hide,
refuse to pay for the award until we bill them anyway, then they get off
their asses to get the plant identified, registered or what have you...
THEN the paperwork starts through the AOS system, which takes a minimum of
6 months. In the meantime the AOS photographer has the slides stored
someplace and if no one tells him that the award has been cleared they
just sit and wait until someone asks for the slides.

BTW, your awards are in OrchidWiz.

K Barrett
Kenni Judd wrote:
Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS
was provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up
several times just to get the award registered, finally got the
certificate about a year later and never got a slide [and most recently,
I'm following up AGAIN because the award info, which was previously in
WildCatt, has somehow disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor
any separate paperwork to request a copy of the slide, that I can recall.
But (no disrespect to the photographer), I actually didn't care for the
award photo on that one and got one on my own digital camera that I like
better.

Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS
was provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the
award registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her
and being sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being
told several weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has
there been any mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at
the judging center ... again.

Kenni

"Al" wrote in message
...

You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here
in Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation
that you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...

Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even
pay for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for
the slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
again. Kenni


"danny" wrote in message
news
Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the
flower it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides
for every award so that they can be distributed to all of the other
judging centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system
is going to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to
happen.)
-danny

Kenni Judd wrote:
K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult for
AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration (directly
from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at least to
provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the provisional
award? Kenni


Unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that... AOS and RHS
don't necessarily play well together, but that is the least of it.
Large problem is that you are supposed to obtain permission of the
hybridizer to register an award. And there is a fee associated with it.
And if it is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a
week before you do), it gets more complicated. And then there is the
whole species and genera changing names problem... I don't think it
would be easier if AOS was involved.

It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit.
But that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...

Rob


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

Rob: On your first point: AOS and RHS should get together and work
something out. Do they need a mediator??? I could go to England this
summer, on their tab VBG. It REALLY just CAN'T be that hard to implement
some system for a copy of the RHS registration to come to AOS and from there
be sent to the proper person. By email, it would take maybe 30 seconds of
someone's time. And at $60 (the non-AOS-member charge to register an
award), I think that could easily include even a hard copy by mail.

Unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that... AOS and RHS don't
necessarily play well together, but that is the least of it.

I know about the hybridizer permission rule, it's been very easy to obtain
for all 3 of my RHS registrations. Registering with RHS has been the EASY
part in both award cases (although yes, there is yet another fee involved to
do that) -- the third registration was for a plant that I want to clone even
though it hasn't been awarded. Actually, the info on how to do that part of
it was very readily available when I went looking for it, and I've found the
RHS _very_ easy to deal with -- I send them their form and their $$, they
send me back the registration papers, within a very reasonable time. There
probably are cases of a prior application to name the same grex, but I can't
imagine it's wide-spread.

In any event, there probably are at least a few folks who get awards, that
don't know even these basics, so they should be included when you write up
those instructions.

Large problem is that you are supposed to obtain permission of the
hybridizer to register an award. And there is a fee associated with it.
And if it is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a week
before you do), it gets more complicated. And then there is the whole
species and genera changing names problem... I don't think it would be
easier if AOS was involved.

It's the info on the AOS process that seems to be a closely-guarded secret.
It's been different both times I tried to get an award registered, but in
each case, it's been extremely onerous compared to the RHS registration
process. Each has taken numerous follow-up calls and/or email messages on
my part, and taken more than a year. Written instructions would be at least
a start on remedying this problem. If you write them up, I want a copy for
myself and I think I can make sure they are given out at the WPB judging
center [which happens to be AOS HQ]. You'll take care of it in your area,
maybe K will do it in hers, and the rest of the country will have to fend
for itself G. Kenni


It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit. But
that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...

Rob


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:04:25 -0500, "Kenni Judd"
wrote:
..... clip..........
It's the info on the AOS process that seems to be a closely-guarded secret.
It's been different both times I tried to get an award registered, but in
each case, it's been extremely onerous compared to the RHS registration
process. Each has taken numerous follow-up calls and/or email messages on
my part, and taken more than a year. Written instructions would be at least
a start on remedying this problem. If you write them up, I want a copy for
myself and I think I can make sure they are given out at the WPB judging
center [which happens to be AOS HQ]. You'll take care of it in your area,
maybe K will do it in hers, and the rest of the country will have to fend
for itself G. Kenni


Kenni & Rob -
I would love that packet when Rob gets it completed. I can cover
RMJC (Denver).

Rob wrote:
Kenni Judd wrote:

K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that
difficult for AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex
registration (directly from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is
named? Or at least to provide some written instructions to the
exhibitor, with the provisional award? Kenni


Unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that... AOS and RHS
don't necessarily play well together, but that is the least of it. Large
problem is that you are supposed to obtain permission of the hybridizer
to register an award. And there is a fee associated with it. And if it
is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a week before
you do), it gets more complicated. And then there is the whole species
and genera changing names problem... I don't think it would be easier if
AOS was involved.

It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit. But
that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...

Rob




WHAT?

You don't give out instructions on how to register an unnamed hybrid or
how to get an unidentified orchid identified??? Say its not so! Say
I'm misreading that.

K Barrett

K -- Garnet Glory was awarded at the WPB judging center (before HQ was
built), Ocean Storm was awarded at the Delray Beach OS Show. In neither
case did I get anything besides the judging form with the award sticker on
it. Kenni


It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit. But
that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...

Rob




WHAT?

You don't give out instructions on how to register an unnamed hybrid or
how to get an unidentified orchid identified??? Say its not so! Say I'm
misreading that.

K Barrett

K Barrett wrote:
Rob wrote:


You don't give out instructions on how to register an unnamed hybrid or
how to get an unidentified orchid identified??? Say its not so! Say
I'm misreading that.

K Barrett

No, I don't think we do. Of course I or anybody else is always happy to
tell an exhibitor how to go about those things, but we don't have a
piece of paper with instructions on it. If we do, I have never seen it,
and I've had to do both of the above activities more than once for my
own awards.

Now, it could be possible that we have been lulled into complacency.
95% of the things that need identification in our center probably come
from one of two people, and they are both judges. It is trivially easy
to register a new hybrid, if you know who produced it, or at least it
seems that way to all of us 'old hands'. So we may not always think
about the exhibitor who is new to the process or at least new to getting
something registered. Our center chair would of course follow through
on any awards that were still outstanding, she is pretty good about that.

I think it all boils down to experience. The judges have more
experience than most growers, which is to be expected, and unless we
actively think about what other people may _not_ know, it is hard to
anticipate the questions ahead of time. So, for my own purposes, I've
been reminded that not everybody knows how to register a new hybrid, and
I'll make sure to ask and offer assistance. Best I can do... I will
probably bring it up at our next business meeting, as well.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

Rob -- you've piqued my curiosity (dangerous G).

I can't imagine that this a common occurrence, but please do let me know if
I'm wrong about that. Either way, assume: John Smith and I both get awards
on seedlings of C. A x B. Both of us try hard, but can't find the
hybridizer, and therefore submit our registrations O/U, but Mr. Smith's
papers get there before mine. I would agree that his grex name should take
precedence, but what happens to the award on my "clone"??? I assume but do
not know for sure that RHS would send my registration papers back "rejected"
(hopefully with specifics on the name that got ahead of me ...) If not, how
do I find out? [And yes, I know that's mostly an RHS problem, but it's AOS
that makes my award provisional till I square it with RHS, so I figure AOS
has stuck its foot in it G.]

Kenni


And if it is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a week
before you do), it gets more complicated.

Kenni, ARE YOU KIDDING???? What do you want for your lousy $60. ??????
LOL Bill

Kenni Judd wrote:
K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult for
AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration (directly
from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at least to
provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the provisional
award? Kenni



Well, actually, yes it would. How's the RHS gonna know the AOS has
given out a provisional award and needs the new name? Plus, who's
physically gonna do that work? On a daily basis? Me? You? Sit and
wait for an email from the RHS, where someone on that end has to sit and
wait until the check (cheque) clears and the name can be typed up? Then
send it to you or me. Then we then have to retype it into whatever
format we need so the information is useable for print, webpages or
whathave you? Send it to the web master for the webpage, and
disseminate it to Wildactt or Orchidwiz or Bronstein for his program??
Get real.

Hence the need for award programs that are updated frequently. I go to
the RHS site and download the .pdfs for the new registrations, but those
are just 'lists' until I see a plant that I need to know about. And
even then I don't look at them. I look a plant up in Wildcatt or
OrchidWiz. Failing that I look in the Fisher's Bishops, or (last
resort) the index of the latest AQ.

I've been tracking the provisionals for the Pac Central for a year and
its a real pain in the ass. IMHO there's a very few exhibitors who
follow up in a timely manner and even *then* the process seems to take a
year before you see the award published in the AQ and the exhibitor gets
their slide etc. Its not like exhibitors are your employees where you
can hound them every second. "Did you get your work done?? We're on a
dealine you know. You're not being a *team player*, you're dropping the
ball. This is going to delay your award...." You can't do that.

The judges have their own lives, exhibitors have their own lives,
paperwork gets handled as soon as possible, and chased after whenever
you feel like taking on a challenge - like I don't have enough of that
in my life already. By that time, the glow of having gotten a award has
faded, the process becomes "work", and the exhibitor has enough of that
in their lives aleady, so they stall and whine and say they don't want
the award after all. But the photos have already been taken, the film
processed and money has been spent on their plant, so someone's gotta
pay for that. Its maddening.

There's enough blame for how f*cked up the system is on BOTH sides of
the street. A pox on both our houses.

Maybe we should just stop giving awards...

K Barrett