Planning the attack on transplanting and dividing. It's been 2 to 3
years for most of them. They were divided into 6" pots, planted into a
CHC, perlite, and charcoal mix. It's gotten to the point of moving
them up or dividing and staying in the same sized pot.

Has anyone planted in a hanging style wilre basket lined with coco-mat?
Has it worked for you? Would it be better to plant in them or mount
the plant on the outside? I have one that is growing on a bare
cocoliner. Stupid I know, but it was failing in a regular plastic pot.
I put it on the cushion before any more roots could die, they grew to
the the thing while waiting to replant in something that I thought
they'd like.

I have 30 of the 12" welded and dipped baskets with mats. They were on
clearance last fall. I bought them with my larger catts in mind. That
is almost enough to drop on my most aggressive growers. Now I'm not
sure.

I will have to make some mods to my area due to the larger size. Some
will hang, either tilted or flat, some will go back on the bench with a
ring under to keep them from rolling. The bottoms are round, not flat.
Now that's a picture, a bunch of orchids set on little do-nuts or
whoopie cushions so they don't roll around on the bench.

I just thought that the catts that like more drainage or air around the
roots would benefit. I don't know whether the CHC has stayed a little
too wet or they don't like plastic, but the roots haven't gotten and
stayed really mongo until they go over the edge of the pots, or in a
couple of cases the pots blew over spilling abut half the mx. The
humidity in my growing area is high, maybe a little too high. I think
I've only really watered in there 3 or 4 times in 2 months. Nothing
seems to be shrivelling. Roots are growing and the new pseudo bulbs
are starting, just separating from the rhizome to about 3" tall. I
guess I have about a month to decide, but want to have the job done in
March. Probably will be time to start feeding by then, if not sooner.

Oh well, just a couple of questions and thoughts.

Nancy

Hi, Nancy,

A couple of thoughts in return.

First, I have a large Catt in a wire basket with a coco liner and it is
doing fine. However, I use Aliflor for my Catts and peanuts under the
Aliflor. I remember Al writing about his huge C. amethystoglossa (I do mean
huge). He had it in a wire basket with nothing but peanuts for medium. After
all, if these plants were growing wild they'd be bare root.

Second, while I do use CHC (and I like it), I mix in some small Aliflor
along with charcoal and either sponge rock or perlite. But I don't use it
for mature Catts. I *will* use it for the babies, and some of the Epis and
Encyclias love it. CHC wicks up and retains a ton of water, though, and if
you combine that with a plastic pot you have a recipe for water retention.

I don't over water, but I've been amazed at how wet some of the root systems
stay in a CHC mix. I don't use bark mixes at all, since I can't seem to get
a feel for them. Bottom line for me is that I value CHC for stuff other than
Catts.

HTH

Diana

"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
Planning the attack on transplanting and dividing. It's been 2 to 3
years for most of them. They were divided into 6" pots, planted into a
CHC, perlite, and charcoal mix. It's gotten to the point of moving
them up or dividing and staying in the same sized pot.

Has anyone planted in a hanging style wilre basket lined with coco-mat?
Has it worked for you? Would it be better to plant in them or mount
the plant on the outside? I have one that is growing on a bare
cocoliner. Stupid I know, but it was failing in a regular plastic pot.
I put it on the cushion before any more roots could die, they grew to
the the thing while waiting to replant in something that I thought
they'd like.

I have 30 of the 12" welded and dipped baskets with mats. They were on
clearance last fall. I bought them with my larger catts in mind. That
is almost enough to drop on my most aggressive growers. Now I'm not
sure.

I will have to make some mods to my area due to the larger size. Some
will hang, either tilted or flat, some will go back on the bench with a
ring under to keep them from rolling. The bottoms are round, not flat.
Now that's a picture, a bunch of orchids set on little do-nuts or
whoopie cushions so they don't roll around on the bench.

I just thought that the catts that like more drainage or air around the
roots would benefit. I don't know whether the CHC has stayed a little
too wet or they don't like plastic, but the roots haven't gotten and
stayed really mongo until they go over the edge of the pots, or in a
couple of cases the pots blew over spilling abut half the mx. The
humidity in my growing area is high, maybe a little too high. I think
I've only really watered in there 3 or 4 times in 2 months. Nothing
seems to be shrivelling. Roots are growing and the new pseudo bulbs
are starting, just separating from the rhizome to about 3" tall. I
guess I have about a month to decide, but want to have the job done in
March. Probably will be time to start feeding by then, if not sooner.

Oh well, just a couple of questions and thoughts.

Nancy

The cattleya in question here is in a huge wire basket lined with 1/2 inch
plastic coated wire mesh to fit the form. It can be bought in a hardware
store. I also broke up a bunch of clay pots and used the large shards to
line the basket and then filled it with packing peanuts and topped it with
bark to keep the peanuts from washing/blowing away. This plant is in spike,
nine or ten leads right now.

I have a few in wire baskets that are lined in coconut mat liners and filled
with 1 inch chunky bark/charcoal/perlite. I think the coconut mat stays a
bit too damp and restricts airflow a bit more than I would like, but it
works. I much prefer the plastic coated wire mesh method of lining the
baskets to keep the potting media in.

..
"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
.. .
Hi, Nancy,

A couple of thoughts in return.

First, I have a large Catt in a wire basket with a coco liner and it is
doing fine. However, I use Aliflor for my Catts and peanuts under the
Aliflor. I remember Al writing about his huge C. amethystoglossa (I do
mean huge). He had it in a wire basket with nothing but peanuts for
medium. After all, if these plants were growing wild they'd be bare root.

Second, while I do use CHC (and I like it), I mix in some small Aliflor
along with charcoal and either sponge rock or perlite. But I don't use it
for mature Catts. I *will* use it for the babies, and some of the Epis and
Encyclias love it. CHC wicks up and retains a ton of water, though, and if
you combine that with a plastic pot you have a recipe for water retention.

I don't over water, but I've been amazed at how wet some of the root
systems stay in a CHC mix. I don't use bark mixes at all, since I can't
seem to get a feel for them. Bottom line for me is that I value CHC for
stuff other than Catts.

HTH

Diana

"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
Planning the attack on transplanting and dividing. It's been 2 to 3
years for most of them. They were divided into 6" pots, planted into a
CHC, perlite, and charcoal mix. It's gotten to the point of moving
them up or dividing and staying in the same sized pot.

Has anyone planted in a hanging style wilre basket lined with coco-mat?
Has it worked for you? Would it be better to plant in them or mount
the plant on the outside? I have one that is growing on a bare
cocoliner. Stupid I know, but it was failing in a regular plastic pot.
I put it on the cushion before any more roots could die, they grew to
the the thing while waiting to replant in something that I thought
they'd like.

I have 30 of the 12" welded and dipped baskets with mats. They were on
clearance last fall. I bought them with my larger catts in mind. That
is almost enough to drop on my most aggressive growers. Now I'm not
sure.

I will have to make some mods to my area due to the larger size. Some
will hang, either tilted or flat, some will go back on the bench with a
ring under to keep them from rolling. The bottoms are round, not flat.
Now that's a picture, a bunch of orchids set on little do-nuts or
whoopie cushions so they don't roll around on the bench.

I just thought that the catts that like more drainage or air around the
roots would benefit. I don't know whether the CHC has stayed a little
too wet or they don't like plastic, but the roots haven't gotten and
stayed really mongo until they go over the edge of the pots, or in a
couple of cases the pots blew over spilling abut half the mx. The
humidity in my growing area is high, maybe a little too high. I think
I've only really watered in there 3 or 4 times in 2 months. Nothing
seems to be shrivelling. Roots are growing and the new pseudo bulbs
are starting, just separating from the rhizome to about 3" tall. I
guess I have about a month to decide, but want to have the job done in
March. Probably will be time to start feeding by then, if not sooner.

Oh well, just a couple of questions and thoughts.

Nancy

A few thoughts from me, as well:

Planting in those coco fiber-lined baskets is no issue, except for the
rolly-polly nature of the baskets if used on a bench, as you've pointed out.
I suggest potting your plants in them, rather than on the outside. They'll
ultimately get there anyway...

The rest of your comments/questions and both Diana's and Al's responses all
seem to be related to "air management", and we need to think of the
combination of medium, pot, and water when potting plants up. Water,
itself, does not cause root rot - suffocation does - but it can lead to
clogged air passageways as the medium swells upon wetting or simply as
bridging water droplets between the particles, which is more of an issue
with dense media, whether that be from the particle sizes used of as it gets
more compact over time.

If CHC/perlite/charcoal in plastic seems to be too suffocating for the
plants' roots, you can do something as simple as watering less often,
switching to clay pots, which dry faster, and/or my preferred methodology,
follow Diana's lead of modifying the mix so it stays more open and holds
less moisture to begin with. That could be using coarser particles, fewer
or different components, or in a different set of proportions.

The coco "pot" will be more porous than clay, which is more porous than
plastic, so that's one set of controls you have, but still think of the
overall package of pot + medium + water as the set of variables to play
with.

Oh yeah... Assuming you hang those baskets, rather than setting them in the
mouth of a large pot to keep them on the bench, you will be dealing with
more air flow around the pot, which again improves the gas exchange within
the medium, and if they're in the turbulence of circulator fans, it's even
greater.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
Planning the attack on transplanting and dividing. It's been 2 to 3
years for most of them. They were divided into 6" pots, planted into a
CHC, perlite, and charcoal mix. It's gotten to the point of moving
them up or dividing and staying in the same sized pot.

Has anyone planted in a hanging style wilre basket lined with coco-mat?
Has it worked for you? Would it be better to plant in them or mount
the plant on the outside? I have one that is growing on a bare
cocoliner. Stupid I know, but it was failing in a regular plastic pot.
I put it on the cushion before any more roots could die, they grew to
the the thing while waiting to replant in something that I thought
they'd like.

I have 30 of the 12" welded and dipped baskets with mats. They were on
clearance last fall. I bought them with my larger catts in mind. That
is almost enough to drop on my most aggressive growers. Now I'm not
sure.

I will have to make some mods to my area due to the larger size. Some
will hang, either tilted or flat, some will go back on the bench with a
ring under to keep them from rolling. The bottoms are round, not flat.
Now that's a picture, a bunch of orchids set on little do-nuts or
whoopie cushions so they don't roll around on the bench.

I just thought that the catts that like more drainage or air around the
roots would benefit. I don't know whether the CHC has stayed a little
too wet or they don't like plastic, but the roots haven't gotten and
stayed really mongo until they go over the edge of the pots, or in a
couple of cases the pots blew over spilling abut half the mx. The
humidity in my growing area is high, maybe a little too high. I think
I've only really watered in there 3 or 4 times in 2 months. Nothing
seems to be shrivelling. Roots are growing and the new pseudo bulbs
are starting, just separating from the rhizome to about 3" tall. I
guess I have about a month to decide, but want to have the job done in
March. Probably will be time to start feeding by then, if not sooner.

Oh well, just a couple of questions and thoughts.

Nancy

I'm dealing with 2 extremes. The winter has turned out to be better
this year. Heaters keep the minimum at 60 F, the room keeps the
humidity at 65% to 75% humidity. Fans (tower type) are at opposite
ends of the room (roughly 20 ' apart). One is set on a table and
forces air at 5 to 7' level, the other on the floor at between knee and
waist level. It seems to break up the thermal layering and keep the
air movement okay except in the opposite corner behind the fan. They
are on 24 and 7. During the autumn and spring windows and doors may be
openned as light and temperature dictate, but the fans remain. It's
much easier to water when needed. Walk through and decide. Too
cloudy, late,cool, not today. As said before, hasn't needed much water
for any of them, little more for the paphs, phals, and phrags.

The past two summers have been brutal. The orchids were outside. The
catts partially shaded by trees, but the temps were in the 100's. It
was also regionally dry, so natural humidity was low from Missouri
norms. I had sprinklers on timers for 2X a day. Early morning, early
evening. Any feeding and spraying was mid afternoon after the tables
were shaded, would override the program and sprinkle before feeding,
about 3 hours before the evening sprinkler. The sunnier end of the
zone would get dry, the shadier end would stay wet in plastic. The
mounts, baskets, and clay pots (only have 6 in clay now) were in the
shady area.

I'm looking for a way to buffer the roots from the elements (mostly
summer). Ammending the mix is no problem. Currently in 4 parts medium
CHC, 1 part #4 perlite, 1 part coarse charcoal. Easy enough to shift
to a 3-2-1 or 2-2-1, or use black lava in the place of perlite (it
isn't much larger) or some other aggregate. I can perforate the liner
and intend on washing it anyway to help loosen the bonding agent that
was used in the manufacture. Right now time is in my favor. I don't
have to commit to all 30 baskets either, try a few and see how it
works.

I've got some phals, phrags, and some other misc in PA S/H. Some love
it, some are so-so, some are going crazy with aerial roots. I probably
haven't gotten it right yet. Should make a list, take pictures, and
ask you. Then again, maybe there is just no good way under the
extremes I'm trying to grow under. Too cold, too hot, hard water, you
name it. Usually I flush with rainwater, last summer, no rain.
Artificial plants and cacti were dieing. The rainwater collected was
used exclusively on Paphs and phrags, and I still ran out. Carried
water from the lake for them in 5 gallon buckets. When it finally
rained, everything perked up considerably. Cooler, wetter, cleaner.

I started in ignorance with orchids 8 years ago. Now I don't know
whether I'm still ignorant, stupid, or crazy. Sometimes in spite of me
they bloom and I do know that I still get a rush when that happens. I
may need to break out some cheese to go with this w(h)ine.

Thanks, Nancy

Ray B wrote:
A few thoughts from me, as well:

Planting in those coco fiber-lined baskets is no issue, except for the
rolly-polly nature of the baskets if used on a bench, as you've pointed out.
I suggest potting your plants in them, rather than on the outside. They'll
ultimately get there anyway...

The rest of your comments/questions and both Diana's and Al's responses all
seem to be related to "air management", and we need to think of the
combination of medium, pot, and water when potting plants up. Water,
itself, does not cause root rot - suffocation does - but it can lead to
clogged air passageways as the medium swells upon wetting or simply as
bridging water droplets between the particles, which is more of an issue
with dense media, whether that be from the particle sizes used of as it gets
more compact over time.

If CHC/perlite/charcoal in plastic seems to be too suffocating for the
plants' roots, you can do something as simple as watering less often,
switching to clay pots, which dry faster, and/or my preferred methodology,
follow Diana's lead of modifying the mix so it stays more open and holds
less moisture to begin with. That could be using coarser particles, fewer
or different components, or in a different set of proportions.

The coco "pot" will be more porous than clay, which is more porous than
plastic, so that's one set of controls you have, but still think of the
overall package of pot + medium + water as the set of variables to play
with.

Oh yeah... Assuming you hang those baskets, rather than setting them in the
mouth of a large pot to keep them on the bench, you will be dealing with
more air flow around the pot, which again improves the gas exchange within
the medium, and if they're in the turbulence of circulator fans, it's even
greater.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
Planning the attack on transplanting and dividing. It's been 2 to 3
years for most of them. They were divided into 6" pots, planted into a
CHC, perlite, and charcoal mix. It's gotten to the point of moving
them up or dividing and staying in the same sized pot.

Has anyone planted in a hanging style wilre basket lined with coco-mat?
Has it worked for you? Would it be better to plant in them or mount
the plant on the outside? I have one that is growing on a bare
cocoliner. Stupid I know, but it was failing in a regular plastic pot.
I put it on the cushion before any more roots could die, they grew to
the the thing while waiting to replant in something that I thought
they'd like.

I have 30 of the 12" welded and dipped baskets with mats. They were on
clearance last fall. I bought them with my larger catts in mind. That
is almost enough to drop on my most aggressive growers. Now I'm not
sure.

I will have to make some mods to my area due to the larger size. Some
will hang, either tilted or flat, some will go back on the bench with a
ring under to keep them from rolling. The bottoms are round, not flat.
Now that's a picture, a bunch of orchids set on little do-nuts or
whoopie cushions so they don't roll around on the bench.

I just thought that the catts that like more drainage or air around the
roots would benefit. I don't know whether the CHC has stayed a little
too wet or they don't like plastic, but the roots haven't gotten and
stayed really mongo until they go over the edge of the pots, or in a
couple of cases the pots blew over spilling abut half the mx. The
humidity in my growing area is high, maybe a little too high. I think
I've only really watered in there 3 or 4 times in 2 months. Nothing
seems to be shrivelling. Roots are growing and the new pseudo bulbs
are starting, just separating from the rhizome to about 3" tall. I
guess I have about a month to decide, but want to have the job done in
March. Probably will be time to start feeding by then, if not sooner.

Oh well, just a couple of questions and thoughts.

Nancy

I've been growing orchids for 35 years or so, and I still don't know if I
"get it right" sometimes, either!

I'm not sure what you're meaning when you say you want something to "buffer
the roots". A plant in nature has its root system generally hanging out in
the same conditions and exposure as the rest of the plant.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm dealing with 2 extremes. The winter has turned out to be better
this year. Heaters keep the minimum at 60 F, the room keeps the
humidity at 65% to 75% humidity. Fans (tower type) are at opposite
ends of the room (roughly 20 ' apart). One is set on a table and
forces air at 5 to 7' level, the other on the floor at between knee and
waist level. It seems to break up the thermal layering and keep the
air movement okay except in the opposite corner behind the fan. They
are on 24 and 7. During the autumn and spring windows and doors may be
openned as light and temperature dictate, but the fans remain. It's
much easier to water when needed. Walk through and decide. Too
cloudy, late,cool, not today. As said before, hasn't needed much water
for any of them, little more for the paphs, phals, and phrags.

The past two summers have been brutal. The orchids were outside. The
catts partially shaded by trees, but the temps were in the 100's. It
was also regionally dry, so natural humidity was low from Missouri
norms. I had sprinklers on timers for 2X a day. Early morning, early
evening. Any feeding and spraying was mid afternoon after the tables
were shaded, would override the program and sprinkle before feeding,
about 3 hours before the evening sprinkler. The sunnier end of the
zone would get dry, the shadier end would stay wet in plastic. The
mounts, baskets, and clay pots (only have 6 in clay now) were in the
shady area.

I'm looking for a way to buffer the roots from the elements (mostly
summer). Ammending the mix is no problem. Currently in 4 parts medium
CHC, 1 part #4 perlite, 1 part coarse charcoal. Easy enough to shift
to a 3-2-1 or 2-2-1, or use black lava in the place of perlite (it
isn't much larger) or some other aggregate. I can perforate the liner
and intend on washing it anyway to help loosen the bonding agent that
was used in the manufacture. Right now time is in my favor. I don't
have to commit to all 30 baskets either, try a few and see how it
works.

I've got some phals, phrags, and some other misc in PA S/H. Some love
it, some are so-so, some are going crazy with aerial roots. I probably
haven't gotten it right yet. Should make a list, take pictures, and
ask you. Then again, maybe there is just no good way under the
extremes I'm trying to grow under. Too cold, too hot, hard water, you
name it. Usually I flush with rainwater, last summer, no rain.
Artificial plants and cacti were dieing. The rainwater collected was
used exclusively on Paphs and phrags, and I still ran out. Carried
water from the lake for them in 5 gallon buckets. When it finally
rained, everything perked up considerably. Cooler, wetter, cleaner.

I started in ignorance with orchids 8 years ago. Now I don't know
whether I'm still ignorant, stupid, or crazy. Sometimes in spite of me
they bloom and I do know that I still get a rush when that happens. I
may need to break out some cheese to go with this w(h)ine.

Thanks, Nancy

Ray B wrote:
A few thoughts from me, as well:

Planting in those coco fiber-lined baskets is no issue, except for the
rolly-polly nature of the baskets if used on a bench, as you've pointed
out.
I suggest potting your plants in them, rather than on the outside.
They'll
ultimately get there anyway...

The rest of your comments/questions and both Diana's and Al's responses
all
seem to be related to "air management", and we need to think of the
combination of medium, pot, and water when potting plants up. Water,
itself, does not cause root rot - suffocation does - but it can lead to
clogged air passageways as the medium swells upon wetting or simply as
bridging water droplets between the particles, which is more of an issue
with dense media, whether that be from the particle sizes used of as it
gets
more compact over time.

If CHC/perlite/charcoal in plastic seems to be too suffocating for the
plants' roots, you can do something as simple as watering less often,
switching to clay pots, which dry faster, and/or my preferred
methodology,
follow Diana's lead of modifying the mix so it stays more open and holds
less moisture to begin with. That could be using coarser particles,
fewer
or different components, or in a different set of proportions.

The coco "pot" will be more porous than clay, which is more porous than
plastic, so that's one set of controls you have, but still think of the
overall package of pot + medium + water as the set of variables to play
with.

Oh yeah... Assuming you hang those baskets, rather than setting them in
the
mouth of a large pot to keep them on the bench, you will be dealing with
more air flow around the pot, which again improves the gas exchange
within
the medium, and if they're in the turbulence of circulator fans, it's
even
greater.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
Planning the attack on transplanting and dividing. It's been 2 to 3
years for most of them. They were divided into 6" pots, planted into a
CHC, perlite, and charcoal mix. It's gotten to the point of moving
them up or dividing and staying in the same sized pot.

Has anyone planted in a hanging style wilre basket lined with coco-mat?
Has it worked for you? Would it be better to plant in them or mount
the plant on the outside? I have one that is growing on a bare
cocoliner. Stupid I know, but it was failing in a regular plastic pot.
I put it on the cushion before any more roots could die, they grew to
the the thing while waiting to replant in something that I thought
they'd like.

I have 30 of the 12" welded and dipped baskets with mats. They were on
clearance last fall. I bought them with my larger catts in mind. That
is almost enough to drop on my most aggressive growers. Now I'm not
sure.

I will have to make some mods to my area due to the larger size. Some
will hang, either tilted or flat, some will go back on the bench with a
ring under to keep them from rolling. The bottoms are round, not flat.
Now that's a picture, a bunch of orchids set on little do-nuts or
whoopie cushions so they don't roll around on the bench.

I just thought that the catts that like more drainage or air around the
roots would benefit. I don't know whether the CHC has stayed a little
too wet or they don't like plastic, but the roots haven't gotten and
stayed really mongo until they go over the edge of the pots, or in a
couple of cases the pots blew over spilling abut half the mx. The
humidity in my growing area is high, maybe a little too high. I think
I've only really watered in there 3 or 4 times in 2 months. Nothing
seems to be shrivelling. Roots are growing and the new pseudo bulbs
are starting, just separating from the rhizome to about 3" tall. I
guess I have about a month to decide, but want to have the job done in
March. Probably will be time to start feeding by then, if not sooner.

Oh well, just a couple of questions and thoughts.

Nancy

In terms of buffering the roots, or ameliorating the effect of high
(100degree) heat to the roots, there's alot to be said for growing in
sphagnum moss and clay pots and using the effect of evaporation and cooling
the pot to help the roots through summer heat. Alan Koch grows his mini
catts (granted Nancy is talking about standard catts here - LARGE standard
catts) in sphagnum and clay and the roots do not adhere to the pot. They
twist right out of the pot and he just wraps more moss around the plant and
snugs them into a larger clay pot when transplanting. Jerry Rodder grew
many of his plants (dendrobiums, vandas, cattleyas, paphs) in coir in order
to mitigate the effect of the high (100-114 degree) temps at which he grew
his orchids (I say 'grew' becasue I don't know whether Jerry is still in the
hobby. After his heart was broken by Federal regualtions on selling Jerry's
Grow he sort of stopped coming to shows.) Jerry also had a fantastic
misting system. Both these guys sort of look at growing orchids like a
chemical equation. Light plus temps plus water plus food = plants and
blooms. If you push the heat up then all other factors have to follow.
Which brings us back to whatever works for you works for you, *G*.

K Barrett

"Ray B" wrote in message
news:kQLmh.8946$Ap5.5741@trnddc04...
I've been growing orchids for 35 years or so, and I still don't know if I
"get it right" sometimes, either!

I'm not sure what you're meaning when you say you want something to
"buffer the roots". A plant in nature has its root system generally
hanging out in the same conditions and exposure as the rest of the plant.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm dealing with 2 extremes. The winter has turned out to be better
this year. Heaters keep the minimum at 60 F, the room keeps the
humidity at 65% to 75% humidity. Fans (tower type) are at opposite
ends of the room (roughly 20 ' apart). One is set on a table and
forces air at 5 to 7' level, the other on the floor at between knee and
waist level. It seems to break up the thermal layering and keep the
air movement okay except in the opposite corner behind the fan. They
are on 24 and 7. During the autumn and spring windows and doors may be
openned as light and temperature dictate, but the fans remain. It's
much easier to water when needed. Walk through and decide. Too
cloudy, late,cool, not today. As said before, hasn't needed much water
for any of them, little more for the paphs, phals, and phrags.

The past two summers have been brutal. The orchids were outside. The
catts partially shaded by trees, but the temps were in the 100's. It
was also regionally dry, so natural humidity was low from Missouri
norms. I had sprinklers on timers for 2X a day. Early morning, early
evening. Any feeding and spraying was mid afternoon after the tables
were shaded, would override the program and sprinkle before feeding,
about 3 hours before the evening sprinkler. The sunnier end of the
zone would get dry, the shadier end would stay wet in plastic. The
mounts, baskets, and clay pots (only have 6 in clay now) were in the
shady area.

I'm looking for a way to buffer the roots from the elements (mostly
summer). Ammending the mix is no problem. Currently in 4 parts medium
CHC, 1 part #4 perlite, 1 part coarse charcoal. Easy enough to shift
to a 3-2-1 or 2-2-1, or use black lava in the place of perlite (it
isn't much larger) or some other aggregate. I can perforate the liner
and intend on washing it anyway to help loosen the bonding agent that
was used in the manufacture. Right now time is in my favor. I don't
have to commit to all 30 baskets either, try a few and see how it
works.

I've got some phals, phrags, and some other misc in PA S/H. Some love
it, some are so-so, some are going crazy with aerial roots. I probably
haven't gotten it right yet. Should make a list, take pictures, and
ask you. Then again, maybe there is just no good way under the
extremes I'm trying to grow under. Too cold, too hot, hard water, you
name it. Usually I flush with rainwater, last summer, no rain.
Artificial plants and cacti were dieing. The rainwater collected was
used exclusively on Paphs and phrags, and I still ran out. Carried
water from the lake for them in 5 gallon buckets. When it finally
rained, everything perked up considerably. Cooler, wetter, cleaner.

I started in ignorance with orchids 8 years ago. Now I don't know
whether I'm still ignorant, stupid, or crazy. Sometimes in spite of me
they bloom and I do know that I still get a rush when that happens. I
may need to break out some cheese to go with this w(h)ine.

Thanks, Nancy

Ray B wrote:
A few thoughts from me, as well:

Planting in those coco fiber-lined baskets is no issue, except for the
rolly-polly nature of the baskets if used on a bench, as you've pointed
out.
I suggest potting your plants in them, rather than on the outside.
They'll
ultimately get there anyway...

The rest of your comments/questions and both Diana's and Al's responses
all
seem to be related to "air management", and we need to think of the
combination of medium, pot, and water when potting plants up. Water,
itself, does not cause root rot - suffocation does - but it can lead to
clogged air passageways as the medium swells upon wetting or simply as
bridging water droplets between the particles, which is more of an issue
with dense media, whether that be from the particle sizes used of as it
gets
more compact over time.

If CHC/perlite/charcoal in plastic seems to be too suffocating for the
plants' roots, you can do something as simple as watering less often,
switching to clay pots, which dry faster, and/or my preferred
methodology,
follow Diana's lead of modifying the mix so it stays more open and holds
less moisture to begin with. That could be using coarser particles,
fewer
or different components, or in a different set of proportions.

The coco "pot" will be more porous than clay, which is more porous than
plastic, so that's one set of controls you have, but still think of the
overall package of pot + medium + water as the set of variables to play
with.

Oh yeah... Assuming you hang those baskets, rather than setting them in
the
mouth of a large pot to keep them on the bench, you will be dealing with
more air flow around the pot, which again improves the gas exchange
within
the medium, and if they're in the turbulence of circulator fans, it's
even
greater.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
Planning the attack on transplanting and dividing. It's been 2 to 3
years for most of them. They were divided into 6" pots, planted into
a
CHC, perlite, and charcoal mix. It's gotten to the point of moving
them up or dividing and staying in the same sized pot.

Has anyone planted in a hanging style wilre basket lined with
coco-mat?
Has it worked for you? Would it be better to plant in them or mount
the plant on the outside? I have one that is growing on a bare
cocoliner. Stupid I know, but it was failing in a regular plastic
pot.
I put it on the cushion before any more roots could die, they grew to
the the thing while waiting to replant in something that I thought
they'd like.

I have 30 of the 12" welded and dipped baskets with mats. They were
on
clearance last fall. I bought them with my larger catts in mind.
That
is almost enough to drop on my most aggressive growers. Now I'm not
sure.

I will have to make some mods to my area due to the larger size. Some
will hang, either tilted or flat, some will go back on the bench with
a
ring under to keep them from rolling. The bottoms are round, not
flat.
Now that's a picture, a bunch of orchids set on little do-nuts or
whoopie cushions so they don't roll around on the bench.

I just thought that the catts that like more drainage or air around
the
roots would benefit. I don't know whether the CHC has stayed a
little
too wet or they don't like plastic, but the roots haven't gotten and
stayed really mongo until they go over the edge of the pots, or in a
couple of cases the pots blew over spilling abut half the mx. The
humidity in my growing area is high, maybe a little too high. I think
I've only really watered in there 3 or 4 times in 2 months. Nothing
seems to be shrivelling. Roots are growing and the new pseudo bulbs
are starting, just separating from the rhizome to about 3" tall. I
guess I have about a month to decide, but want to have the job done in
March. Probably will be time to start feeding by then, if not sooner.

Oh well, just a couple of questions and thoughts.

Nancy

Oh no, I missed that one. Never ever ordered any of his fert but meant to
try it? What happened?

--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

K Barrett wrote:
In terms of buffering the roots, or ameliorating the effect of high
(100degree) heat to the roots, there's alot to be said for growing in
sphagnum moss and clay pots and using the effect of evaporation and
cooling the pot to help the roots through summer heat. Alan Koch
grows his mini catts (granted Nancy is talking about standard catts
here - LARGE standard catts) in sphagnum and clay and the roots do
not adhere to the pot. They twist right out of the pot and he just
wraps more moss around the plant and snugs them into a larger clay
pot when transplanting. Jerry Rodder grew many of his plants
(dendrobiums, vandas, cattleyas, paphs) in coir in order to mitigate
the effect of the high (100-114 degree) temps at which he grew his
orchids (I say 'grew' becasue I don't know whether Jerry is still in
the hobby. After his heart was broken by Federal regualtions on
selling Jerry's Grow he sort of stopped coming to shows.) Jerry also
had a fantastic misting system. Both these guys sort of look at
growing orchids like a chemical equation. Light plus temps plus
water plus food = plants and blooms. If you push the heat up then
all other factors have to follow. Which brings us back to whatever
works for you works for you, *G*.
K Barrett

"Ray B" wrote in message
news:kQLmh.8946$Ap5.5741@trnddc04...
I've been growing orchids for 35 years or so, and I still don't know
if I "get it right" sometimes, either!

I'm not sure what you're meaning when you say you want something to
"buffer the roots". A plant in nature has its root system generally
hanging out in the same conditions and exposure as the rest of the
plant. --

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm dealing with 2 extremes. The winter has turned out to be better
this year. Heaters keep the minimum at 60 F, the room keeps the
humidity at 65% to 75% humidity. Fans (tower type) are at opposite
ends of the room (roughly 20 ' apart). One is set on a table and
forces air at 5 to 7' level, the other on the floor at between knee
and waist level. It seems to break up the thermal layering and
keep the air movement okay except in the opposite corner behind the
fan. They are on 24 and 7. During the autumn and spring windows
and doors may be openned as light and temperature dictate, but the
fans remain. It's much easier to water when needed. Walk through
and decide. Too cloudy, late,cool, not today. As said before,
hasn't needed much water for any of them, little more for the
paphs, phals, and phrags. The past two summers have been brutal. The orchids were
outside. The catts partially shaded by trees, but the temps were in the
100's. It was also regionally dry, so natural humidity was low
from Missouri norms. I had sprinklers on timers for 2X a day. Early morning,
early evening. Any feeding and spraying was mid
afternoon after the tables were shaded, would override the program
and sprinkle before feeding, about 3 hours before the evening
sprinkler. The sunnier end of the zone would get dry, the shadier
end would stay wet in plastic. The mounts, baskets, and clay pots
(only have 6 in clay now) were in the shady area.

I'm looking for a way to buffer the roots from the elements (mostly
summer). Ammending the mix is no problem. Currently in 4 parts
medium CHC, 1 part #4 perlite, 1 part coarse charcoal. Easy enough
to shift to a 3-2-1 or 2-2-1, or use black lava in the place of
perlite (it isn't much larger) or some other aggregate. I can
perforate the liner and intend on washing it anyway to help loosen
the bonding agent that was used in the manufacture. Right now time
is in my favor. I don't have to commit to all 30 baskets either,
try a few and see how it works.

I've got some phals, phrags, and some other misc in PA S/H. Some
love it, some are so-so, some are going crazy with aerial roots. I
probably haven't gotten it right yet. Should make a list, take
pictures, and ask you. Then again, maybe there is just no good way
under the extremes I'm trying to grow under. Too cold, too hot,
hard water, you name it. Usually I flush with rainwater, last
summer, no rain. Artificial plants and cacti were dieing. The
rainwater collected was used exclusively on Paphs and phrags, and I
still ran out. Carried water from the lake for them in 5 gallon
buckets. When it finally rained, everything perked up
considerably. Cooler, wetter, cleaner. I started in ignorance with orchids 8
years ago. Now I don't know
whether I'm still ignorant, stupid, or crazy. Sometimes in spite
of me they bloom and I do know that I still get a rush when that
happens. I may need to break out some cheese to go with this
w(h)ine. Thanks, Nancy

Ray B wrote:
A few thoughts from me, as well:

Planting in those coco fiber-lined baskets is no issue, except for
the rolly-polly nature of the baskets if used on a bench, as
you've pointed out.
I suggest potting your plants in them, rather than on the outside.
They'll
ultimately get there anyway...

The rest of your comments/questions and both Diana's and Al's
responses all
seem to be related to "air management", and we need to think of the
combination of medium, pot, and water when potting plants up. Water, itself, does
not cause root rot - suffocation does - but it
can lead to clogged air passageways as the medium swells upon
wetting or simply as bridging water droplets between the
particles, which is more of an issue with dense media, whether
that be from the particle sizes used of as it gets
more compact over time.

If CHC/perlite/charcoal in plastic seems to be too suffocating for
the plants' roots, you can do something as simple as watering less
often, switching to clay pots, which dry faster, and/or my
preferred methodology,
follow Diana's lead of modifying the mix so it stays more open and
holds less moisture to begin with. That could be using coarser
particles, fewer
or different components, or in a different set of proportions.

The coco "pot" will be more porous than clay, which is more porous
than plastic, so that's one set of controls you have, but still
think of the overall package of pot + medium + water as the set of
variables to play with.

Oh yeah... Assuming you hang those baskets, rather than setting
them in the
mouth of a large pot to keep them on the bench, you will be
dealing with more air flow around the pot, which again improves
the gas exchange within
the medium, and if they're in the turbulence of circulator fans,
it's even
greater.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Nancy G." wrote in message
ups.com...
Planning the attack on transplanting and dividing. It's been 2
to 3 years for most of them. They were divided into 6" pots,
planted into a
CHC, perlite, and charcoal mix. It's gotten to the point of
moving them up or dividing and staying in the same sized pot.

Has anyone planted in a hanging style wilre basket lined with
coco-mat?
Has it worked for you? Would it be better to plant in them or
mount the plant on the outside? I have one that is growing on a
bare cocoliner. Stupid I know, but it was failing in a regular
plastic pot.
I put it on the cushion before any more roots could die, they
grew to the the thing while waiting to replant in something that
I thought they'd like.

I have 30 of the 12" welded and dipped baskets with mats. They
were on
clearance last fall. I bought them with my larger catts in mind.
That
is almost enough to drop on my most aggressive growers. Now I'm
not sure.

I will have to make some mods to my area due to the larger size. Some will hang,
either tilted or flat, some will go back on the
bench with a
ring under to keep them from rolling. The bottoms are round, not
flat.
Now that's a picture, a bunch of orchids set on little do-nuts or
whoopie cushions so they don't roll around on the bench.

I just thought that the catts that like more drainage or air
around the
roots would benefit. I don't know whether the CHC has stayed a
little
too wet or they don't like plastic, but the roots haven't gotten
and stayed really mongo until they go over the edge of the pots,
or in a couple of cases the pots blew over spilling abut half the
mx. The humidity in my growing area is high, maybe a little too
high. I think I've only really watered in there 3 or 4 times in
2 months. Nothing seems to be shrivelling. Roots are growing
and the new pseudo bulbs are starting, just separating from the
rhizome to about 3" tall. I guess I have about a month to
decide, but want to have the job done in March. Probably will be
time to start feeding by then, if not sooner. Oh well, just a couple of
questions and thoughts.

Nancy

It was one thing after another. Starting with the name 'Wundergrow' having
been trademarked by Beall many years ago, so he had to change to Jerry's
Grow, then the whole labelling nonsense and the sending fertilizer thru the
mail problems etc (post Tim McVeigh, IIRC). He just got sick of it - oh
yeah the county made him rent space instead of working out od his house, and
then a lot of beurocratic crapola. Just like being nibbled to death by
ducks.
"wendy7" wrote in message
...
Oh no, I missed that one. Never ever ordered any of his fert but meant to
try it? What happened?

--
Cheers Wendy

On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:10:04 -0800 in K Barrett wrote:
It was one thing after another. Starting with the name 'Wundergrow' having
been trademarked by Beall many years ago, so he had to change to Jerry's
Grow, then the whole labelling nonsense and the sending fertilizer thru the
mail problems etc (post Tim McVeigh, IIRC). He just got sick of it - oh
yeah the county made him rent space instead of working out od his house, and
then a lot of beurocratic crapola. Just like being nibbled to death by
ducks.

Ob B5....

Londo Mollari: But this this, this, this is like being nibbled to death by, uh Pah! What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet go "quack".
Vir Cotto: Cats.
Londo Mollari: Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats.

--
Chris Dukes
elfick willg: you can't use dell to beat people, it wouldn't stand up
to the strain... much like attacking a tank with a wiffle bat

wrote in message
g...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:10:04 -0800 in
K Barrett
wrote:
It was one thing after another. Starting with the name 'Wundergrow'
having
been trademarked by Beall many years ago, so he had to change to Jerry's
Grow, then the whole labelling nonsense and the sending fertilizer thru
the
mail problems etc (post Tim McVeigh, IIRC). He just got sick of it - oh
yeah the county made him rent space instead of working out od his house,
and
then a lot of beurocratic crapola. Just like being nibbled to death by
ducks.

Ob B5....

Londo Mollari: But this this, this, this is like being nibbled to death
by, uh Pah! What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill,
webbed feet go "quack".
Vir Cotto: Cats.
Londo Mollari: Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats.

--
Chris Dukes
elfick willg: you can't use dell to beat people, it wouldn't stand up
to the strain... much like attacking a tank with a wiffle bat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londo_Mollari

and wasn't Vir played by Billy Mumy?

My broinlaw made some of B5's special effects programming - IIRC it was
called Lightwave. Have no idea what he's into now since my sister and I
aren't speaking (its a long story). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightwave

Small World,

K Barrett

On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:43:56 -0800 in K Barrett wrote:
wrote in message
Ob B5....

Londo Mollari: But this this, this, this is like being nibbled to death
by, uh Pah! What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill,
webbed feet go "quack".
Vir Cotto: Cats.
Londo Mollari: Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londo_Mollari

and wasn't Vir played by Billy Mumy?

Vir was played by Stephen Furst (Animal House's "Flounder")
Young Will Robinson played Lennier...

My broinlaw made some of B5's special effects programming - IIRC it was
called Lightwave. Have no idea what he's into now since my sister and I
aren't speaking (its a long story). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightwave

Small World,

I found small world syndrome entirely too weird the day I caught a support
call from Ward Christensen.

--
Chris Dukes
elfick willg: you can't use dell to beat people, it wouldn't stand up
to the strain... much like attacking a tank with a wiffle bat