i am starting to get confused ,as a lot of growers use different methods &
give different answers!i have read in the RHS garden encylopedia(which is
like a bible for gardeners)that pine or fir bark are a excellent potting
medium with some additions to keep the mixture open & prevent it from
becoming sour.a suitable compost mix is as follows:3 parts medium grade
bark(dust free),1 part coarse grit or perlite,1 part charcoal pieces and 1
part broken dry leaves or fibrous peat substitute or peat.
Ray says dont use pine?i can understand why not to use bbq charcoal due to
poss added fuel etc,but why not pine?
anyone got any comments on this mixture, as like i said it is from the RHS
book,& what they dont no isnt worth knowing!
thanks keith

The RHS is not like the bible, far from it. It's more like a couple of
knowitalls. There are no facts when it comes to orchids in collections. It's
a question of what works for you. Don't think about wether it works for
other people, but what you can work with, what you can get your hands on. Ok
some chemicals will probably harm orchids, so it's up to us to figure out
what works and what doesn't. I can't keep orchids in a mix based on coconut
fibres, chips. The dutch use it to grow plants, I can only kill plants with
it.
Books are often based on experience, that experience is based on conditions
and research of the authors, there is just no quarantee that it will work
for you. Study different possibilities and than deside for yourself what
seems to be the best for your situation.
Cheers
Peter

"keith" schreef in bericht
...
i am starting to get confused ,as a lot of growers use different methods &
give different answers!i have read in the RHS garden encylopedia(which is
like a bible for gardeners)that pine or fir bark are a excellent potting
medium with some additions to keep the mixture open & prevent it from
becoming sour.a suitable compost mix is as follows:3 parts medium grade
bark(dust free),1 part coarse grit or perlite,1 part charcoal pieces and 1
part broken dry leaves or fibrous peat substitute or peat.
Ray says dont use pine?i can understand why not to use bbq charcoal due to
poss added fuel etc,but why not pine?
anyone got any comments on this mixture, as like i said it is from the RHS
book,& what they dont no isnt worth knowing!
thanks keith

"keith" wrote in message
...
i am starting to get confused ,as a lot of growers use different methods &
give different answers!i have read in the RHS garden encylopedia(which is
like a bible for gardeners)that pine or fir bark are a excellent potting
medium with some additions to keep the mixture open & prevent it from
becoming sour.a suitable compost mix is as follows:3 parts medium grade
bark(dust free),1 part coarse grit or perlite,1 part charcoal pieces and 1
part broken dry leaves or fibrous peat substitute or peat.

As an aside, it seems to me you are looking for trouble the moment you
regard any book as being like a Bible. Doing so implies you don't ever
question it, and as a professional scientist, everything said by a mere
human being must be verified and validated, and in any scientific issue,
that means extensive experimentation. The experience others share with you
here is valuable in making inferences regarding what MAY work for you, but
to be certain YOU have to TRY the suggestions yourself.

There are several confounding issues. I don't use bark of any kind. It
isn't that I don't think it would be suitable. In my conditions, it
probably would be suitable as I do quite well with coconut husk chips. I
don't use it because it isn't available at any price in any place to which I
can easily drive. From what I have been reading lately, the principle
reason it isn't used more frequently is that a good supplier is very hard to
find.

I would use sphagnum moss, but I have not yet found a supplier of good
quality moss, and I have read that spanish moss may be even better, but I
haven't found a supplier for it. There is no point worrying about using a
particular medium if it can not easily be bought.

anyone got any comments on this mixture, as like i said it is from the RHS
book,& what they dont no isnt worth knowing!

The mixes you describe are probably fine for some species, but note, the
reference you give is for gardening, in general. That a given mix is
suitable for some species does not imply it would be good for orchids in
general or for a particular orchid genus in particular.

Now again, you're on dangerous ground. If I were still teaching at a
university, and I had a student who said such a thing to me, that student,
at a minimum, could count on being yelled at. No mere mortal, or collection
therof, can or should be treated or regarded as the fount of all knowledge.
I have worked with some of the world's best scientists, and even they are
occassionally surprised by experimental results they, or their students, or
their colleagues, have obtained. And the best of the best are ALWAYS
learning something new, which in turn implies that your claim that "anything
they don't know isn't worth knowing" is patently false!

My advice to you is first find out what media are readily available to you,
whether by mail or from local stores. Then appraise each with respect to
what you want to grow and, in particular, how you water your plants. The
reason you see different growers use and recommend different things is that
they are growing different plants in different conditions. A grower growing
phalaenopsis in Nevada will likely use different media and watering regimes
than his buddy in southern BC, and this is because Nevada is quite dry while
much of southern BC is covered in temerate rain forest. Different
environmental conditions require different cultural practices even for the
same species, and the variability increases as you consider different
growers growing different plants. This is why books like your gardening
encyclopedia provide a good starting point, but the advice provided therein
MUST be modified by the experience of your near neighbors (or people growing
in a very similar environment).

HTH

Ted

Keith,

You need to get something that is more specialized to growing orchids than a
general gardening publication.

The reason you don't want pine bark is that it breaks down too fast.

When you repot your plants you don't want to disturb them in a few months
later and do it again when the medium breaks down. Personally, I don't use
bark anymore except for a few specialized plants that like it on the wet
side.

I have switched to a cocohusk mixture with alifor (clay marbles). I find
this medium allows air to the roots which is essential because plants breath
through the roots. The coconut husk also does not compact in the pot
allowing the roots to penetrate the medium. Best of all the Cocohusk mix
lasts 2 to 3 times longer than bark mixes.

Good Growing,
Gene

Thank you Gene, you are the only one who has really answered my question ,on
using pine in the potting media!If I am asking questions about which potting
media it is quite obvious that I am new to the orchid world & haven't
potted a orchid before!So straight forward answers would be nice
sometimes,surely there is a starting potting media ,that with time I will
learn what works best within my environment for the orchids that I have. so
if there is one thing I have learned is there is no right answer for what
potting media to use,because everyone is using different methods,one says
don't use bark mulch,other says they use it & so on!So all I can do is buy
what material I can get hold of,& make a mixture that I think will suit my
orchids & learn from there ,I wish someone had of gave that answer about 15
threads ago!I will start with the mixture that is in the RHS encyclopaedia
which by the way has a excellent orchid section!One other thing I have
learnt is not to be overly obsessed with the care of looking after
orchids,a bit of neglect sometimes works wonders.
thanks all
keith
"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
link.net...
Keith,

You need to get something that is more specialized to growing orchids than
a
general gardening publication.

The reason you don't want pine bark is that it breaks down too fast.

When you repot your plants you don't want to disturb them in a few months
later and do it again when the medium breaks down. Personally, I don't
use
bark anymore except for a few specialized plants that like it on the wet
side.

I have switched to a cocohusk mixture with alifor (clay marbles). I find
this medium allows air to the roots which is essential because plants
breath
through the roots. The coconut husk also does not compact in the pot
allowing the roots to penetrate the medium. Best of all the Cocohusk mix
lasts 2 to 3 times longer than bark mixes.

Good Growing,
Gene

Gene when you talk about cocohusk mix, where do you grow your plants. In a
greenhouse or a dryer invironment like a house. (livingroom)
I use bark and often pine bark because it is easy and cheap for me to come
by. In my conditions (house) I have found that this bark mix I use, lasts
2-3 years. For me that's a good time, giving my plants a few years to grow
undesturbed yet every so many years I get a good look at the root structure,
which in my opinion is perhaps the most important part of the plant.
Cheers
Peter

"Gene Schurg" schreef in bericht
link.net...
Keith,

You need to get something that is more specialized to growing orchids than
a
general gardening publication.

The reason you don't want pine bark is that it breaks down too fast.

When you repot your plants you don't want to disturb them in a few months
later and do it again when the medium breaks down. Personally, I don't
use
bark anymore except for a few specialized plants that like it on the wet
side.

I have switched to a cocohusk mixture with alifor (clay marbles). I find
this medium allows air to the roots which is essential because plants
breath
through the roots. The coconut husk also does not compact in the pot
allowing the roots to penetrate the medium. Best of all the Cocohusk mix
lasts 2 to 3 times longer than bark mixes.

Good Growing,
Gene

Hi Keith, Welcome. The mix that you describe would work very well for
container
garden plants.
Redwood bark is best & comes in med & seedling, especially made up for
orchids.
(But the r/w bark these days isn't as good anymore)
Gene is correct, most people are switching to coconut husk chips (CHC) also
available
in different sizes.
Use horticultural charcoal & instead of perlite, 'spongerock' #3 size.
(crunchy for airyness in the mix)

Of course everything depends on where you are going to grow your orchids,
indoors, under lights, out doors or in a greenhouse.
Bottom line is that except for the terrestrial orchids, they shouldn't be
jammed in a pot anyway. But we all do it! *g*
Next trick is to find out where you can buy the different mediums & or
supplies?
Cheers Wendy


"keith" wrote in message
...
i am starting to get confused ,as a lot of growers use different methods &
give different answers!i have read in the RHS garden encylopedia(which is
like a bible for gardeners)that pine or fir bark are a excellent potting
medium with some additions to keep the mixture open & prevent it from
becoming sour.a suitable compost mix is as follows:3 parts medium grade
bark(dust free),1 part coarse grit or perlite,1 part charcoal pieces and 1
part broken dry leaves or fibrous peat substitute or peat.
Ray says dont use pine?i can understand why not to use bbq charcoal due to
poss added fuel etc,but why not pine?
anyone got any comments on this mixture, as like i said it is from the RHS
book,& what they dont no isnt worth knowing!
thanks keith

Keith,

Another thing to keep in mind is that the RHS recommendations are based upon
experience of a few individuals in England, where pine bark is likely
totally different from pine bark in the US, or Australia, or...

Another factor to consider is the age of the advice. In the US, the norm
was fir bark, not pine bark, but the stuff that's available today performs
poorly in comparison to the material available as recently as ten years ago.

Then there's your conditions. Your medium should be tailored to the needs
of the plants in the environment you typically provide. Not only are
windowsill conditions vastly different from greenhouse conditions -
resulting in the need to entirely different properties in the medium for
each - but the conditions in the northeast are vastly different from those
in the southeast, in California, etc.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"keith" wrote in message
...
Thank you Gene, you are the only one who has really answered my question
,on
using pine in the potting media!If I am asking questions about which
potting
media it is quite obvious that I am new to the orchid world & haven't
potted a orchid before!So straight forward answers would be nice
sometimes,surely there is a starting potting media ,that with time I will
learn what works best within my environment for the orchids that I have.
so
if there is one thing I have learned is there is no right answer for what
potting media to use,because everyone is using different methods,one says
don't use bark mulch,other says they use it & so on!So all I can do is buy
what material I can get hold of,& make a mixture that I think will suit my
orchids & learn from there ,I wish someone had of gave that answer about
15
threads ago!I will start with the mixture that is in the RHS encyclopaedia
which by the way has a excellent orchid section!One other thing I have
learnt is not to be overly obsessed with the care of looking after
orchids,a bit of neglect sometimes works wonders.
thanks all
keith
"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
link.net...
Keith,

You need to get something that is more specialized to growing orchids
than
a
general gardening publication.

The reason you don't want pine bark is that it breaks down too fast.

When you repot your plants you don't want to disturb them in a few
months
later and do it again when the medium breaks down. Personally, I don't
use
bark anymore except for a few specialized plants that like it on the wet
side.

I have switched to a cocohusk mixture with alifor (clay marbles). I
find
this medium allows air to the roots which is essential because plants
breath
through the roots. The coconut husk also does not compact in the pot
allowing the roots to penetrate the medium. Best of all the Cocohusk
mix
lasts 2 to 3 times longer than bark mixes.

Good Growing,
Gene

Keith,

Another thing to keep in mind is that the RHS recommendations are based upon
experience of a few individuals in England, where pine bark is likely
totally different from pine bark in the US, or Australia, or...

Another factor to consider is the age of the advice. In the US, the norm
was fir bark, not pine bark, but the stuff that's available today performs
poorly in comparison to the material available as recently as ten years ago.

Then there's your conditions. Your medium should be tailored to the needs
of the plants in the environment you typically provide. Not only are
windowsill conditions vastly different from greenhouse conditions -
resulting in the need to entirely different properties in the medium for
each - but the conditions in the northeast are vastly different from those
in the southeast, in California, etc.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"keith" wrote in message
...
Thank you Gene, you are the only one who has really answered my question
,on
using pine in the potting media!If I am asking questions about which
potting
media it is quite obvious that I am new to the orchid world & haven't
potted a orchid before!So straight forward answers would be nice
sometimes,surely there is a starting potting media ,that with time I will
learn what works best within my environment for the orchids that I have.
so
if there is one thing I have learned is there is no right answer for what
potting media to use,because everyone is using different methods,one says
don't use bark mulch,other says they use it & so on!So all I can do is buy
what material I can get hold of,& make a mixture that I think will suit my
orchids & learn from there ,I wish someone had of gave that answer about
15
threads ago!I will start with the mixture that is in the RHS encyclopaedia
which by the way has a excellent orchid section!One other thing I have
learnt is not to be overly obsessed with the care of looking after
orchids,a bit of neglect sometimes works wonders.
thanks all
keith
"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
link.net...
Keith,

You need to get something that is more specialized to growing orchids
than
a
general gardening publication.

The reason you don't want pine bark is that it breaks down too fast.

When you repot your plants you don't want to disturb them in a few
months
later and do it again when the medium breaks down. Personally, I don't
use
bark anymore except for a few specialized plants that like it on the wet
side.

I have switched to a cocohusk mixture with alifor (clay marbles). I
find
this medium allows air to the roots which is essential because plants
breath
through the roots. The coconut husk also does not compact in the pot
allowing the roots to penetrate the medium. Best of all the Cocohusk
mix
lasts 2 to 3 times longer than bark mixes.

Good Growing,
Gene

Peter,

Until a year ago I grew under lights but now I have a greenhouse.

I was lucky to have have a bark mix last a year. At about 6 months I would
have a hard gunk (technical term) form at the bottom of the pot. This was
the small particles and fibers that would congeal and roots would not
penetrate. Any roots in this gunk would rot. Soon the plant was growing in
the top inch of the mix.

That was my experience. Other people grow wonderful plants in the bark mix.

Good Growing,
Gene



"Boystrup Pb, ann,..." wrote in message
. be...
Gene when you talk about cocohusk mix, where do you grow your plants. In a
greenhouse or a dryer invironment like a house. (livingroom)
I use bark and often pine bark because it is easy and cheap for me to come
by. In my conditions (house) I have found that this bark mix I use, lasts
2-3 years. For me that's a good time, giving my plants a few years to grow
undesturbed yet every so many years I get a good look at the root
structure,
which in my opinion is perhaps the most important part of the plant.
Cheers
Peter

"Gene Schurg" schreef in bericht
link.net...
Keith,

You need to get something that is more specialized to growing orchids
than
a
general gardening publication.

The reason you don't want pine bark is that it breaks down too fast.

When you repot your plants you don't want to disturb them in a few
months
later and do it again when the medium breaks down. Personally, I don't
use
bark anymore except for a few specialized plants that like it on the wet
side.

I have switched to a cocohusk mixture with alifor (clay marbles). I
find
this medium allows air to the roots which is essential because plants
breath
through the roots. The coconut husk also does not compact in the pot
allowing the roots to penetrate the medium. Best of all the Cocohusk
mix
lasts 2 to 3 times longer than bark mixes.

Good Growing,
Gene

Keith,

As you have probably found this newsgroup is very
much
dominated by what works in the USA.

It might come as a surprise to many but probably
at a guess
95 percent of orchids grown commercially for sale
in the UK
and Europe are grown in Pine Bark. It is sometimes
mixed up
as you have already noted with perlite and a small
volume of
charcoal. You need to find horticultural charcoal
to be best
but over here in the UK where charcoal is made
from Oak,
beech and other forest woods you can use BBQ
charcoal if it
is naturally produced. Any local charcoal burners
will
probably help you out. Bricketts need to be
avoided as they
have additives to help combustion. You need to
break up the
charcoal into chips of a similar size to the bark.

Don't worry if you cannot find charcoal
....proabably 95
percent of the pine bark grown orchids sold
commercially in
UK and Europe do not have charcoal in the mix.
Most people
do not bother, they pot in pine bark and it works
well for
2-3 seasons according to quality.

In defence of RHS publications, criticism is often
unfounded
and easy here on this group as you have seen. A
number of
RHS publications are written by leading orchid
growers. Many
of the pictures in encyclopedic volumes come from
well know
nurseries such as McBeans (established early last
centuary)
and also the Eric Young Orchid Foundation which
produces
more awards than anyone else worldwide. Often the
editorial
is written by people in the UK industry who have
spent a
lifetime growing orchids.
You can take comfort in knowing that the RHS has
been
producing orchid publications since the 1800's and
the dawn
of orchid growing so they do know quite a bit when
they put
information into print.

If you check out the following link it might lead
you to a
local nursery, a visit might solve all your
problems and
answer many questions

http://www.easyexotics.co.uk/

If you contact me direct I can probably give you a
suggestion of who would be best for you to see - I
know most
of them since been working in the industry since
the 1970's.

Btw...if you do become hooked - watch out as you
probably
will want to obsess over your plants and examine
them
constantly!

Hope this helps from a UK perspective.
Regards
Alan L Winthrop.

www.tissuequickplantlabs.com










----- Original Message -----
From: "keith"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
Sent: 16 September 2003 23:31
Subject: new thread potting mixtures
,
I wish someone had of gave that answer about 15
threads ago!I will start with the mixture that
is in the
RHS encyclopaedia
which by the way has a excellent orchid
section!One other
thing I have
learnt is not to be overly obsessed with the
care of
looking after
orchids,a bit of neglect sometimes works
wonders.
thanks all
keith

"keith" wrote in
:

i am starting to get confused ,as a lot of growers use different
methods & give different answers!i have read in the RHS garden
encylopedia(which is like a bible for gardeners)that pine or fir bark
are a excellent potting medium with some additions to keep the mixture
open & prevent it from becoming sour.a suitable compost mix is as
follows:3 parts medium grade bark(dust free),1 part coarse grit or
perlite,1 part charcoal pieces and 1 part broken dry leaves or fibrous
peat substitute or peat. Ray says dont use pine?i can understand why
not to use bbq charcoal due to poss added fuel etc,but why not pine?
anyone got any comments on this mixture, as like i said it is from the
RHS book,& what they dont no isnt worth knowing!
thanks keith




Keith this web page has lots of links to UK orchid suppliers some with
their own pages.

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~johntrueman/Orchids.htm

I use more or less this mix but sub coconut husk chips for the fir bark as
fir bark got pricy in my area.
3 parts medium grade bark,1 part coarse grit or
perlite,1 part charcoal pieces

Hope this helps
Dusty