I repotted my greenhouse back in September. This is an annual event unless a
particular plant outgrows it's pot. Most of the plants potted in the fine bark
mixture wether paphs, cattleya seedlings or other types that like smaller media
seem to be doing fine.

Most of the plants potted in medium bark mix are doing terrible. They start new
roots for the most part and they seem to die off when they touch the bark. A
number of plants have not even made any new roots at all. In fact a number of
the mature plant with pseudobulbs have shrunken (this is common when repotting
mature catts but they usually recover).

I treated the bark with a Physan and water mixture by soaking the bark in the
mixture in a twenty gallon container for about twenty minutes. This was to kill
any snow mold spores that might be on the bark, it was Sequoia bark since I
could not get any other since Kensington closed. I have been treating the bark
this way for years without any trouble like this.

Any ideas? Could the bark have been contaminated with an herbicide?

Wow!

As far as I know Sequoia bark is OK stuff. Its what's used around here. The
stuff from Rexius is rumored to be too soft and decomposes rapidly.

And IMHO the physan wouldn't cause your trouble either...

Now the question remains what will you replace the medium bark with? You
could purchase a different bag of the Sequoia. In case it was just that one
bag that was trouble. Or shift to a different medium all together, but that
means relearning how to water, etc. Or adding something like lava rock to
your fine bark mix in order to open up more air spaces (and add weight to
the pot, but you knew that)

K Barrett
(keeping fingers crossed that nothing like this ever happens to me)

"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
I repotted my greenhouse back in September. This is an annual event unless
a
particular plant outgrows it's pot. Most of the plants potted in the fine
bark
mixture wether paphs, cattleya seedlings or other types that like smaller
media
seem to be doing fine.

Most of the plants potted in medium bark mix are doing terrible. They
start new
roots for the most part and they seem to die off when they touch the bark.
A
number of plants have not even made any new roots at all. In fact a number
of
the mature plant with pseudobulbs have shrunken (this is common when
repotting
mature catts but they usually recover).

I treated the bark with a Physan and water mixture by soaking the bark in
the
mixture in a twenty gallon container for about twenty minutes. This was to
kill
any snow mold spores that might be on the bark, it was Sequoia bark since
I
could not get any other since Kensington closed. I have been treating the
bark
this way for years without any trouble like this.

Any ideas? Could the bark have been contaminated with an herbicide?

I use the same Physan treatment on my bark, so I doubt that's the problem. I
have heard of some bark being treated with herbicide to enhance the value as
a mulch to keep down the weeds. I don't know this to be a fact but certainly
sounds like it could be a possibility. There have also been accidental
spills of pesticide on other products. I'd recommend repotting in new bark,
CHC + sponge rock, or what ever your choice may be, but do it now before the
pbulbs lose all their vitality and you lose your collection. I've had shoots
come from rootless, yellow bbulbs but I hate to tell you how long it takes
to get blooming size plants again, but you probably already know that. Best
of luck in the chore ahead.
Gary
"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
I repotted my greenhouse back in September. This is an annual event unless
a
particular plant outgrows it's pot. Most of the plants potted in the fine
bark
mixture wether paphs, cattleya seedlings or other types that like smaller
media
seem to be doing fine.

Most of the plants potted in medium bark mix are doing terrible. They
start new
roots for the most part and they seem to die off when they touch the bark.
A
number of plants have not even made any new roots at all. In fact a number
of
the mature plant with pseudobulbs have shrunken (this is common when
repotting
mature catts but they usually recover).

I treated the bark with a Physan and water mixture by soaking the bark in
the
mixture in a twenty gallon container for about twenty minutes. This was to
kill
any snow mold spores that might be on the bark, it was Sequoia bark since
I
could not get any other since Kensington closed. I have been treating the
bark
this way for years without any trouble like this.

Any ideas? Could the bark have been contaminated with an herbicide?

I
have heard of some bark being treated with herbicide to enhance the value as
a mulch to keep down the weeds.

Come to think of it most of the Sequoia bark was packaged and sold as mulch in
western states. I think the bag even has the word mulch on it.

I've been using Sequoia bark for over twenty years ever since Wyerhouser got
out of the bark business. Now that was some nice bark all kiln dryed.

I'm going to check with the nursery where I bought the bark to see what they
say. I think I already know the answer.

On 11 Jan 2004 15:42:46 GMT, nospamX (TRAINMAN9)
wrote:


Most of the plants potted in medium bark mix are doing terrible. They start new
roots for the most part and they seem to die off when they touch the bark.

I had the very same experience, but I attributed it to my newbieness.
The new roots did just fine until they touched the bark. Hmmm, good
luck.

bb

"bb" wrote in message
...
On 11 Jan 2004 15:42:46 GMT, nospamX (TRAINMAN9)
wrote:


Most of the plants potted in medium bark mix are doing terrible. They
start new
roots for the most part and they seem to die off when they touch the
bark.

I had the very same experience, but I attributed it to my newbieness.
The new roots did just fine until they touched the bark. Hmmm, good
luck.

bb

Tennis,

Just in case you *do* want to change mediums - it looks like we will all
have to do so eventually - I thought I'd toss in a couple of ideas.

Jerry Rodder is growing his cattleyas in 100% coir. I never thought they
would do well in this medium. I thought it would hold too much water for
their roots. But hey, you know Jerry. If its an oddball idea he's one to
make it work. He uses 100% coir, no perlite or anything else. And plastic
pots, which I was *sure* would rot their roots out faster than you could say
Jack Robinson, but no. He had a Cycdes Wine Delight in the same medium that
had a pseudobulb about a yard long and 4 inches in diameter. No fooling. I
couldn't believe it.

Fordyce has a few catts in what's commonly called 'Gorrilla Hair'. I think
that's sold in garden centers as ground cover too. Its the strands of
Redwood bark left over after the bark is stripped from the tree. Frank is
only experimenting with standard Catts in the mix, and says its too soon to
tell. But he has some cyms in it, and they do well. Acme Orchids uses
ground Gorilla Hair as the main ingredient in the Disa mix, becasue it
doesn't break down in the Disa wet culture. Plus Acme is in the heart of
Redwood Country, and so the stuff is ubiquitous.

Others say coconut chips. I've tried coconut chips before and find that
they are too springy. Plants do not 'firm up' well in the pot. When I have
used them with success its been as an additional item in the mix, such as
1/4 chips, 1/4 lava rock, and 1/2 bark. But that gets us nowhere, because
bark is getting scarce. Other swear by CHC, and I'll leave them to discuss
their love for that medium. In my hands it isn't necessarily as satisfying
as I'd like it to be because it *is* cheap and is readily available too.

So where does that leave us?

Probably with coconut chips. In some form. (Caveat Emptor)

K Barrett

"bb" wrote in message
...
On 11 Jan 2004 15:42:46 GMT, nospamX (TRAINMAN9)
wrote:


Most of the plants potted in medium bark mix are doing terrible. They
start new
roots for the most part and they seem to die off when they touch the
bark.

I had the very same experience, but I attributed it to my newbieness.
The new roots did just fine until they touched the bark. Hmmm, good
luck.

bb

Tennis,

Just in case you *do* want to change mediums - it looks like we will all
have to do so eventually - I thought I'd toss in a couple of ideas.

Jerry Rodder is growing his cattleyas in 100% coir. I never thought they
would do well in this medium. I thought it would hold too much water for
their roots. But hey, you know Jerry. If its an oddball idea he's one to
make it work. He uses 100% coir, no perlite or anything else. And plastic
pots, which I was *sure* would rot their roots out faster than you could say
Jack Robinson, but no. He had a Cycdes Wine Delight in the same medium that
had a pseudobulb about a yard long and 4 inches in diameter. No fooling. I
couldn't believe it.

Fordyce has a few catts in what's commonly called 'Gorrilla Hair'. I think
that's sold in garden centers as ground cover too. Its the strands of
Redwood bark left over after the bark is stripped from the tree. Frank is
only experimenting with standard Catts in the mix, and says its too soon to
tell. But he has some cyms in it, and they do well. Acme Orchids uses
ground Gorilla Hair as the main ingredient in the Disa mix, becasue it
doesn't break down in the Disa wet culture. Plus Acme is in the heart of
Redwood Country, and so the stuff is ubiquitous.

Others say coconut chips. I've tried coconut chips before and find that
they are too springy. Plants do not 'firm up' well in the pot. When I have
used them with success its been as an additional item in the mix, such as
1/4 chips, 1/4 lava rock, and 1/2 bark. But that gets us nowhere, because
bark is getting scarce. Other swear by CHC, and I'll leave them to discuss
their love for that medium. In my hands it isn't necessarily as satisfying
as I'd like it to be because it *is* cheap and is readily available too.

So where does that leave us?

Probably with coconut chips. In some form. (Caveat Emptor)

K Barrett

Others say coconut chips. I've tried coconut chips before and find that
they are too springy. Plants do not 'firm up' well in the pot. When I have
used them with success its been as an additional item in the mix, such as
1/4 chips, 1/4 lava rock, and 1/2 bark. But that gets us nowhere, because
bark is getting scarce. Other swear by CHC, and I'll leave them to discuss
their love for that medium. In my hands it isn't necessarily as satisfying
as I'd like it to be because it *is* cheap and is readily available too.



Fortunately we are unlikely to run out of coconut chips, unless
people stop eating coconut cream pies and macaroons. I love those...
Of course CHC needs the added step of a good wash. I would suggest
that this might be a solution to the 'contaminated bark' as well. There
are many reasons that bark could have high salt (not necessarily NaCl)
content. Soak it in a few changes of good water and see if that helps.

And of course you can grow orchids in anything. Didn't Rod Venger
try shards of glass just to show it could be done? Somebody did. Ray
has convinced many people that semihydroponics is a good idea, so I
presume that works too. I had quite a bit of success with pure
hydroponics (roots continuously immersed in water), but that was a bit
of a hassle. Several years ago I co-wrote an article in the AOS
Bulletin about growing orchids in 'mud' (peat mix). That was really
popular for several years, but many of the people who were using it have
gone on to other things. I grow mainly paphs now, which never seemed to
do that well in mud, so I've moved on too. Of course I should be
growing some other things in mud, but it is too easy to stick with one
mix for everything, so the paph mix wins. There are trends and
fashions, and right now CHC seems to be in vogue.

I'm one of the CHC afficionados, and I mix it about 2:1:1
(CHC:sponge rock:charcoal). That keeps the springiness down, but it is
still tempting to squish it in there too tight. I can't stress enough
how bad squishing is, all of my 'rootless wonders' were in pots that had
been too tightly squished. Plants don't firm up like they do if you use
good bark, or osmunda (if you could find it). I tolerate, but don't
necessarily appreciate that phenotype. I do not put bark in any of my
mixes, mainly because I've been burned with a few batches of mushy bark,
but also because of some notion I have that decaying bark sucks up
nitrogen, and I use a fertilizer which is skating the low edge already.

Some of the purported benefits of CHC don't seem to stand up. One
was that it would last for 5+ years. Well, it does, but as I may have
mentioned in previous posts, all I can get is two useful years. Perhaps
other people can get more life out of CHC, but I can't. After two
years, paphs start to lose roots, probably due to salt accumulation
rather than CHC decomposition, but there is a little composting going on
too. For cattleyas and other 'drier' growing species, you might get
some more time if you used the biggest chips and did a good job of
flushing the pot with water on occasion. Also, I think that CHC tends
to lose 'strands' as time goes on. Not sure what that is about, but
after a while I get an accumulation of fine 'coir' in the bottom of
pots. Since I'm really looking for the exact opposite (an open, large
particle size mix), this is kind of counter productive. I suspect that
water flowing through the pot strips off little strands, and the orchid
roots probably move them around a bit too, and everything washes to the
bottom.

Rob (posting beats working...)


--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

"K Barrett" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:APzNb.60616$sv6.138457@attbi_s52...

Jerry Rodder is growing his cattleyas in 100% coir.

Explain coir to me. Is it that stuff that looks like mud when you wet it?
Short (mm) pieces of coconut fiber?
(Boy, do I feel stupid asking a newbie question like this!) How would that
work for Catts??? I must be thinking of something else.
--
Reka

I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
[snip] Didn't Rod Venger
try shards of glass just to show it could be done? Somebody did.

I know Fordyce did this, many years ago. Grew catts in broken safety glass.


[snip] Several years ago I co-wrote an article in the AOS
Bulletin about growing orchids in 'mud' (peat mix). That was really
popular for several years, but many of the people who were using it have
gone on to other things.

Funny how that happens, something is popular for years then people move on.
I was the same with coir, loved it initally then moved back to bark. Which
is why I was amazed that Jerry had so much success with it. In my hands it
was better than sphagnum, but hey. That's not saying much.


I'm one of the CHC afficionados, and I mix it about 2:1:1
(CHC:sponge rock:charcoal). That keeps the springiness down, but it is
still tempting to squish it in there too tight. I can't stress enough
how bad squishing is, all of my 'rootless wonders' were in pots that had
been too tightly squished. Plants don't firm up like they do if you use
good bark, or osmunda (if you could find it).

Thanks for the info. I understand someone is selling spongerock in small
cubes. It almost looks like square cigarette filters. Supposedly that would
make potting easier. The only time I've seen sponge rock before was in big
cottonlike bales. It might have been Diatomite USA or Dyna Gro. I'll have to
look on their webpages.

Reka, Google COIR and you'll probably find the OrchidSafari chat about it.

K Barrett

I suppose they're all coir-based products.

On the coarse end is CHC, then CH Fiber, and then the "dust" (ground up
version) is what we commonly think of as "coir," sometimes sold as
"Coco-peat."

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Reka" wrote in message
...
"K Barrett" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:APzNb.60616$sv6.138457@attbi_s52...

Jerry Rodder is growing his cattleyas in 100% coir.

Explain coir to me. Is it that stuff that looks like mud when you wet it?
Short (mm) pieces of coconut fiber?
(Boy, do I feel stupid asking a newbie question like this!) How would
that
work for Catts??? I must be thinking of something else.
--
Reka

I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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The "dust" is frequently sold in compressed bricks, which take a lot of
soaking and scraping to turn into usable fiber, and that does look like
peat. I bought some at a show a few years back, before I was even asking the
right questions, and repotted a Laelia in coirerlite 4:1 in a clay pot.
That plant began to grow like gangbusters with the same water and fertilizer
I was giving my plants in bark. It's still doing that today.
Tom
Walnut Creek, CA, USA
(To reply by e-mail, remove APPENDIX)

From: "Ray"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:03:07 -0500
Subject: Bark contaminated ?

I suppose they're all coir-based products.

On the coarse end is CHC, then CH Fiber, and then the "dust" (ground up
version) is what we commonly think of as "coir," sometimes sold as
"Coco-peat."

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Reka" wrote in message
...
"K Barrett" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:APzNb.60616$sv6.138457@attbi_s52...

Jerry Rodder is growing his cattleyas in 100% coir.

Explain coir to me. Is it that stuff that looks like mud when you wet it?
Short (mm) pieces of coconut fiber?
(Boy, do I feel stupid asking a newbie question like this!) How would
that
work for Catts??? I must be thinking of something else.
--
Reka

I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Thanks to both of you for the info. The compressed bricks are what I can
find here in Italy, so now if I just had a spare Catt I could try it out
on...
--
Reka

I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

"tbell" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
The "dust" is frequently sold in compressed bricks, which take a lot
of
soaking and scraping to turn into usable fiber, and that does look like
peat. I bought some at a show a few years back, before I was even asking
the
right questions, and repotted a Laelia in coirerlite 4:1 in a clay pot.
That plant began to grow like gangbusters with the same water and
fertilizer
I was giving my plants in bark. It's still doing that today.
Tom
Walnut Creek, CA, USA
(To reply by e-mail, remove APPENDIX)

From: "Ray"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:03:07 -0500
Subject: Bark contaminated ?

I suppose they're all coir-based products.

On the coarse end is CHC, then CH Fiber, and then the "dust" (ground up
version) is what we commonly think of as "coir," sometimes sold as
"Coco-peat."

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Reka" wrote in message
...
"K Barrett" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:APzNb.60616$sv6.138457@attbi_s52...

Jerry Rodder is growing his cattleyas in 100% coir.

Explain coir to me. Is it that stuff that looks like mud when you wet
it?
Short (mm) pieces of coconut fiber?
(Boy, do I feel stupid asking a newbie question like this!) How would
that
work for Catts??? I must be thinking of something else.



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--
Reka

I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"tbell" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
The "dust" is frequently sold in compressed bricks, which take a lot
of
soaking and scraping to turn into usable fiber, and that does look like
peat. I bought some at a show a few years back, before I was even asking
the
right questions, and repotted a Laelia in coirerlite 4:1 in a clay pot.
That plant began to grow like gangbusters with the same water and
fertilizer
I was giving my plants in bark. It's still doing that today.

But does the plant have enough support in that mix?


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I don't happen to have any plants in coir now, because it's been easier
to buy ready-made bark/peat/perlite mix (Gubler's), but I never had a
problem with poor support. It's important, though, as someone said earlier,
not to compact it too tightly when planting.
Tom

From: "Reka"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:10:28 +0100
Subject: Bark contaminated ?


--
Reka

I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"tbell" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
The "dust" is frequently sold in compressed bricks, which take a lot
of
soaking and scraping to turn into usable fiber, and that does look like
peat. I bought some at a show a few years back, before I was even asking
the
right questions, and repotted a Laelia in coirerlite 4:1 in a clay pot.
That plant began to grow like gangbusters with the same water and
fertilizer
I was giving my plants in bark. It's still doing that today.

But does the plant have enough support in that mix?


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