And look at how many FCCs Paph rothschildianum has. I think someone
mentioned that some judges think a plant has 'too many' awards and therefore
no longer consider a plant judging. Well, obviously not. Same could be
said for Paph armeniacum.

K Barrett

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
. net...
Yeah...Look at Paph rothchildianum.

An FCC awarded plant is outrageously expensive.

Gene




"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
and I have found that an award does not really change a
plants value.

Not for clonable plants but for Paphs and Phrags the value definately
goes
up.
Depending on what the plant is newly awarded plants command a big
premium.
Some
whites seem to demand an tremendous premium some well over 2k, while
others are
usually in the $250-500 range per growth.

In time the cost does come down somewhat unless the plant is a good
breeder.

Prior to cloning most other awarded orchids also commanded premiums but
with
the advent of the cloning process and production of thousands of
identical
plants the prices came down to less than $25 for a mature plant and in
some
cases under $10.

And look at how many FCCs Paph rothschildianum has. I think someone
mentioned that some judges think a plant has 'too many' awards and therefore
no longer consider a plant judging. Well, obviously not. Same could be
said for Paph armeniacum.

K Barrett

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
. net...
Yeah...Look at Paph rothchildianum.

An FCC awarded plant is outrageously expensive.

Gene




"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
and I have found that an award does not really change a
plants value.

Not for clonable plants but for Paphs and Phrags the value definately
goes
up.
Depending on what the plant is newly awarded plants command a big
premium.
Some
whites seem to demand an tremendous premium some well over 2k, while
others are
usually in the $250-500 range per growth.

In time the cost does come down somewhat unless the plant is a good
breeder.

Prior to cloning most other awarded orchids also commanded premiums but
with
the advent of the cloning process and production of thousands of
identical
plants the prices came down to less than $25 for a mature plant and in
some
cases under $10.

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 16:08:23 GMT, "K Barrett"
wrote:

And look at how many FCCs Paph rothschildianum has. I think someone
mentioned that some judges think a plant has 'too many' awards and therefore
no longer consider a plant judging. Well, obviously not. Same could be
said for Paph armeniacum.

K Barrett


Not saying it is true with either of these plants...
Sometimes the original awards and what is awarded today is so
different the originals would now be considered not worth looking
at. So as judges we need to compare and not count.

There is the argument that awards raise the price in a Paph... is
it fair to not raise the price for one competitor after you did
it for another?

But if every other plant has an award has the award lost its
power?

Still best to pick your own perfect bloom.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 16:08:23 GMT, "K Barrett"
wrote:

And look at how many FCCs Paph rothschildianum has. I think someone
mentioned that some judges think a plant has 'too many' awards and therefore
no longer consider a plant judging. Well, obviously not. Same could be
said for Paph armeniacum.

K Barrett


Not saying it is true with either of these plants...
Sometimes the original awards and what is awarded today is so
different the originals would now be considered not worth looking
at. So as judges we need to compare and not count.

There is the argument that awards raise the price in a Paph... is
it fair to not raise the price for one competitor after you did
it for another?

But if every other plant has an award has the award lost its
power?

Still best to pick your own perfect bloom.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

I was just thinking about that today. Since I don't get AQ or wildcatt I
don't know how old an award is.

I do remember that Charles E. is an older award....So I guess from your
response that a new FCC on roth is worth more than a 10 year old FCC. Makes
sense to me.





"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
Yeah...Look at Paph rothchildianum.

An FCC awarded plant is outrageously expensive.

Gene


Some of the older clones like Charles E. are more reasonable but the newer
ones
are still pretty high. I wonder how much "Janet" or "Mt. Milas" go for?

I've heard from several sources that when armeniacum was first shown to
judges the bright yellow color was like a strong drug that made them do
crazy things. They gave a bunch of FCCs to the early generations in culture
and now there are much better specimens that have several generations of
selection behind them. This is a good example of a buyer beware......if its
an early FCC and you pay a big price you are getting taken.

So if someone shows a really deserving specimen of armeniacum are they at a
disadvantage? I know it's all about measurements...yes, size counts! Does
the judging team score something thats 10% bigger than an FCC awarded 10
years ago as an AM (or lower)?

Gene



"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:Whlsd.509102$D%.320222@attbi_s51...
And look at how many FCCs Paph rothschildianum has. I think someone
mentioned that some judges think a plant has 'too many' awards and
therefore
no longer consider a plant judging. Well, obviously not. Same could be
said for Paph armeniacum.

K Barrett

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
. net...
Yeah...Look at Paph rothchildianum.

An FCC awarded plant is outrageously expensive.

Gene




"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
and I have found that an award does not really change a
plants value.

Not for clonable plants but for Paphs and Phrags the value definately
goes
up.
Depending on what the plant is newly awarded plants command a big
premium.
Some
whites seem to demand an tremendous premium some well over 2k, while
others are
usually in the $250-500 range per growth.

In time the cost does come down somewhat unless the plant is a good
breeder.

Prior to cloning most other awarded orchids also commanded premiums
but
with
the advent of the cloning process and production of thousands of
identical
plants the prices came down to less than $25 for a mature plant and in
some
cases under $10.

OK.

I have been priviledged to know 3 of the judges that were on that team and
they are hard ass opinionated sons of bitches. One never scored above 74 in
his life.

So, no. They weren't seduced by color.

Go pull the slide.

You'll see a flower that's drop dead gorgeous.

Someone showing a "really deserving" armeniacum is not at a disadvantage
because - as far as I've been trained - the idea that "there are too many"
awards is NOT true. If a flower deserves a quality award based on its
color, shape and comparison to an arrray of the previous recent awards that
set the current standard then it gets scored according to its quality on
that day. I can't recall where in this thread someone mentioned that there
were too many awards on a flower and I pointed out that both rothschilianum
(which has many, many FCCs) and armeniacum (which has many, many award in
general) all keep getting awards. Why? Because they are nice flowers.

K Barrett

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
nk.net...
I've heard from several sources that when armeniacum was first shown to
judges the bright yellow color was like a strong drug that made them do
crazy things. They gave a bunch of FCCs to the early generations in
culture
and now there are much better specimens that have several generations of
selection behind them. This is a good example of a buyer beware......if
its
an early FCC and you pay a big price you are getting taken.

So if someone shows a really deserving specimen of armeniacum are they at
a
disadvantage? I know it's all about measurements...yes, size counts!
Does
the judging team score something thats 10% bigger than an FCC awarded 10
years ago as an AM (or lower)?

Gene



"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:Whlsd.509102$D%.320222@attbi_s51...
And look at how many FCCs Paph rothschildianum has. I think someone
mentioned that some judges think a plant has 'too many' awards and
therefore
no longer consider a plant judging. Well, obviously not. Same could be
said for Paph armeniacum.

K Barrett

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
. net...
Yeah...Look at Paph rothchildianum.

An FCC awarded plant is outrageously expensive.

Gene




"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
and I have found that an award does not really change a
plants value.

Not for clonable plants but for Paphs and Phrags the value
definately
goes
up.
Depending on what the plant is newly awarded plants command a big
premium.
Some
whites seem to demand an tremendous premium some well over 2k, while
others are
usually in the $250-500 range per growth.

In time the cost does come down somewhat unless the plant is a good
breeder.

Prior to cloning most other awarded orchids also commanded premiums
but
with
the advent of the cloning process and production of thousands of
identical
plants the prices came down to less than $25 for a mature plant and
in
some
cases under $10.

OK.

I have been priviledged to know 3 of the judges that were on that team and
they are hard ass opinionated sons of bitches. One never scored above 74 in
his life.

So, no. They weren't seduced by color.

Go pull the slide.

You'll see a flower that's drop dead gorgeous.

Someone showing a "really deserving" armeniacum is not at a disadvantage
because - as far as I've been trained - the idea that "there are too many"
awards is NOT true. If a flower deserves a quality award based on its
color, shape and comparison to an arrray of the previous recent awards that
set the current standard then it gets scored according to its quality on
that day. I can't recall where in this thread someone mentioned that there
were too many awards on a flower and I pointed out that both rothschilianum
(which has many, many FCCs) and armeniacum (which has many, many award in
general) all keep getting awards. Why? Because they are nice flowers.

K Barrett

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
nk.net...
I've heard from several sources that when armeniacum was first shown to
judges the bright yellow color was like a strong drug that made them do
crazy things. They gave a bunch of FCCs to the early generations in
culture
and now there are much better specimens that have several generations of
selection behind them. This is a good example of a buyer beware......if
its
an early FCC and you pay a big price you are getting taken.

So if someone shows a really deserving specimen of armeniacum are they at
a
disadvantage? I know it's all about measurements...yes, size counts!
Does
the judging team score something thats 10% bigger than an FCC awarded 10
years ago as an AM (or lower)?

Gene



"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:Whlsd.509102$D%.320222@attbi_s51...
And look at how many FCCs Paph rothschildianum has. I think someone
mentioned that some judges think a plant has 'too many' awards and
therefore
no longer consider a plant judging. Well, obviously not. Same could be
said for Paph armeniacum.

K Barrett

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
. net...
Yeah...Look at Paph rothchildianum.

An FCC awarded plant is outrageously expensive.

Gene




"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
and I have found that an award does not really change a
plants value.

Not for clonable plants but for Paphs and Phrags the value
definately
goes
up.
Depending on what the plant is newly awarded plants command a big
premium.
Some
whites seem to demand an tremendous premium some well over 2k, while
others are
usually in the $250-500 range per growth.

In time the cost does come down somewhat unless the plant is a good
breeder.

Prior to cloning most other awarded orchids also commanded premiums
but
with
the advent of the cloning process and production of thousands of
identical
plants the prices came down to less than $25 for a mature plant and
in
some
cases under $10.

I do remember that Charles E. is an older award....So I guess from your
response that a new FCC on roth is worth more than a 10 year old FCC. Makes
sense to me.

Not necessarily. I would guess that part of it might be that there is just more
of it around or that better examples or breeders are available and command a
higher price. I remember when Winston Churchill clones were over $500 a growth
or Hellas in the $250-300 range. Now both can be had for $150 for the former
and $50-60 for the latter even though both are still regarded as good breeders.

Some plants never seem to lose their appeal or value such as Skip Bartlett
clones and Dusty Miller. They are still highly regarded and very expensive.