Peter,
I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the
inflorescence in
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o
, but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the
viewer, surely looks trimerous. Wouldn't you agree?
Best
-- Jan


B wrote:
Thanks Jan, but I can definitely count 10 stamens on the apical corolla and
more than 6 tepals (but I cannot see 10 tepals). The plant is very small -
each corolla is less that 5mm across. I cannot recall the leaf structure.

Peter

"Jan De Laet" wrote in message
...
Does anyone
disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens, but
it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel.
As far as I can tell from
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o
it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots.

Best

-- Jan
The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google
Images under any of the suggested families.

Peter

"Peter B" wrote in message
...
PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006.
Surely someone out there can help!

Thanks

Peter

Peter,
I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the
inflorescence in
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o

but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the
viewer, surely looks
trimerous. Wouldn't you agree?
Best
-- Jan



Peter B wrote:
Thanks Jan, but I can definitely count 10 stamens on the apical corolla and
more than 6 tepals (but I cannot see 10 tepals). The plant is very small -
each corolla is less that 5mm across. I cannot recall the leaf structure.

Peter

"Jan De Laet" wrote in message
...
Does anyone
disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens, but
it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel.
As far as I can tell from
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o
it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots.

Best

-- Jan
The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google
Images under any of the suggested families.

Peter

"Peter B" wrote in message
...
PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006.
Surely someone out there can help!

Thanks

Peter

"Jan De Laet" schreef

Peter,
I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the
inflorescence in

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o

but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the
viewer, surely looks trimerous. Wouldn't you agree?
Best
-- Jan

***
FWIW I would agree with that.
Pity that there is only the one flower that allows a count
PvR

Jan

It is very good of you to take the trouble - thanks.

Yes, that one does look as though it might be in Liliaceae. In fact it was
there that I first looked. The problem was, I was with other people at the
time and did not have time to examine the plant properly in situ, so a lot
is guess work. I will try Googling Poland and Liliaceae

Cheers

Peter

"Jan De Laet" wrote in message
...
Peter,
I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the
inflorescence in
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o ,
but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the
viewer, surely looks trimerous. Wouldn't you agree?
Best
-- Jan


B wrote:
Thanks Jan, but I can definitely count 10 stamens on the apical corolla
and more than 6 tepals (but I cannot see 10 tepals). The plant is very
small - each corolla is less that 5mm across. I cannot recall the leaf
structure.

Peter

"Jan De Laet" wrote in message
...
Does anyone
disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens,
but it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel.
As far as I can tell from
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o
it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots.

Best

-- Jan
The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google
Images under any of the suggested families.

Peter

"Peter B" wrote in message
...
PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006.
Surely someone out there can help!

Thanks

Peter

Jan

I think I have found it. Tofieldia calyculata. See
http://rostliny.nikde.cz/view.php?ci...nku=2004071302. The specimen shown
is more flourishing than mine, but it seems unmistakeable. The apical flower
that I referred to, must be two, on behind the other.

What do you think?

Peter

"Jan De Laet" wrote in message
...
Peter,
I have problems interpreting what can be seen near the apex of the
inflorescence in
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o ,
but the flower further down, with its apex (almost) pointing to the
viewer, surely looks trimerous. Wouldn't you agree?
Best
-- Jan


B wrote:
Thanks Jan, but I can definitely count 10 stamens on the apical corolla
and more than 6 tepals (but I cannot see 10 tepals). The plant is very
small - each corolla is less that 5mm across. I cannot recall the leaf
structure.

Peter

"Jan De Laet" wrote in message
...
Does anyone
disagree or agree that it is a saxifrage? Seems to have 10 stamens,
but it looks like 3 styles each on a free carpel.
As far as I can tell from
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...2798196&size=o
it has 6 stamens and 6 tepals. So check out monocots.

Best

-- Jan
The Italian job is a real puzzle. I can find nothing like it on Google
Images under any of the suggested families.

Peter

"Peter B" wrote in message
...
PLEASE - could people have another look at my posts of 11/08/2006.
Surely someone out there can help!

Thanks

Peter

"Peter B" schreef
Jan

I think I have found it. Tofieldia calyculata. See
http://rostliny.nikde.cz/view.php?ci...nku=2004071302. The specimen
shown is more flourishing than mine, but it seems unmistakeable. The apical
flower that I referred to, must be two, on behind the other.

What do you think?

***
I was just going to suggest /Tofieldia/. Somebody pointed one out to me this
afternoon and when I was looking at my photograph just now I noted the
resemblance. Once again a case of me being too slow.
PvR

In message , Roger Whitehead
writes
In article , Robin Somes
wrote:
Looks to me like Moschatel, Adoxa moschatellina, vernacular name "Town
Hall Clock"

I doubt it. One of its other vernacular names is Five-faced Bishop,
which gives a clue to the number of flowers on each spike. Peter's
specimen has many flowers.

Looking again at his picture, you're right, of course. For some reason,
possibly the blade of grass coming up vertically, I had assumed that the
uppermost 2 or 3 flowers on the stalk belonged to a separate stalk
behind. Doh! Shows just how much one can see what one's expecting to
see...

cheers,
robin


I don't know what Peter's plant actually is, though. 8-)

--
www.newforestartgallery.co.uk
www.badminston.demon.co.uk www.robinsomes.co.uk
www.robinsomes.co.uk/oz www.robinsomes.co.uk/greece03
Trust me, I'm a webmaster...

In article , Robin Somes wrote:
Shows just how much one can see what one's expecting to
see...

And how hard it can sometimes be to identify plants from photos. So many
of the normal clues and cues are missing.

Roger

Roger Whitehead wrote:
And how hard it can sometimes be to identify plants from photos. So many
of the normal clues and cues are missing.

Indeed. Also, pictures often show just one or a few flowers (leaves,
stems, ...), and therefore one can never be sure if the thing shown is
typical for the specimen or species at hand (unless the photographer has
taken the trouble to add a note about that or take many pictures). This
is related to Pauls' observation yesterday, with respect to one of
Peter's pictures, that is was a pity that that pictures just showed one
flower in which floral parts could properly be counted.

As anyone who has ever used identification keys surely is aware, it
happens rather frequently to find, e.g., a few tetramerous flowers in
inflorescences that have otherwise tens of pentamerous flowers and stuff
like that. Some documented examples that illustrate such things can be
found below.

Kerria japonica: most flowers pentamerous, but tetramerous flowers can
be found occasionaly as well -
http://www.plantsystematics.org/cgi-...ank=bi nomial

Ptelea trifoliata: in the tree that I had a look at, most flowers were
tetramerous, but quite some pentamerous flowers could be found as well
-
http://www.plantsystematics.org/cgi-...ank= binomial

Paris quadrifolia: plants typically with four leaves, but specimens
with, e.g., five leaves can be found as well -
http://www.plantsystematics.org/cgi-...ank= binomial

Best regards

-- Jan

In message , Jan De Laet
writes

As anyone who has ever used identification keys surely is aware, it
happens rather frequently to find, e.g., a few tetramerous flowers in
inflorescences that have otherwise tens of pentamerous flowers and
stuff
like that. Some documented examples that illustrate such things can be
found below.


I've been taking note of aberrations among mallows. See

http://www.malvaceae.info/Biology/Aberrations.html

I've seen flowers with between 3 and 9 petals. What makes the situation
potentially worse for identification purposes is that the aberrations
are concentrated among the earliest flowers, so there may not be a
normal flower visible to give the game away.

Sidalcea seems to throw up hexamerous flowers more commonly that
tetramerous ones.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Yep, this happens all the time. What drives the students nuts is
finding monocot flowers with dicot part numbers and vice versa. We see
this often with Nothoscordum, Hypoxis, Phlox, etc.

M. Reed

As anyone who has ever used identification keys surely is aware, it
happens rather frequently to find, e.g., a few tetramerous flowers in
inflorescences that have otherwise tens of pentamerous flowers and stuff
like that. Some documented examples that illustrate such things can be
found below.


I've been taking note of aberrations among mallows. See

http://www.malvaceae.info/Biology/Aberrations.html

I've seen flowers with between 3 and 9 petals. What makes the situation
potentially worse for identification purposes is that the aberrations
are concentrated among the earliest flowers, so there may not be a
normal flower visible to give the game away.

Sidalcea seems to throw up hexamerous flowers more commonly that
tetramerous ones.