Some years ago I had a stapeliad type plant, I forget the name, whose flowers
smell exactly like cheese. Presumably its pollinator was some kind of cheese
fly. My question: mother animals in the wild don't leave their milk lying
around to turn into cheese. I understand cheese is strictly a human discovery.
So how did a flower evolve that smells like cheese?
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

In article ,
Iris Cohen wrote:
Some years ago I had a stapeliad type plant, I forget the name, whose flowers
smell exactly like cheese. Presumably its pollinator was some kind of cheese
fly. My question: mother animals in the wild don't leave their milk lying
around to turn into cheese. I understand cheese is strictly a human discovery.
So how did a flower evolve that smells like cheese?

It's more a rancid and/or putrid odor. Strong cheeses develop their
characteristic smells from oxidation of fats (rancidity) and
decomposition of proteins (putridity). Both these classes of odor are
attractive to insects which lay eggs in carrion.

When I put my stapelias outdoors in the summer they often bloom with
their characteristic speckled and streaked stinking flowers, covered
with hairs, looking like the swollen corpse of a dead rodent. Flies
lay eggs all over them. This system makes them wait until their outdoor
summer vacation to bloom. Indoors, they are socially unacceptable.

I've noticed that different species have somewhat different smells,
not that I'm a connoisseur of fragrances of dungs and carrion!

Maybe, just maybe, you have an "anthropocentric view" view of plants? ( ;-)

Plants are professional biochemists (life and death), as opposed to humans
who only earn a living by playing at biochemistry. Usually plants have been
there, done that ... long (MY) ago.

Amusing story:
In medieval Italy there was a perfumer who after much hard work developed a
heavenly perfume that became popular at the court of the de Medici and thus
made him famous.

When centuries later the Italians came into the tropics they found a plant
which smelled just like this heavenly perfume and they said to themselves:
this plant that smells just like the perfume of Mr Frangipani we must call
the frangipani.

The frangipani smelled like frangipani long (MY) before Mr Frangipani lived
and certainly did not copy his "original creation"
PvR

Iris Cohen schreef
Some years ago I had a stapeliad type plant, I forget the name, whose
flowers smell exactly like cheese. Presumably its pollinator was some kind
of cheese fly. My question: mother animals in the wild don't leave their
milk lying around to turn into cheese. I understand cheese is strictly a
human discovery. So how did a flower evolve that smells like cheese?
Iris

Xref: 127.0.0.1 sci.bio.botany:18501

PvR is right - evolution doesn't plan anything. In this case, I'd suggest
that rather than try to imitate the aroma of cheese, this one just happened
by random mutation, and turned out to be popular with insect pollinators.
That plant therefore produced more seeds than others, and passed the cheesy
trait to its offspring. Now if you could find one with blue mould growing
through it...

Colin
"Iris Cohen" wrote in message
...
Some years ago I had a stapeliad type plant, I forget the name, whose
flowers
smell exactly like cheese. Presumably its pollinator was some kind of
cheese
fly. My question: mother animals in the wild don't leave their milk lying
around to turn into cheese. I understand cheese is strictly a human
discovery.
So how did a flower evolve that smells like cheese?
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so
much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

Well, just to emphasize this once again:
"random mutation"s do not have much to do with evolution.

Co-evolution with insects is of very great importance, but chance plays only
a limited part.

Would not be all that surprised to find a 'cheesy' plant with a blue mould
growing through it. I lost a great deal of my ability to be surprised when
discovering greenhouse plants ;-)
PvR

c.mcculloch schreef
PvR is right - evolution doesn't plan anything. In this case, I'd suggest
that rather than try to imitate the aroma of cheese, this one just happened
by random mutation, and turned out to be popular with insect pollinators.
That plant therefore produced more seeds than others, and passed the cheesy
trait to its offspring. Now if you could find one with blue mould growing
through it...

Colin


"Iris Cohen" wrote
Some years ago I had a stapeliad type plant, I forget the name, whose
flowers smell exactly like cheese. Presumably its pollinator was some kind
of cheese fly. My question: mother animals in the wild don't leave their
milk
lying around to turn into cheese. I understand cheese is strictly a human
discovery. So how did a flower evolve that smells like cheese?
Iris,

this one just happened by random mutation, and turned out to be popular
with insect pollinators.

Nah. It is probably one of those things God created on the first Sabbath when
He was supposed to be resting, along with Welwitschia, the duckbill platypus,
the Boojum tree, and Masdevallia caudivolvula.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

In view of all the plants in existence with really weird smells (eg flowers
with a banana smell) God must have worked overtime on his restday!

BTW Since this was the seventh day wasn't this a Sunday?
PvR

Iris Cohen schreef
Nah. It is probably one of those things God created on the first Sabbath
when He was supposed to be resting, along with Welwitschia, the duckbill
platypus, the Boojum tree, and Masdevallia caudivolvula.
Iris,

"Once again"? I don't look in on this group often enough. Presumably you
agree that new biochemical traits arise by mutation, and that if there is no
mutation there will be no variation (except maybe behavioural variation),
and therefore no evolution. Are you seriously proposing that mutations arise
by something more than chance? I thought you were joking when you referred
to plants as professional biochemists. I haven't kept up to date on this, so
if you would care to expound your view of evolutionary events yet again, I'd
be grateful. In any case, when I have time I'll scrounge around for the
current consensus

Colin

"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
Well, just to emphasize this once again:
"random mutation"s do not have much to do with evolution.

Co-evolution with insects is of very great importance, but chance plays
only
a limited part.

Would not be all that surprised to find a 'cheesy' plant with a blue mould
growing through it. I lost a great deal of my ability to be surprised when
discovering greenhouse plants ;-)
PvR

c.mcculloch schreef
PvR is right - evolution doesn't plan anything. In this case, I'd
suggest
that rather than try to imitate the aroma of cheese, this one just
happened
by random mutation, and turned out to be popular with insect pollinators.
That plant therefore produced more seeds than others, and passed the
cheesy
trait to its offspring. Now if you could find one with blue mould growing
through it...

Colin


"Iris Cohen" wrote
Some years ago I had a stapeliad type plant, I forget the name, whose
flowers smell exactly like cheese. Presumably its pollinator was some kind
of cheese fly. My question: mother animals in the wild don't leave their
milk
lying around to turn into cheese. I understand cheese is strictly a human
discovery. So how did a flower evolve that smells like cheese?
Iris,

OK, I have made time to do some reading - there's a lot more to do yet, but
I'll concede the point! The strange thing is that this argument was raging
even when I was working, but I never had much time to look into it.
Syllabuses demanded at best the neodarwinian approach, so it got neglected.

Colin

"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
Well, just to emphasize this once again:
"random mutation"s do not have much to do with evolution.

Co-evolution with insects is of very great importance, but chance plays
only
a limited part.

Would not be all that surprised to find a 'cheesy' plant with a blue mould
growing through it. I lost a great deal of my ability to be surprised when
discovering greenhouse plants ;-)
PvR

c.mcculloch schreef
PvR is right - evolution doesn't plan anything. In this case, I'd
suggest
that rather than try to imitate the aroma of cheese, this one just
happened
by random mutation, and turned out to be popular with insect pollinators.
That plant therefore produced more seeds than others, and passed the
cheesy
trait to its offspring. Now if you could find one with blue mould growing
through it...

Colin


"Iris Cohen" wrote
Some years ago I had a stapeliad type plant, I forget the name, whose
flowers smell exactly like cheese. Presumably its pollinator was some kind
of cheese fly. My question: mother animals in the wild don't leave their
milk
lying around to turn into cheese. I understand cheese is strictly a human
discovery. So how did a flower evolve that smells like cheese?
Iris,

My question: mother animals in the wild don't leave their milk lying
around to turn into cheese.

I only have one idea: having grown up with five younger siblings, I am aware of
something I call "baby cheese" -- cheese deposits behind a baby's ears, where
the milk ran down as it drank. Of course, the mother does clean that up,
whether human or (presumably) animal, so it is of limited use to a fly.

Jie-san Laushi

Huodau lau, xuedau lau, hai you sanfen xue bulai
_____________________________________________
to email: eliminate redundancy

plants in existence with really weird smells (eg flowers with a banana
smell)
Not weird at all. They are pollinated by fruit flies.

Since this was the seventh day wasn't this a Sunday?
Not according to the Hebrew (or American) calendar. Sunday is the first day of
the week & Saturday is the Sabbath. Sunday became the day of rest in the
Christian calendar.


Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

c.mcculloch schreef
I thought you were joking when you referred to plants as professional
biochemists.

+ + +
Truth is stranger than fiction. I could not have thought up greenhouse
plants, yet they exist ...
PvR

plants in existence with really weird smells (eg flowers with a banana
smell)

Iris Cohen schreef
Not weird at all. They are pollinated by fruit flies.

+ + +
Actually this makes sense, sort off, as long as one takes into account that
such flowers can be found on continents that do not have banana's. Also
"fruit flies" should NOT be read as Fruitflies (Drosophila) but as "beetles
and flies living of fruits". This IS something of a stretch ...
+ + +

Since this was the seventh day wasn't this a Sunday?
Not according to the Hebrew (or American) calendar. Sunday is the first
day of the week & Saturday is the Sabbath. Sunday became the day of rest in
the Christian calendar.
Iris,

+ + +
If I read this correctly you are stating that America is a Hebrew country?
Sounds oddly familiar ...
PvR