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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
Note two-group posting: I hope nobody will mind.
European readers will be familiar with tamarisks as robustly salt-tolerant but innocent seaside trees or shrubs; US readers, I find from sci.botany, may know the various species as unstoppable invaders in certain conditions. At http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Does anybody know the pedigree of the new, presumably American, name? What is the oldest printed use we have? It's not in OED1, where *tamarisk" is cited from 1400. Mike. |
#2
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
Not absolutely sure, but it sounds Arabic. In Israel the shrub is known as
Tamarisk, where it has a strong smell of vanilla while in bloom and inhabits the most hostile environments. "Tamar" is actually a Date Palm, there may be some non-botanical relation. -- Rachel http://www.Gnarlodious.com/Cogent/Cogent.html Entity Mike Lyle spoke thus: Note two-group posting: I hope nobody will mind. European readers will be familiar with tamarisks as robustly salt-tolerant but innocent seaside trees or shrubs; US readers, I find from sci.botany, may know the various species as unstoppable invaders in certain conditions. At http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Does anybody know the pedigree of the new, presumably American, name? What is the oldest printed use we have? It's not in OED1, where *tamarisk" is cited from 1400. Mike. |
#3
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
Obviously it is an American name. Only in America is everything with small
scale-like leafs called a "cedar". Wondering how Casuarina escaped ... perhaps it smells wrong PvR Gnarlodious schreef Not absolutely sure, but it sounds Arabic. In Israel the shrub is known as Tamarisk, where it has a strong smell of vanilla while in bloom and inhabits the most hostile environments. "Tamar" is actually a Date Palm, there may be some non-botanical relation. -- Rachel ========= Entity Mike Lyle spoke thus: Note two-group posting: I hope nobody will mind. European readers will be familiar with tamarisks as robustly salt-tolerant but innocent seaside trees or shrubs; US readers, I find from sci.botany, may know the various species as unstoppable invaders in certain conditions. At http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Does anybody know the pedigree of the new, presumably American, name? What is the oldest printed use we have? It's not in OED1, where *tamarisk" is cited from 1400. Mike. |
#4
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
Gnarlodious wrote in message news:b2394982c555783ecbf6e42c9f85661a@TeraNews.. .
Not absolutely sure, but it sounds Arabic. In Israel the shrub is known as Tamarisk, where it has a strong smell of vanilla while in bloom and inhabits the most hostile environments. "Tamar" is actually a Date Palm, there may be some non-botanical relation. -- Rachel http://www.Gnarlodious.com/Cogent/Cogent.html Entity Mike Lyle spoke thus: [...] http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Does anybody know the pedigree of the new, presumably American, name? What is the oldest printed use we have? It's not in OED1, where *tamarisk" is cited from 1400. Sorry: I can't have made myself clear. I was asking about the new name I've met in the American source I quoted: "salt cedar". ("Tamarisk" is from Latin; though it's not known how it got there. There may be an Arabic connection; but if so, it doesn't seem to be reflected in modern Arabic.) Any info on salt cedar? Mike. |
#6
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
Dear All,
Just checked in Hareuveni. The Hebrew for Tamarisk is Eshel, similar to the Arabic Athal. The Latin for Tamarisk is Tamarix, so I guess the English comes from the Latin. But where the Latin comes from I have no idea (yet!). Will think about it. Best Wishes, Martin Not absolutely sure, but it sounds Arabic. In Israel the shrub is known as Tamarisk, where it has a strong smell of vanilla while in bloom and inhabits the most hostile environments. "Tamar" is actually a Date Palm, there may be some non-botanical relation. -- Rachel |
#7
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
Mike Lyle schreef
http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Sorry: I can't have made myself clear. I was asking about the new name I've met in the American source I quoted: "salt cedar". + + + Actually, there appears to be no such name at this link. It is all over the net anyway. + + + Any info on salt cedar? Mike. + + + I guess you will have to go over the American literature of the last 150? years or so to find where it first appeared. The reason why looks easy. PvR |
#8
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
Mike Lyle wrote:
Note two-group posting: I hope nobody will mind. European readers will be familiar with tamarisks as robustly salt-tolerant but innocent seaside trees or shrubs; US readers, I find from sci.botany, may know the various species as unstoppable invaders in certain conditions. At http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Does anybody know the pedigree of the new, presumably American, name? What is the oldest printed use we have? It's not in OED1, where *tamarisk" is cited from 1400. The Dictionary of American English (1938) gives two citations for "salt cedar," one from 1881, the other 1895 (that one refers to the coast of Texas and southern California). -- Best -- Donna Richoux |
#9
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
Donna Richoux wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote: Note two-group posting: I hope nobody will mind. European readers will be familiar with tamarisks as robustly salt-tolerant but innocent seaside trees or shrubs; US readers, I find from sci.botany, may know the various species as unstoppable invaders in certain conditions. At http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Does anybody know the pedigree of the new, presumably American, name? What is the oldest printed use we have? It's not in OED1, where *tamarisk" is cited from 1400. The Dictionary of American English (1938) gives two citations for "salt cedar," one from 1881, the other 1895 (that one refers to the coast of Texas and southern California). OED2 also has 1881 as the earliest citation (from Harper's Magazine). Depending which government site you believe, tamarisk/saltcedar was first imported to the US in either 1837 or the 1850s: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/1999/990708.htm http://www.nps.gov/whsa/tamarisk.htm |
#10
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
(Christopher Green) wrote in message . com...
(Mike Lyle) wrote in message . com... Note two-group posting: I hope nobody will mind. European readers will be familiar with tamarisks as robustly salt-tolerant but innocent seaside trees or shrubs; US readers, I find from sci.botany, may know the various species as unstoppable invaders in certain conditions. At http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Does anybody know the pedigree of the new, presumably American, name? What is the oldest printed use we have? It's not in OED1, where *tamarisk" is cited from 1400. Mike. The more common spelling is one word, "saltcedar". It's unrelated to true cedars, but it has scalelike leaves resembling those of the cedars. The name refers to its ability to survive on brackish water, excreting the salt from its stems and leaves. Nothing attractive about the name; it is one of the most noxious weeds in the western U.S., where it was imported as an ornamental and escaped; considerable resources are expended on its control. I don't know that the plant's invasiveness outside its proper habitat makes the *name* unattractive! but of course it's a matter of taste, and not really important here. I was wondering if anybody had some dated examples which might help us find out when the name was first used in print. Mike. |
#11
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message . ..
Mike Lyle schreef http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Sorry: I can't have made myself clear. I was asking about the new name I've met in the American source I quoted: "salt cedar". + + + Actually, there appears to be no such name at this link. It is all over the net anyway. + + + I'm very sorry: I copied the wrong link. Here's the right one: http://www.cpluhna.nau.edu/Biota/tamarisk.htm [...] I guess you will have to go over the American literature of the last 150? years or so to find where it first appeared.[...] I could do that, certainly. Meanwhile, I live in hope that somebody reading this may have some information on its first printed use. Mike. |
#12
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
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#13
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
In Israel the shrub is known as Tamarisk, where it has a strong smell of
vanilla while in bloom and inhabits the most hostile environments. "Tamar" is actually a Date Palm, there may be some non-botanical relation. BRBR The word Tamarisk is from the Latin Tamarix. I have known people who cannot pronounce Tamarisk (or asterisk either) and call it Tamarix no matter how it is spelled. In Hebrew the name is Eshel. Tamar is actually the date fruit in Hebrew. The date palm tree is Tomer. Incidentally, the Biblical passages which refer to milk and honey or other fruits and honey, really mean dates, not bee honey. The reason Tamarisk is called salt-cedar is because it is so tolerant of brackish water. It will draw salty water up from its roots and transpire it through the leaves, leaving a coating of salt crystals on the leaves. If you stand under a large Tamarisk on a hot dry day, the moist air coming from the leaves is cooling and refreshing. That is why Abraham planted a Tamarisk tree in Beersheba. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
#14
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
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#15
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Tamarisk: origin of "salt cedar"
(Mike Lyle) wrote in message . com...
(Christopher Green) wrote in message . com... (Mike Lyle) wrote in message . com... Note two-group posting: I hope nobody will mind. European readers will be familiar with tamarisks as robustly salt-tolerant but innocent seaside trees or shrubs; US readers, I find from sci.botany, may know the various species as unstoppable invaders in certain conditions. At http://internet.cybermesa.com/~bludevil/P6160002.JPG the attractive name "salt cedar" is given as an alternative. Does anybody know the pedigree of the new, presumably American, name? What is the oldest printed use we have? It's not in OED1, where *tamarisk" is cited from 1400. Mike. The more common spelling is one word, "saltcedar". It's unrelated to true cedars, but it has scalelike leaves resembling those of the cedars. The name refers to its ability to survive on brackish water, excreting the salt from its stems and leaves. Nothing attractive about the name; it is one of the most noxious weeds in the western U.S., where it was imported as an ornamental and escaped; considerable resources are expended on its control. I don't know that the plant's invasiveness outside its proper habitat makes the *name* unattractive! but of course it's a matter of taste, and not really important here. Maybe in the sense that "rat" can be said not to be an unattractive name :-) Saltcedar, or salt cedar (the one-word and two-word forms are often interchanged in the same work), usually refers to T. ramosissima and other tamarisks that are invasive and destructive in the western U.S. For example, on Google, 19 of the first 20 hits on 'saltcedar or "salt cedar"' describe the tree as invasive or a noxious weed, or give information on eradication programs. -- Chris Green |
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