For buffering have you tried something more natural like oystershell chicken
grit or small limestone rocks? I found neither one raises the PH much but
does buffer the water and keeps the PH from dropping. Both keep the water
above 7.

What is oystershell chicken grit?

Limestone rocks is a good idea. I imagine it will take some time to
equilibrate, but once it does, it should stay pretty solid. I'd be
really happy if I could manage to keep the carbonate hardness up
without the pH going so high.

Thanks!

Joan

About once a month I drain off about a third of the water. We don't really
measure it. Then slowly refill from the hose using a dechlorinator. We buy
the crystals and mix our own. Or you can degass the water by running it in
slowly over a trashcan lid exposing a thin layer of water to the air. That
is if you have something to set the lit on over the water. You can also add
water by letting it run down a waterfall. If you have chloromines in your
water that will not work.

Oh! Good idea about running it down the waterfall! I do have an
in-line dechlorinator I can put on my hose, but running the water
down the waterfall ought to give me an added measure of security.

When we do a draindown all the fish go in to an aerated child's kiddy pool
of 1/2 pond and 1/2 fresh water with a hardware cloth surround and net over
the top because fish jump. We also have too many predators here not to net
the top. I add plants and a floating cooler lid for them to hide under. They
go back in the next morning.

All right, thanks for all the good ideas. I've been nervous about
disturbing the fish too much, but I know it's a much bigger threat to
them if their water and pond aren't maintained properly.

Joan

Fortunately, I live in Pacific Northwest like you, where we get plenty
of rain in the fall, winter, and spring, and the pond has a nice
overflow, so I think we've been getting some water exchange that way.
Joan

Chuckle You must live on the wet side of the state? I've yet to see a
rain heavy enough to give me overflow here on the East side. ;-) ~ jan

Ah. Yes, I'm on the wet side.

Joan

Fortunately, I live in Pacific Northwest like you, where we get plenty
of rain in the fall, winter, and spring, and the pond has a nice
overflow, so I think we've been getting some water exchange that way.
Joan

Speaking of rain, that can really lower the buffering.... but you said
you've checked it straight from the tap? ~ jan

Yep. Totally soft.

Joan

Fortunately, I live in Pacific Northwest like you, where we get plenty
of rain in the fall, winter, and spring, and the pond has a nice
overflow, so I think we've been getting some water exchange that way.
======================
Rain, containing no minerals, will soften your water, washing out your
buffering capacity and lowering your PH. Check after a heavy rain.

I often do. Yup, washes a bunch of minerals out. I have to keep a
close eye on hardness during the rainy season.

We can't use the pond vac in our ponds because one pond is too deep and in
both, and the "stuff" at the bottom clogs in the hose. If these vacs work
for you - more power to you! :-)

So far the Pond-o-vac is being temperamental. I'm hoping we just have
to get used to each other.

Joan

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:21:52 EDT, Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:58:50 EDT, ~ jan wrote:

I've yet to see a
rain heavy enough to give me overflow here on the East side. ;-) ~ jan

If it doesn't overflow, where does it go? Does all the rainfall
evaporate?

It doesn't overflow because it doesn't rain long enough to bring it up to
the level it would overflow. Now say I'd had filled it all the way full,
and then it rained, yes, I would have overflow. ;-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

"Joan" wrote in message
...
For buffering have you tried something more natural like oystershell
chicken
grit or small limestone rocks? I found neither one raises the PH much but
does buffer the water and keeps the PH from dropping. Both keep the water
above 7.

What is oystershell chicken grit?

It's fed to hens to help keep eggshells strong. It's oystershells and what
looks like clam shells ground into small chips. They slowly dissolve in
moving water.

Limestone rocks is a good idea. I imagine it will take some time to
equilibrate, but once it does, it should stay pretty solid. I'd be
really happy if I could manage to keep the carbonate hardness up
without the pH going so high.

The limestone rocks wont raise the PH like those store bought products can.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Joan" wrote in message
...
All right, thanks for all the good ideas. I've been nervous about
disturbing the fish too much, but I know it's a much bigger threat to
them if their water and pond aren't maintained properly.
===================
Fish get used to it. I have never lost a fish because of a draindown. :-)
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Joan" wrote in message
...
So far the Pond-o-vac is being temperamental. I'm hoping we just have
to get used to each other.
============================
Another reason I stopped using the vac to remove the mulm on the bottom was
newts and small frogs were getting killed when sucked up. They don't survive
the trip through to the tank. Small fish are injured beyond saving. I
always have these small creatures in my ponds.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Reel McKoi wrote:

Another reason I stopped using the vac to remove the mulm on the bottom
was newts and small frogs were getting killed when sucked up. They don't
survive the trip through to the tank. Small fish are injured beyond
saving. I always have these small creatures in my ponds.

Then how do you clean the mulm out? or do you leave it?

Chip

"Chip" wrote in message ...
Reel McKoi wrote:

Another reason I stopped using the vac to remove the mulm on the bottom
was newts and small frogs were getting killed when sucked up. They don't
survive the trip through to the tank. Small fish are injured beyond
saving. I always have these small creatures in my ponds.

Then how do you clean the mulm out? or do you leave it?
=====================
We first pump the pond down as low as possible and net all the fish and
other creatures out. The net also gets the twigs and leaves out. What's
left is the mulm. We suck that out with the wet-dry vac. Rinse the sides and
suck it out again. By then it's clean on the bottom. I do leave the coat of
algae and bacteria on the sides, just hose it down to get the lose stuff
off.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Thanks to everybody who gave advice. I did do a big (maybe 33%) water
change, and you guys were right; the water looks much better. The pH
is hanging at around 8.0, and the KH is around 75 ppm. I'm thinking
maybe I will have to settle for a slightly low KH?

[snip; oystershell chicken grit?

It's fed to hens to help keep eggshells strong. It's oystershells and what
looks like clam shells ground into small chips. They slowly dissolve in
moving water.

Ah. You know, I tried oyster shells once. Put a bunch in a leg of
pantyhose and put it near the waterfall. Put another leg in the
skimmer. Never seemed to do much.

You know, I added some buffer over the winter as the KH dropped. I
wonder if some of it fell to the bottom and now, with the warmer
weather, it's going into solution, raising the pH.

I had been under the impression that there is a limit to how much
calcium carbonate can raise the pH, since it's relatively in soluble,
and a fully saturated solution still has a safe pH. I'm beginning to
think that may not be the case.


The limestone rocks wont raise the PH like those store bought products can.

This is the thing I don't understand, since the manufacturers of "Buff
it Up" claim that it is almost all calcium carbonate.

Joan