I spotted a good size water moccasin (4+ feet long) in my pond last night.
Well, it wasn't exactly in my pond but curled up under the liner on the edge
of the pond. My pond is not typical in that it's built into a slope. It's a
tear drop shaped 3,000 gallon pond with a filter/falls at one end. The "down
side" is built up a little more than 3 feet above ground with inter-locking
blocks and the other side is only about 6 inches above ground.

The mint in the filter/falls has really taken off and was diverting water
off to one side and out of the pond. I pulled out a bunch of mint and then
was topping off the pond when I noticed that liner had sunk in a little on
the down side. I removed the rock on top of the liner and pulled back the
liner and there was the moccasin, curled up underneath. I got a hoe and
poked at it. It came out of the liner, dropped out on the ground and came
towards me for about 10 feet with me hauling it the other way. It then
darted underneath some ivy that cascades down the block wall onto the
ground. I poked it again and it high tailed it the other way and disappeared
into a crevice behind the filter/falls where there's a small opening in the
block. No telling what kind of tunnel network exists underneath and between
the block and the liner. (I'm not sure I'm describing it so you can "see"
what I'm talking about.)

Anyway, I'm a little concerned about having a water moccasin in my pond. I
got to thinking that it's probably a perfect place for one to live. Lots of
food in the pond - small goldfish, etc. I'm not concerned about it getting
my Koi because they're 2 feet + and approach 10 pounds or so. I get into the
pond frequently to prune plants and clean out a pre-filter I have attached
to a 1600 gph pump with a foamer attachment. I've seen king snakes in the
pond before but these never bothered me in that they always run the other
way and don't go looking for trouble because they're not aggressive like a
water moccasin.

Any advice on what to do? We live on a lake and I'd like for it to go back
from where it came!

TIA

JB

On Sat, 31 May 2008 16:42:12 EDT, "JB" wrote:

I spotted a good size water moccasin (4+ feet long) in my pond last night.
Well, it wasn't exactly in my pond but curled up under the liner on the edge
of the pond. My pond is not typical in that it's built into a slope. It's a
tear drop shaped 3,000 gallon pond with a filter/falls at one end. The "down
side" is built up a little more than 3 feet above ground with inter-locking
blocks and the other side is only about 6 inches above ground.

The mint in the filter/falls has really taken off and was diverting water
off to one side and out of the pond. I pulled out a bunch of mint and then
was topping off the pond when I noticed that liner had sunk in a little on
the down side. I removed the rock on top of the liner and pulled back the
liner and there was the moccasin, curled up underneath. I got a hoe and
poked at it. It came out of the liner, dropped out on the ground and came
towards me for about 10 feet with me hauling it the other way. It then
darted underneath some ivy that cascades down the block wall onto the
ground. I poked it again and it high tailed it the other way and disappeared
into a crevice behind the filter/falls where there's a small opening in the
block. No telling what kind of tunnel network exists underneath and between
the block and the liner. (I'm not sure I'm describing it so you can "see"
what I'm talking about.)

Anyway, I'm a little concerned about having a water moccasin in my pond. I
got to thinking that it's probably a perfect place for one to live. Lots of
food in the pond - small goldfish, etc. I'm not concerned about it getting
my Koi because they're 2 feet + and approach 10 pounds or so. I get into the
pond frequently to prune plants and clean out a pre-filter I have attached
to a 1600 gph pump with a foamer attachment. I've seen king snakes in the
pond before but these never bothered me in that they always run the other
way and don't go looking for trouble because they're not aggressive like a
water moccasin.

Any advice on what to do? We live on a lake and I'd like for it to go back
from where it came!

TIA

JB

It may not be a water moccasin (cottonmouth). In virtually every
local where the cottonmouth is found there is at least one (often
several) types of non-poisonous snakes that look almost identical.
However, unless you are absolutely sure, beyond *any* (not even
reasonable) doubt that what you see is in fact a non-poisonous snake
it is best to treat it as though it is a cottonmouth.

You have basically two choices: either you can call some animal
control type and dump the whole mess on them or you can deal with it
yourself. I don't care what some folks say, some claim that the
snake is just very territorial, I say it is aggressive. Very
aggressive. I've been chased by one, and they are quicker than you
might imagine too. You can't just ignore it and hope it goes away. If
you live on a lake calling someone is likely to get real expensive
real quick. If it were me, I'd study up and get real good at
identifying snakes, dispatch a cottonmouth when I had to, and learn to
live with the other snakes. However, it may come down to a choice
between your koi and the snakes (you might be surprised at what they
can eat, even small snakes), and you've indicated which way you lean.

I'm only a few miles from the Suwannee River, and here we get
alligators that wander into our ponds. The law protects them, you
can't hardly do anything to them except call someone with a state
license if you don't want them where they want to be. At least
alligators aren't nearly as aggressive, and, as I'm too cheap to call
anyone to (re)move them, much easier to live with.

Galen Hekhuis

Except for coral snakes, all US snakes with ROUND eyes are non-
poisonous. If it has vertical arcs () in the eyes, it is poisonous.

Water snakes look like moccasins and are aggressive. They do not have
the very white mouth and they do have round eyes.

Jim

On May 31, 3:42 pm, "JB" wrote:
I spotted a good size water moccasin (4+ feet long) in my pond last night.

Well, it wasn't exactly in my pond but curled up under the liner on the ed
ge
of the pond. My pond is not typical in that it's built into a slope. It's
a
tear drop shaped 3,000 gallon pond with a filter/falls at one end. The "do
wn
side" is built up a little more than 3 feet above ground with inter-lockin
g
blocks and the other side is only about 6 inches above ground.

The mint in the filter/falls has really taken off and was diverting water
off to one side and out of the pond. I pulled out a bunch of mint and then

was topping off the pond when I noticed that liner had sunk in a little
on
the down side. I removed the rock on top of the liner and pulled back the
liner and there was the moccasin, curled up underneath. I got a hoe and
poked at it. It came out of the liner, dropped out on the ground and came
towards me for about 10 feet with me hauling it the other way. It then
darted underneath some ivy that cascades down the block wall onto the
ground. I poked it again and it high tailed it the other way and disappear
ed
into a crevice behind the filter/falls where there's a small opening in th
e
block. No telling what kind of tunnel network exists underneath and betwee
n
the block and the liner. (I'm not sure I'm describing it so you can "see"
what I'm talking about.)

Anyway, I'm a little concerned about having a water moccasin in my pond. I

got to thinking that it's probably a perfect place for one to live. Lots o
f
food in the pond - small goldfish, etc. I'm not concerned about it getting

my Koi because they're 2 feet + and approach 10 pounds or so. I get into t
he
pond frequently to prune plants and clean out a pre-filter I have attached

to a 1600 gph pump with a foamer attachment. I've seen king snakes in the
pond before but these never bothered me in that they always run the other
way and don't go looking for trouble because they're not aggressive like a

water moccasin.

Any advice on what to do? We live on a lake and I'd like for it to go back

from where it came!

TIA

JB

Around here we execute poisonous snakes, esp moccasins, as they are
aggressive...as you saw. If you do kill it, be careful of the head.
Their nervous system lasts a long time, even if the spine is severed.
Smash the head is the rule here.

Jim

JB

Around here we execute poisonous snakes, esp moccasins, as they are
aggressive...as you saw. If you do kill it, be careful of the head.
Their nervous system lasts a long time, even if the spine is severed.
Smash the head is the rule here.

Jim


Even a non-poisonous snake will make you hurt yourself when one suprises
you.

On Sat, 31 May 2008 21:40:56 EDT, Phyllis and Jim
wrote:

On May 31, 3:42 pm, "JB" wrote:
I spotted a good size water moccasin (4+ feet long) in my pond last night.

Well, it wasn't exactly in my pond but curled up under the liner on the ed
ge
of the pond. My pond is not typical in that it's built into a slope. It's
a
tear drop shaped 3,000 gallon pond with a filter/falls at one end. The "do
wn
side" is built up a little more than 3 feet above ground with inter-lockin
g
blocks and the other side is only about 6 inches above ground.

The mint in the filter/falls has really taken off and was diverting water
off to one side and out of the pond. I pulled out a bunch of mint and then

was topping off the pond when I noticed that liner had sunk in a little
on
the down side. I removed the rock on top of the liner and pulled back the
liner and there was the moccasin, curled up underneath. I got a hoe and
poked at it. It came out of the liner, dropped out on the ground and came
towards me for about 10 feet with me hauling it the other way. It then
darted underneath some ivy that cascades down the block wall onto the
ground. I poked it again and it high tailed it the other way and disappear
ed
into a crevice behind the filter/falls where there's a small opening in th
e
block. No telling what kind of tunnel network exists underneath and betwee
n
the block and the liner. (I'm not sure I'm describing it so you can "see"
what I'm talking about.)

Anyway, I'm a little concerned about having a water moccasin in my pond. I

got to thinking that it's probably a perfect place for one to live. Lots o
f
food in the pond - small goldfish, etc. I'm not concerned about it getting

my Koi because they're 2 feet + and approach 10 pounds or so. I get into t
he
pond frequently to prune plants and clean out a pre-filter I have attached

to a 1600 gph pump with a foamer attachment. I've seen king snakes in the
pond before but these never bothered me in that they always run the other
way and don't go looking for trouble because they're not aggressive like a

water moccasin.

Any advice on what to do? We live on a lake and I'd like for it to go back

from where it came!

TIA

JB

Around here we execute poisonous snakes, esp moccasins, as they are
aggressive...as you saw. If you do kill it, be careful of the head.
Their nervous system lasts a long time, even if the spine is severed.
Smash the head is the rule here.

Jim

What he said. Even completely severed heads of snakes have been known
to "bite" out of reflex several hours after they have been severed,
delivering a powerful (though very rarely fatal) dose of venom.
Galen Hekhuis

"JB" wrote in
m:

I spotted a good size water moccasin (4+ feet long) in my pond last
night. Well, it wasn't exactly in my pond but curled up under the
liner on the edge of the pond. My pond is not typical in that it's
built into a slope. It's a tear drop shaped 3,000 gallon pond with a
filter/falls at one end. The "down side" is built up a little more
than 3 feet above ground with inter-locking blocks and the other side
is only about 6 inches above ground.

Any advice on what to do? We live on a lake and I'd like for it to go
back from where it came!

TIA

JB



Move to Nevada. The worst we have to deal with out here is Racoons. Our
snakes don't like water.

Shalom!
Michael Lee

One rec.ponder caught a snake in her pond using a
minnow trap. Baited with a fish and the snake swam in
and couldn't get out. She left part of the trap above water.
Depending on the size of the snake you might have to modify
the opening.
Continued harassment might do the job.
otoh, I have no problem dispatching a poison snake who
won't leave.

We had a fellow who was bitten by a decapitated rattlesnake
head in our area.

k :-)

Minnow trap.... I'd not heard of that before. Thanks for the tip. No sign
of this snake since Friday evening.


"kathy" wrote in message
...
One rec.ponder caught a snake in her pond using a
minnow trap. Baited with a fish and the snake swam in
and couldn't get out. She left part of the trap above water.
Depending on the size of the snake you might have to modify
the opening.
Continued harassment might do the job.
otoh, I have no problem dispatching a poison snake who
won't leave.

We had a fellow who was bitten by a decapitated rattlesnake
head in our area.

k :-)

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:31:59 EDT, "JB" wrote:

Minnow trap.... I'd not heard of that before. Thanks for the tip. No sign
of this snake since Friday evening.

Just remember an aggressive snake is not likely to say "thank you" and
just happily slither off upon release, although it may. The snake
might have developed quite an attitude, so to speak. It is best not
to be there when the snake is released.
Galen Hekhuis

That's a good point. The snake caught in the trap wasn't a
cottonmouth. The trap I had involved working a release that
was right up against the trap.
The one time I had to deal with a snake in my house - the closest
I got was ten feet way and that was when I spotted it.

k :-)

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 16:42:12 EDT, "JB" wrote:


snipped


It may not be a water moccasin (cottonmouth). In virtually every
local where the cottonmouth is found there is at least one (often
several) types of non-poisonous snakes that look almost identical.
However, unless you are absolutely sure, beyond *any* (not even
reasonable) doubt that what you see is in fact a non-poisonous snake
it is best to treat it as though it is a cottonmouth.

You have basically two choices: either you can call some animal
control type and dump the whole mess on them or you can deal with it
yourself. I don't care what some folks say, some claim that the
snake is just very territorial, I say it is aggressive. Very
aggressive. I've been chased by one, and they are quicker than you
might imagine too.
snipped

Hi,
You were not being chased, just two scared critters going the same
direction. IME with snakes, poisonous ones _tend_ to 'hold their ground'
within their striking range and non-poisonous _tend_ to split. Don't
rely on this as a means of identification. Both the water moccasin and
other non-poisonous similar looking snakes are there for lunch and all
will bite.
http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/ecoview/Eco1.htm says:
/quote
"Will snakes chase people? Many species of snakes, both poisonous and
harmless, will defend themselves or not move out of the way when
approached. But no U.S. snake will chase a person in an effort to hurt
them."
/unquote
HTH -_- how

--
no NEWS is good

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:31:59 EDT, "JB" wrote:

Minnow trap.... I'd not heard of that before. Thanks for the tip. No
sign of this snake since Friday evening.

[ . . . ]It is best not to be there when the snake is released.

A friend of mine, in Thailand, has a recurring problem with rats in the
attic. He baits and sets a live trap and in the morning picks up the trap
and its occupant. He sets it out in the Sun to warm up after a chilly night
in a steel trap. At the end of the day, he empties the trap into the trash
bin. Safest way. Might take a few days for a cottonmouth.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 23:30:07 EDT, how wrote:

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 16:42:12 EDT, "JB" wrote:


snipped


It may not be a water moccasin (cottonmouth). In virtually every
local where the cottonmouth is found there is at least one (often
several) types of non-poisonous snakes that look almost identical.
However, unless you are absolutely sure, beyond *any* (not even
reasonable) doubt that what you see is in fact a non-poisonous snake
it is best to treat it as though it is a cottonmouth.

You have basically two choices: either you can call some animal
control type and dump the whole mess on them or you can deal with it
yourself. I don't care what some folks say, some claim that the
snake is just very territorial, I say it is aggressive. Very
aggressive. I've been chased by one, and they are quicker than you
might imagine too.
snipped

Hi,
You were not being chased, just two scared critters going the same
direction. IME with snakes, poisonous ones _tend_ to 'hold their ground'
within their striking range and non-poisonous _tend_ to split. Don't
rely on this as a means of identification. Both the water moccasin and
other non-poisonous similar looking snakes are there for lunch and all
will bite.
http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/ecoview/Eco1.htm says:
/quote
"Will snakes chase people? Many species of snakes, both poisonous and
harmless, will defend themselves or not move out of the way when
approached. But no U.S. snake will chase a person in an effort to hurt
them."
/unquote
HTH -_- how

Generally I'd agree with you. I'm a caver, and have been for over 40
years. As such, I've had many opportunities to crawl in little wet
holes all over the country, places frequented by all kinds of snakes.
I am also a bit of an amateur herpetologist, in that I can identify
positively a great number of reptiles. I have (and use frequently)
several many "nature" and identification guides. I maintain about 25
acres here in northern Florida, and have encountered numerous snakes
while driving my tractor and such. I have encountered several
rattlesnakes on the property. None of these snakes bother me, neither
have I killed or harassed any of them. I'm pretty much a "live and
let live" type of guy. I even have a family of black widow spiders
happily living under my fake rock hiding my air pump.

Have it your way, no snake will "chase" you. Then the cottonmouth is
terribly territorial, and it considers its territory to extend approx
150 feet from wherever it happens to be at the moment, and it will
aggressively defend its territory. This is the only snake in the US
that bothers me at all.
Galen Hekhuis

I agree with Galen. I have seen scared moccasins come some distance
after people that scared them. I don't know how territorial they are,
but they don't like being bothered. Two scared beings running the
same way....

Jim