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#1
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Kathy,
I appreciate your concern and am certainly not offended by it. I would love to hear how your ignoring the rules came back to hurt you. I would far ratehr learn from someone ELSE's mistakes than make them myself! I have thought about the issue of water change, but have not begun any regular steps. I am well satisfied they do not need 10% per week (read 400 gal = drain one berm pond per week)as we have gone years without it, but realize that there will be some concentrating of non-evaporating stuff in the water. I am confident I will never do a regular 10% change. I should probably do the dilution rate math to see how a regular 10% change would work out over time, i.e. take account of the increase in concentration by addition of water and the dilution by draining the concentrated water and adding fresh water. As I remarked, we do drain all the berm ponds annually to remove muck. That is one 25% change per year. Beyond that we have additions and the occasional pump-stop-drains-150-gal-from-the-barrels events. I am open to the thought of draining a berm pond per week. I would have to make sure it did not have fish I want in it! Probably, I would develop a collar/filter to put over the drain to retain a couple of inches of water after draining and to keep the fish from going down. I think it more likely that I would do several 25% changes. The replacement rate from the toilet filter is slow enough that the chlorine is no problem when we remove a substantial amount of water. I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per fish. If I applied the 1000-for-the-1st-and-100-per-additional-koi formula, we have 333 gal per additional koi. If I count goldies as 1/2 a koi, I might have 14 koi-equivalents in the 3000 gal. That is still well over 200 gal per additional koi. The water circulates down falls and streams at a nominal 2000 gal/hr rate (tho my measurements look more like 1500 gal/hr). The aeration seems fine, even excessive. I was holding the view that our basic understocking helps with water quality. Could you point me to sites that will help me see at what point the growing mineral concentration and not replacing water is a major threat? Thanks Jim ~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: Our pond system has 3K gallons in the main pond and 1K gallons in the berm ponds and barrels. The pond has about 10 koi, full sized, and about the same number of goldfish. The berm plants do a great job of handling the muck...growth like crazy and clear water. We have not done any regular water changes. The toilet valve does replace the evaporation on a regular basis...MS is very hot. The koi don't seem to have suffetred any particular problems from the lack of changes. They have grown like weeds and are 20 to 28". The ratio of koi per gallon is pretty good. That may help. Jim Now bear with me, I'm not trying to be a "I know better than thou" here. It is just I'm trying to prevent my mistakes passing on to another. I, too, wasn't real good about doing my water changes as the experts suggest. It finally bit me in the butt, and that is my concern/worry for you. Some of those experts would consider your situation on the high end of the stocking rate. Fish are bigger, pond stays the same, all the more reason to follow their advice.... or, since I'm suggesting it "go not where I have been". ;o) ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ |
#2
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"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message ... I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per fish. ======================== We have 15 koi in a well filtered 2000 gallon Pond and they're thriving. -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED. My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm |
#3
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Cracklin' wrote:
"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message ... I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per fish. ======================== We have 15 koi in a well filtered 2000 gallon Pond and they're thriving. Doesn't seem too much to me. 15 koi in 2000 gallons shouldn't even be pushing it. -- derek |
#4
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"Derek Broughton" wrote in message ... Cracklin' wrote: "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message ... I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per fish. ======================== We have 15 koi in a well filtered 2000 gallon Pond and they're thriving. Doesn't seem too much to me. 15 koi in 2000 gallons shouldn't even be pushing it. -- derek ============================= I do partial water changes regularly and I'm sure the plantfilter-settling tank with the small aeration tower also helps keep the water in excellent condition. This pond, like the other pond and pools, is loaded with a variety of thriving plants along 3 sides. The only additive is the Koi-Zyme a few times over the spring and summer. The plants get the Potassium and a few handfuls of kitty litter now and then. Only the water lilies get the Job's Rose Spikes. This summer I only added them in the spring to see how long they would last. Unlike the expensive fertilizer Tabs made for pond plants, these Jobe's sticks still have the lilies blooming like crazy and they're still a dark green. :-) I love 'em! -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
#5
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Kathy,
Not sure how Kathy (poor thing (K30/kathy) just can't stay out of here even when she has totally exited) got caught up in this, but I (~jan) was the one posted about water changes. I am confident I will never do a regular 10% change. Well than, I probably can't change your mind. I am interested that you see us as overstocked. Not overstocked, but more like at critical mass. Where everything is perfect, but might not take much to upset the apple cart. Could you point me to sites that will help me see at what point the growing mineral concentration and not replacing water is a major threat? The one I sent hotpepper to: http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange Even though it is probably futile for me to continue, perhaps someone else will take heed from my story. In my case, I was doing water changes of 25%/month, was over critical mass, and didn't sell off or give away enough koi fast enough. The only thing that was showing on my water tests was very low ammonia. So I had overcrowding and that barely detectable ammonia as the stressors. Ended up dropping my koi numbers by half quick, but I sure got hands on learning experience on treating for ulcers. I'm now a believer in those 10%/week water changes, and had the guys put in an attachment to make it easier for me to do them. Spike Cover (head coordinator of the KHA program) did an article on, what is better? Drain down 10% and refill, or remove from one end while filling at the other (overflow)? Turned out they both worked equally well for reducing "stuff" in the water column, so that is the one I use now. I'm also a believer in Koizyme. Unfortunately, because my numbers were drastically reduced they spawned, so I'm back to serious reducing again come next spring.s ~ jan (Do you know where your water quality is?) |
#6
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Oops...wrong person. Sorry Kathy (gone) and Jan.
I will read the article you posted tomorrow. Jim ~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: Kathy, Not sure how Kathy (poor thing (K30/kathy) just can't stay out of here even when she has totally exited) got caught up in this, but I (~jan) was the one posted about water changes. I am confident I will never do a regular 10% change. Well than, I probably can't change your mind. I am interested that you see us as overstocked. Not overstocked, but more like at critical mass. Where everything is perfect, but might not take much to upset the apple cart. Could you point me to sites that will help me see at what point the growing mineral concentration and not replacing water is a major threat? The one I sent hotpepper to: http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange Even though it is probably futile for me to continue, perhaps someone else will take heed from my story. In my case, I was doing water changes of 25%/month, was over critical mass, and didn't sell off or give away enough koi fast enough. The only thing that was showing on my water tests was very low ammonia. So I had overcrowding and that barely detectable ammonia as the stressors. Ended up dropping my koi numbers by half quick, but I sure got hands on learning experience on treating for ulcers. I'm now a believer in those 10%/week water changes, and had the guys put in an attachment to make it easier for me to do them. Spike Cover (head coordinator of the KHA program) did an article on, what is better? Drain down 10% and refill, or remove from one end while filling at the other (overflow)? Turned out they both worked equally well for reducing "stuff" in the water column, so that is the one I use now. I'm also a believer in Koizyme. Unfortunately, because my numbers were drastically reduced they spawned, so I'm back to serious reducing again come next spring.s ~ jan (Do you know where your water quality is?) |
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