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New Pond Keeper needs help
I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of
England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very recently. Its about 3000 ltrs (650 gals) 2m X 3m X 0.7m and I think its many years old, I think its made of concrete and has some very attractive stonework around and in the pond, the sides look like stone bricks. Someone obviously spent a lot of time on it so I thought I should do something with it. It's in a very shady spot but does get some direct sunshine in the middle of the afternoon. It was not filtered and everything was overgrown, it basically looked like a swap. I started by clearing all the overgrown vegetation and have left a decent sized patch of Lilly's in the middle with some oxygenators and reeds. Then (I didn't now about pond vacs at this point) dredged the bottom with my bare hands then a coarse net, then a fine net. So now I have a thin layer of sludge at the bottom. I then added a good quality filtration system with a small water fall, UV clarifier, an air ball and some lighting. I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits, 3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in. Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they are ok. The water was very murky but after a few days it has started to clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no longer green. My questions a 1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning? 2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the pond and does this need to be done every year? 3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond? 4 - Is there anything else I should do? 5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond? 5 - Where have the Tench gone? Sorry for the long story but I didn't want to leave anything out but needless to say but I am now totally hooked!!! Thanks in advance for you help. |
"hotpepper" wrote in message ups.com... I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very recently. Its about 3000 ltrs (650 gals) 2m X 3m X 0.7m and I think its many years old, I think its made of concrete and has some very attractive stonework around and in the pond, the sides look like stone bricks. Someone obviously spent a lot of time on it so I thought I should do something with it. It's in a very shady spot but does get some direct sunshine in the middle of the afternoon. ## Many pond plants grow in partial sun. It was not filtered and everything was overgrown, it basically looked like a swap. I started by clearing all the overgrown vegetation and have left a decent sized patch of Lilly's in the middle with some oxygenators and reeds. ## Speaking only for myself I would clean out the whole thing. I'd refill it and add the most attractive plants back to this pond. Discard or give the rest away. Then (I didn't now about pond vacs at this point) dredged the bottom with my bare hands then a coarse net, then a fine net. So now I have a thin layer of sludge at the bottom. I then added a good quality filtration system with a small water fall, UV clarifier, an air ball and some lighting. ## I sounds like it's a pretty pond. ;-) I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits, 3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in. ## I would say that's too many fish for only 650 gallons. With good care and feeding they will grow rapidly. Goldfish can get almost a foot long and you now have 12 of them. They also reproduce like crazy. Watch for an ammonia or Nitrite spike. Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they are ok. The water was very murky but after a few days it has started to clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no longer green. My questions a 1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning? ## I would have cleaned EVERYTHING out including the sludge on the bottom and started over. 2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the pond and does this need to be done every year? ## We do ours every other year but they range from 2000 to 800 gallons and we don't has as many fish per gallon as you do. 3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond? ## NO!!!! It's much to small for koi. Koi can reach 3 feet long. 4 - Is there anything else I should do? ## Watch for ammonia and nitrite spikes. You have a lot of fish in a small pond. 5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond? ## That depends on their size and how good your filtration system is. 5 - Where have the Tench gone? ## Hiding perhaps? Sorry for the long story but I didn't want to leave anything out but needless to say but I am now totally hooked!!! ## That's how it happens. :-) Thanks in advance for you help. -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
Thanks for your reply, your pond pics look fantastic - if only I had
the space. I think with hindsight I would have drainded and cleaned it but wasnt really sure. I will proably wait till late spring next year and give it a good clean out. My local garden centre does free pond water tests so I will go down this weekend with my sample :-) I was hoping that the Orfes would keep the numbers down but I will watch out if the numbers start racking up. I'm sure I can find people to take them in my local area if the numbers get to much and will reduce further as they get bigger. I hope the Filtration is top of the range - I spent a small fortune on it - it filters the entire pond every 30 mins. The Filter spec is for 1500US gallons and the pond is aprox 800 US gallons - I quoted UK gallons before. |
hotpepper wrote:
I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits, 3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in. Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they are ok. Tench are pretty much muddy-water-colored, aren't they? They'll probably show up. The water was very murky but after a few days it has started to clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no longer green. My questions a 1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning? Mostly. I wouldn't have put new fish in until the muck you'd stirred up settled out, and you should really quarantine new fish if you don't want to risk killing off the ones you already had. 2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the pond and does this need to be done every year? 3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond? I think not - it's pretty shallow. 4 - Is there anything else I should do? Enjoy! 5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond? No more for now. They'll breed (at least assuming you've got some of both sexes for each species - which is pretty much guaranteed for the goldfish/Comets/Shebunkins, which are all the same species), and before you know it, you'll be asking us how to get rid of the extras. 5 - Where have the Tench gone? It's amazing how fish can hide. Unless your water is clear enough to actually see the bottom, it's rarely quite as clear as you think it is, so that helps then hide. Then they take advantage of any bit of foliage, and many fish are particularly timid when first introduced to a new pond. If you were missing an assortment of fish, I might think a predator had found the pond already, but since it's just the Tench, I'm sure they're hiding. -- derek |
"hotpepper" wrote in message ups.com... Thanks for your reply, your pond pics look fantastic - if only I had the space. I think with hindsight I would have drainded and cleaned it but wasnt really sure. I will proably wait till late spring next year and give it a good clean out. My local garden centre does free pond water tests so I will go down this weekend with my sample :-) ## Excellent. I was hoping that the Orfes would keep the numbers down but I will watch out if the numbers start racking up. I'm sure I can find people to take them in my local area if the numbers get to much and will reduce further as they get bigger. ## Good luck there! Everyone in my area have already taken all the fish they want or need from us. I don't know what I'm going to do with the few hundred koi and shubunkin fry behind the house. I already sold a bunch! I have a tentative buyer but he doesn't want them until next March. The other day I noticed my large pond has yet another crop of koi fry! I hope the Filtration is top of the range - I spent a small fortune on it - it filters the entire pond every 30 mins. The Filter spec is for 1500US gallons and the pond is aprox 800 US gallons - I quoted UK gallons before. ## It sure sounds adequate. Although koi get quite large, if you were willing to get rid of what you have now you can keep a pair of koi in an 800 gallon pond. We favor them over the goldfish any day, and may phase out the goldfish (Shubunkins) altogether over time. -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED. My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm Make sure of which Reel McKoi you're replying to - the TROLL from alt.religion.jehovahs-witn is using other people's names to bypass killfiles. There are now TWO Reel McKoi's posting here. There is no limit to how low a religious fanatic will stoop to silence someone or get an audience for themselves when ignored. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
"Derek Broughton" wrote in message ... hotpepper wrote: 3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond? I think not - it's pretty shallow. ========================== I may have given him the wrong information. I'm not familiar with the metric system. Our 800+ pond is about 26 to 28" at the deepest point but the koi are small, up to 12". Now I'm curious, as the berm sank on that one as well. It may even be shallower now. :-( That's our next project - fixing the berm on that pond. The bigger pond came out beautiful. -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
Hmmm...I'm getting more hooked by the minute :-) Having read your
replies I am starting to thing about draining the pond and giving it a once over...I have a free weekend this week so why not. I would be good to know whats under there, the water is pretty clear now and there appear to be some nicstuff under there. It would be good to sort it out and arrange everything as I want. Any advice before I get stuck in? I would like to keep Koi but by the sounds of it I need a bigger pond. By gardern which is 100' X 25' is big by London standards by probaby not big enough to allow for a pond big enough for Koi + my better hald wants a new kitchen...priorities |
hotpepper wrote:
Hmmm...I'm getting more hooked by the minute :-) Having read your replies I am starting to thing about draining the pond and giving it a once over...I have a free weekend this week so why not. I would be good to know whats under there, the water is pretty clear now and there appear to be some nicstuff under there. It would be good to sort it out and arrange everything as I want. Any advice before I get stuck in? I would like to keep Koi but by the sounds of it I need a bigger pond. By gardern which is 100' X 25' is big by London standards by probaby not big enough to allow for a pond big enough for Koi + my better hald wants a new kitchen...priorities It's not a _lot_ too small, but koi get pretty big. But really, I felt that you could keep them in that width & length, but they really like to be able to go deeper. In a 2' (for the metrically challenged) deep pond (at least you don't have the freezing issue) they may always be a bit skittish. -- derek |
"hotpepper" wrote in message ups.com... Hmmm...I'm getting more hooked by the minute :-) Having read your replies I am starting to thing about draining the pond and giving it a once over... $$ When we do ours we use a shop vac to get that last few drops of scuzz from the bottom, hose (but not scrub) the sides and suck that out. Then we refill it and turn the pumps on to start removing the chlorine by agitation. As that's happening we return the plants - only the BEST ones. The next morning I return the fish to the pond. That's how we usually do it. I wish you could see how beautiful the 2000 gallon pond came out. We redid the plant shelves and just gave it a complete work-over. I have a free weekend this week so why not. I would be good to know whats under there, the water is pretty clear now and there appear to be some nicstuff under there. It would be good to sort it out and arrange everything as I want. $$ Exactly. Those dime store Kiddy pools are excellent to hold the fish while you're doing that. Keep their water aerated and check for ammonia - keep their plants with them to minimize stress and for the nitrifying bacteria all over them. Any advice before I get stuck in? Fill the kiddy pools with about 3/4s water from your pond and 1/4 or so fresh water and have at it! :-) I would like to keep Koi but by the sounds of it I need a bigger pond. $$ Actually you do. And koi can be hard on plants. By gardern which is 100' X 25' is big by London standards by probaby not big enough to allow for a pond big enough for Koi + my better hald wants a new kitchen...priorities $ I understand. ;-) -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED. My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm |
hotpepper wrote:
I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very recently. You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious Off-Topic spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds The rec.ponds regulars have decided to treat as an outcast. This means that no one replies to her. She also goes by Cracklin\' and she has a tendancy the nym-shift and use remailers to attack her nemesis from this group. Here is an example on her attack on rec.pond regulars: \"kathy\" wrote in message ... In article (Zod) wrote: ---- SLASH Here is a known usenet psychopath pampered and fed by rec.pond\'s most clueless. ===================== Yep! You got that right. They killed their own NG(rec.pond) by feeding and encouraging Usenet\'s worst troll who hides behind his quasi-religious book publishing company, the Watchtower Inc. Not one of them bothered to dumpster-dive Jabriol/Antonio L. Santana. He even threatened them, warned them - and they continued to dance while Rome burned..... -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm As you can see her purpose is not to talk about ponds at all. She will be nice to you at the start, then she will turn against you. You have been warned. *** Sent From/Enviado desde: http://groups.expo.st *** |
On 13 Sep 2005 10:52:05 -0700, "hotpepper" wrote:
Hmmm...I'm getting more hooked by the minute :-) Having read your replies I am starting to thing about draining the pond and giving it a once over...I have a free weekend this week so why not. I would be good to know whats under there, the water is pretty clear now and there appear to be some nicstuff under there. It would be good to sort it out and arrange everything as I want. I think you did quite well starting out. If you do decide to totally clean it, save as much as the old water as you can. When you take the sample to the store, if they say, it's great. I wouldn't clean it. Especially with it clearing so you can see the bottom. Only thing I would recommend is pick up your own test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, pH, KH & a Thermometer. As far as the fish, sounds to me like you've got great filtration to handle the load. Though I wouldn't add koi unless you plan to start digging a bigger pond real soon. Feed the goldfish sparingly, that will hold down the population. I would like to keep Koi but by the sounds of it I need a bigger pond. By gardern which is 100' X 25' is big by London standards by probaby not big enough to allow for a pond big enough for Koi + my better hald wants a new kitchen...priorities. Let's see, who needs lawn or terrestrial plants? Koi pond 50 X 20 works for me. ;) ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: www.jjspond.us ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
look a carol sovk puppet
Ronn wrote: "pondmeister" wrote in message o.st... You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious Off-Topic spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds /FLUSH! Your hysterical semi~literate message is completely off topic, inflammatory, self serving, petty, a waste of bandwidth and you're trolling rec.ponds. You're adding to the problem you claimed you wanted to end. |
On 13 Sep 2005 18:22:47 -0700, "Zod" wrote:
===look a carol sovk puppet ===Ronn wrote: === "pondmeister" wrote in message === o.st... === === You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious === Off-Topic === spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds === === /FLUSH! === === Your hysterical semi~literate message is completely off topic, === inflammatory, self serving, petty, a waste of bandwidth and === you're trolling rec.ponds. You're adding to the problem you === claimed you wanted to end. ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! "The original frugal ponder" ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o |
You noticed that too huh Zod.........Ron (n) a Carol sock
puppet.......Lets have a drink to Pondmeisters view o9f Reel Mckoi aka Carol...............as he sort of hits it right on the head...... On 13 Sep 2005 18:22:47 -0700, "Zod" wrote: ===look a carol sovk puppet ===Ronn wrote: === "pondmeister" wrote in message === o.st... === === You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious === Off-Topic === spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds === === /FLUSH! === === Your hysterical semi~literate message is completely off topic, === inflammatory, self serving, petty, a waste of bandwidth and === you're trolling rec.ponds. You're adding to the problem you === claimed you wanted to end. ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! "The original frugal ponder" ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o |
In us tems By Pond is about 800 Gals and 9' X 6' if that helps. But
from what you guys have been saying + what I've read I think I will shy away from Koi until I know what I'm doing and by the sounds of it got a bigger pond. I probably have enough space to double the size of the one I have already. Maybe in a couple of years. |
Nice pond, looks really good and close to the house. Ours is at the
opposite end of the garden in a quiet shady spot which is nice but you cant see/year from the house. Now that I'm getting into it a bit more I may decide to build a small water feature nearer the house. Thanks for the advice BTW I'm still in two minds whether to drain or not. My logic at the moment is this... 1 - The fish seem happy enough 2 - The are Frogs and newts in the Pond 3 - the Water is very clear 4 - the fish have been stressed enough for now 5 - Its hard work :-) so...may be leave it till next year when I know a bit more about what I'm doing But...on the other hand it would be nice to know whats down there in detail and a good once over at the start may be good in the long run. I am assumeing that after a few weeks after cleaning it would go dark and silty at the bottom anyway or am I wrong here? thanks |
Congratulations on getting hooked. Have you posted any pics of your
pond? (Our pondsite below shows ours.) Your manual cleaning is a good move. The fish and plants will continue adding muck, and you will come to guage when the pond is so full want to clean it. You have a pond full of seasoned water. We would just enjoy it and learn about the pond's growth cycle this year. If you could work out a bottom drain for the pond and a good veggie filter with your water feature, you could avoid most of the cleaning by having a good sized drain in the bottom of the veggie filter. We would be glad to comment more on that. Our berm ponds get the muck and they and the pond are crystal clear (tho' tea colored). We have not changed out our water in the seven or so years we have had the pond. Phyllis and I spent a number of years in Cambridge studying. Where do you live in London? Jim hotpepper wrote: I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very recently. Its about 3000 ltrs (650 gals) 2m X 3m X 0.7m and I think its many years old, I think its made of concrete and has some very attractive stonework around and in the pond, the sides look like stone bricks. Someone obviously spent a lot of time on it so I thought I should do something with it. It's in a very shady spot but does get some direct sunshine in the middle of the afternoon. It was not filtered and everything was overgrown, it basically looked like a swap. I started by clearing all the overgrown vegetation and have left a decent sized patch of Lilly's in the middle with some oxygenators and reeds. Then (I didn't now about pond vacs at this point) dredged the bottom with my bare hands then a coarse net, then a fine net. So now I have a thin layer of sludge at the bottom. I then added a good quality filtration system with a small water fall, UV clarifier, an air ball and some lighting. I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits, 3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in. Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they are ok. The water was very murky but after a few days it has started to clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no longer green. My questions a 1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning? 2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the pond and does this need to be done every year? 3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond? 4 - Is there anything else I should do? 5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond? 5 - Where have the Tench gone? Sorry for the long story but I didn't want to leave anything out but needless to say but I am now totally hooked!!! Thanks in advance for you help. |
Thanks for you comments. I was starting to get a bit put off by the
amount of nonsense about the trolling issue. Hope it doesnt spoil the group. I started with the manual cleaning as I did'nt really know what I was doing and was'nt about to go out spending lots of time and money on the pond. Two weeks later I have done both! The temptation know is to drain and clean just to see whats down there but my gut feel is to just leave it alone. There was a huge amount of stuff down there, about a foot deep, mainly stuff from a large conifor near the pond. However, it did'nt smell and was easy to scoop out with hands and then net. I thought it would be too much work to drain but know I've spent nearly a week doing it by hand I suspect it would have been better to drain etc. I think at some point I will drain it when I know more about it, I will start to keep an eye on the water quality and if it get bad then do something then. It will allow me to secure the hosing for the pump and the electric cables for the lights and pump too and arrange the lighting better. Not sure what a bottom or a verggie filter is, My filter has a biologia media section in the base - is this the same thing? I will post some pitures once I get it sorted, it looks a bit dull and boaring at the moment :-( Its a small world, although I live in the south of London I actually work in Cambridge! It's a lovley City but I dont get to see much of it as I spend my spare time in London - mostly these days on my pond :-) BTW - your pond looks fantastic. I would love to have something like that but alas space does not permit - gardens in London are postage stamp sized compared to what you get in other parts of the world. Vak |
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:34:35 -0500, Phyllis and Jim Hurley
wrote: We have not changed out our water in the seven or so years we have had the pond. Not even 10% water changes? ~ jan hotpepper see: http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange |
Thanks Jan - good website
|
Forgot to say - got back from work today after being away for a few
days and hence not been messing with the pond. The water is crystal clear all the way to the bottom. I can see all the fish which has put me at ease, the Orfe are darting around like mad and the tench are slowly moving around the bottom - one even came to the top to eat! I can now see the shape and layout of the pond so probably wont drain and clean it. I switch of the pump while cleaning it and for some reason sediment started to stir up, is this normal? Why does this happen? |
"hotpepper" wrote in message ups.com... Forgot to say - got back from work today after being away for a few days and hence not been messing with the pond. The water is crystal clear all the way to the bottom. I can see all the fish which has put me at ease, the Orfe are darting around like mad and the tench are slowly moving around the bottom - one even came to the top to eat! I can now see the shape and layout of the pond so probably wont drain and clean it. I switch of the pump while cleaning it and for some reason sediment started to stir up, is this normal? Why does this happen? ================================== When you turn your pump back on it's normal for the water flow to stir up the sediments - if that's what you were asking. -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
On 14 Sep 2005 10:36:49 -0700, "hotpepper" wrote:
I switch of the pump while cleaning it and for some reason sediment started to stir up, is this normal? Why does this happen? Depends on where the pump is located at. Still water, solids settle, even in very clear water there will be some. When you start up the pump, the water moves and puts the solids back into the water column again. Once they spread out it appears once again to be clear. ;o) ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: www.jjspond.us ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Our toilet valve refills as we get evaporation. We drain the barrels
and the berm ponds annually to dump the muck form the pond. That does actually mean turning over 1000 of 4000 gakllons. That is an annual 25% change over...staged. We have monitored the water chemistry and it does not seem affected by the low change rate. My observation is that the pond does a good bit of topping up, which should be concentrating the minerals. Jim ~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:34:35 -0500, Phyllis and Jim Hurley wrote: We have not changed out our water in the seven or so years we have had the pond. Not even 10% water changes? ~ jan hotpepper see: http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange |
Our toilet valve refills as we get evaporation. We drain the barrels
and the berm ponds annually to dump the muck form the pond. That does actually mean turning over 1000 of 4000 gakllons. That is an annual 25% change over...staged. We have monitored the water chemistry and it does not seem affected by the low change rate. My observation is that the pond does a good bit of topping up, which should be concentrating the minerals. Jim Is this a water garden w/koi? Your last sentence confuses me, as the reason it is recommended 10%/week is to keep heavy minerals, pheromones and other pollutants (that most hobbyists can't test for) diluted and to add necessary minerals, vital for the fish. If a koi only pond, they usually need to do them for the nitrate build up also.... something we rarely have to worry about in a water garden plus koi. ~ jan |
Hi Jan,
Our pond system has 3K gallons in the main pond and 1K gallons in the berm ponds and barrels. The pond has about 10 koi, full sized, and about the same number of goldfish. The berm plants do a great job of handling the muck...growth like crazy and clear water. We have not done any regular water changes. The toilet valve does replace the evaporation on a regular basis...MS is very hot. The koi don't seem to have suffetred any particular problems from the lack of changes. They have grown like weeds and are 20 to 28". The ratio of koi per gallon is pretty good. That may help. Jim ~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: Our toilet valve refills as we get evaporation. We drain the barrels and the berm ponds annually to dump the muck form the pond. That does actually mean turning over 1000 of 4000 gakllons. That is an annual 25% change over...staged. We have monitored the water chemistry and it does not seem affected by the low change rate. My observation is that the pond does a good bit of topping up, which should be concentrating the minerals. Jim Is this a water garden w/koi? Your last sentence confuses me, as the reason it is recommended 10%/week is to keep heavy minerals, pheromones and other pollutants (that most hobbyists can't test for) diluted and to add necessary minerals, vital for the fish. If a koi only pond, they usually need to do them for the nitrate build up also.... something we rarely have to worry about in a water garden plus koi. ~ jan |
Our pond system has 3K gallons in the main pond and 1K gallons in the
berm ponds and barrels. The pond has about 10 koi, full sized, and about the same number of goldfish. The berm plants do a great job of handling the muck...growth like crazy and clear water. We have not done any regular water changes. The toilet valve does replace the evaporation on a regular basis...MS is very hot. The koi don't seem to have suffetred any particular problems from the lack of changes. They have grown like weeds and are 20 to 28". The ratio of koi per gallon is pretty good. That may help. Jim Now bear with me, I'm not trying to be a "I know better than thou" here. It is just I'm trying to prevent my mistakes passing on to another. I, too, wasn't real good about doing my water changes as the experts suggest. It finally bit me in the butt, and that is my concern/worry for you. Some of those experts would consider your situation on the high end of the stocking rate. Fish are bigger, pond stays the same, all the more reason to follow their advice.... or, since I'm suggesting it "go not where I have been". ;o) ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ |
hotpepper wrote:
I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very recently. Its about 3000 ltrs (650 gals) 2m X 3m X 0.7m and I think its many years old, I think its made of concrete and has some very attractive stonework around and in the pond, the sides look like stone bricks. Someone obviously spent a lot of time on it so I thought I should do something with it. It's in a very shady spot but does get some direct sunshine in the middle of the afternoon. It was not filtered and everything was overgrown, it basically looked like a swap. I started by clearing all the overgrown vegetation and have left a decent sized patch of Lilly's in the middle with some oxygenators and reeds. Then (I didn't now about pond vacs at this point) dredged the bottom with my bare hands then a coarse net, then a fine net. So now I have a thin layer of sludge at the bottom. I then added a good quality filtration system with a small water fall, UV clarifier, an air ball and some lighting. I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits, 3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in. Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they are ok. The water was very murky but after a few days it has started to clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no longer green. My questions a 1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning? 2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the pond and does this need to be done every year? 3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond? 4 - Is there anything else I should do? 5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond? 5 - Where have the Tench gone? Sorry for the long story but I didn't want to leave anything out but needless to say but I am now totally hooked!!! Thanks in advance for you help. You have got some pretty good advice from this group . All I can add is ..... stick with it !!!! To sit by a pond with a loved one and a bottle of wine as evening falls is a pleasure beyond price. John |
hotpepper wrote:
Forgot to say - got back from work today after being away for a few days and hence not been messing with the pond. The water is crystal clear all the way to the bottom. I can see all the fish which has put me at ease, the Orfe are darting around like mad and the tench are slowly moving around the bottom - one even came to the top to eat! I can now see the shape and layout of the pond so probably wont drain and clean it. I switch of the pump while cleaning it and for some reason sediment started to stir up, is this normal? Why does this happen? I'd guess your pump is moving water to some point above the water level of the pond. When you switch it off, all the water in the pipe runs back down into the pond, through the intake - which one assumes is near the bottom of the pond - and stirs up the remaining sediment. If there's any chance at all that the pipe could spring a leak that would cause water to leave the pond, you should try to raise that intake up a few inches, so that a catastrophe still leaves enough water in the pond for your fish to survive! -- derek |
Your Mother weres combat boots.
Kathy wrote: These off topic individuals have no intention of ending their attacks to allow sanity to return to rec.ponds. Others will soon see this and killfile them all into oblivion. In article er (Ronn) wrote: "Ronn" wrote in message ... "pondmeister" wrote in message xpo.st... You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious Off-Topic spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds /FLUSH! Your hysterical semi~literate message is completely off topic, inflammatory, self serving, petty, a waste of bandwidth and you're trolling rec.ponds. You're adding to the problem you claimed you wanted to end. |
Phyllis and Jim Hurley wrote:
Congratulations on getting hooked. Have you posted any pics of your pond? (Our pondsite below shows ours.) What is this, I show you mine, you show me yours? |
Kathy,
I appreciate your concern and am certainly not offended by it. I would love to hear how your ignoring the rules came back to hurt you. I would far ratehr learn from someone ELSE's mistakes than make them myself! I have thought about the issue of water change, but have not begun any regular steps. I am well satisfied they do not need 10% per week (read 400 gal = drain one berm pond per week)as we have gone years without it, but realize that there will be some concentrating of non-evaporating stuff in the water. I am confident I will never do a regular 10% change. I should probably do the dilution rate math to see how a regular 10% change would work out over time, i.e. take account of the increase in concentration by addition of water and the dilution by draining the concentrated water and adding fresh water. As I remarked, we do drain all the berm ponds annually to remove muck. That is one 25% change per year. Beyond that we have additions and the occasional pump-stop-drains-150-gal-from-the-barrels events. I am open to the thought of draining a berm pond per week. I would have to make sure it did not have fish I want in it! Probably, I would develop a collar/filter to put over the drain to retain a couple of inches of water after draining and to keep the fish from going down. I think it more likely that I would do several 25% changes. The replacement rate from the toilet filter is slow enough that the chlorine is no problem when we remove a substantial amount of water. I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per fish. If I applied the 1000-for-the-1st-and-100-per-additional-koi formula, we have 333 gal per additional koi. If I count goldies as 1/2 a koi, I might have 14 koi-equivalents in the 3000 gal. That is still well over 200 gal per additional koi. The water circulates down falls and streams at a nominal 2000 gal/hr rate (tho my measurements look more like 1500 gal/hr). The aeration seems fine, even excessive. I was holding the view that our basic understocking helps with water quality. Could you point me to sites that will help me see at what point the growing mineral concentration and not replacing water is a major threat? Thanks Jim ~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: Our pond system has 3K gallons in the main pond and 1K gallons in the berm ponds and barrels. The pond has about 10 koi, full sized, and about the same number of goldfish. The berm plants do a great job of handling the muck...growth like crazy and clear water. We have not done any regular water changes. The toilet valve does replace the evaporation on a regular basis...MS is very hot. The koi don't seem to have suffetred any particular problems from the lack of changes. They have grown like weeds and are 20 to 28". The ratio of koi per gallon is pretty good. That may help. Jim Now bear with me, I'm not trying to be a "I know better than thou" here. It is just I'm trying to prevent my mistakes passing on to another. I, too, wasn't real good about doing my water changes as the experts suggest. It finally bit me in the butt, and that is my concern/worry for you. Some of those experts would consider your situation on the high end of the stocking rate. Fish are bigger, pond stays the same, all the more reason to follow their advice.... or, since I'm suggesting it "go not where I have been". ;o) ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ |
"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message ... I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per fish. ======================== We have 15 koi in a well filtered 2000 gallon Pond and they're thriving. -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED. My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm |
Cracklin' wrote:
"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message ... I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per fish. ======================== We have 15 koi in a well filtered 2000 gallon Pond and they're thriving. Doesn't seem too much to me. 15 koi in 2000 gallons shouldn't even be pushing it. -- derek |
"Derek Broughton" wrote in message ... Cracklin' wrote: "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message ... I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per fish. ======================== We have 15 koi in a well filtered 2000 gallon Pond and they're thriving. Doesn't seem too much to me. 15 koi in 2000 gallons shouldn't even be pushing it. -- derek ============================= I do partial water changes regularly and I'm sure the plantfilter-settling tank with the small aeration tower also helps keep the water in excellent condition. This pond, like the other pond and pools, is loaded with a variety of thriving plants along 3 sides. The only additive is the Koi-Zyme a few times over the spring and summer. The plants get the Potassium and a few handfuls of kitty litter now and then. Only the water lilies get the Job's Rose Spikes. This summer I only added them in the spring to see how long they would last. Unlike the expensive fertilizer Tabs made for pond plants, these Jobe's sticks still have the lilies blooming like crazy and they're still a dark green. :-) I love 'em! -- McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995... My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
Please excuse my top posting, however due to the material, It not
important. However it is anoynous posts like theses that further the decay of rec.ponds. This reply was done by Carol. There is no need to employ any sort of tracking skill or delve into techno geekology. Nobody in Rec.ponds hates Jabriol in this fashion. We know it is Carol, because she follows-up imediately on her own forged posts. Any newsreader will show that the revis post breaks right off of the Reel Mckoi forged post. This demostrate retaliation. We all know Carol can not keep her mouth shut. If she is attacked she has the need to retaliate; it is an established well proven fact. The attack post is directed to Jabriol. It accuse Jabriol of having sex with his daughter. It then post Jabriol\'s home address and telephone number. It claims Jabriol has an issue with sex. Does anyone care about this on rec.ponds? De we know of any other ponder who would go this length? The normal response of a ponder is just to dump the offender into the kill file and move on. Not Carol. She has the pyschological need to attack the father that raped her projecting it toward Jabriol. Believe me, today it is Jabriol. What is to say Carol would not commit the same harrasment with any of you ponders? I fear that this pattern will occur with any new or interested person. Since we all know this is not going to stop I would suggest moving to the new group. Anyone who think this is just in passing look at the archives. It will be a year, and Carol says she been fighting with Jabriol for 10. When Carol attack you, You will recall my warnings. In fact she already is attacking all of you. There is a post in the JW group calling us idiots and drunken sailors. Can you consider her your friend? Revis wrote: In article Reel Mckoi NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.235.85.140/Qwest: Jersey City NJ HUB wrote: Phyllis and Jim Hurley wrote: Congratulations on getting hooked. Have you posted any pics of your pond? (Our pondsite below shows ours.) What is this, I show you mine, you show me yours? This comment from Antonio L. Sanata of 3072 Constitution Road Camden N.J. (856) 962-9003 who believes in having incestious sex with his daughter Revis. Sex is always on Antonio\'s mind. *** Sent From/Enviado desde: http://groups.expo.st *** |
Kathy,
Not sure how Kathy (poor thing (K30/kathy) just can't stay out of here even when she has totally exited) got caught up in this, but I (~jan) was the one posted about water changes. I am confident I will never do a regular 10% change. Well than, I probably can't change your mind. I am interested that you see us as overstocked. Not overstocked, but more like at critical mass. Where everything is perfect, but might not take much to upset the apple cart. Could you point me to sites that will help me see at what point the growing mineral concentration and not replacing water is a major threat? The one I sent hotpepper to: http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange Even though it is probably futile for me to continue, perhaps someone else will take heed from my story. In my case, I was doing water changes of 25%/month, was over critical mass, and didn't sell off or give away enough koi fast enough. The only thing that was showing on my water tests was very low ammonia. So I had overcrowding and that barely detectable ammonia as the stressors. Ended up dropping my koi numbers by half quick, but I sure got hands on learning experience on treating for ulcers. I'm now a believer in those 10%/week water changes, and had the guys put in an attachment to make it easier for me to do them. Spike Cover (head coordinator of the KHA program) did an article on, what is better? Drain down 10% and refill, or remove from one end while filling at the other (overflow)? Turned out they both worked equally well for reducing "stuff" in the water column, so that is the one I use now. I'm also a believer in Koizyme. Unfortunately, because my numbers were drastically reduced they spawned, so I'm back to serious reducing again come next spring.s ~ jan (Do you know where your water quality is?) |
Oops...wrong person. Sorry Kathy (gone) and Jan.
I will read the article you posted tomorrow. Jim ~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: Kathy, Not sure how Kathy (poor thing (K30/kathy) just can't stay out of here even when she has totally exited) got caught up in this, but I (~jan) was the one posted about water changes. I am confident I will never do a regular 10% change. Well than, I probably can't change your mind. I am interested that you see us as overstocked. Not overstocked, but more like at critical mass. Where everything is perfect, but might not take much to upset the apple cart. Could you point me to sites that will help me see at what point the growing mineral concentration and not replacing water is a major threat? The one I sent hotpepper to: http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange Even though it is probably futile for me to continue, perhaps someone else will take heed from my story. In my case, I was doing water changes of 25%/month, was over critical mass, and didn't sell off or give away enough koi fast enough. The only thing that was showing on my water tests was very low ammonia. So I had overcrowding and that barely detectable ammonia as the stressors. Ended up dropping my koi numbers by half quick, but I sure got hands on learning experience on treating for ulcers. I'm now a believer in those 10%/week water changes, and had the guys put in an attachment to make it easier for me to do them. Spike Cover (head coordinator of the KHA program) did an article on, what is better? Drain down 10% and refill, or remove from one end while filling at the other (overflow)? Turned out they both worked equally well for reducing "stuff" in the water column, so that is the one I use now. I'm also a believer in Koizyme. Unfortunately, because my numbers were drastically reduced they spawned, so I'm back to serious reducing again come next spring.s ~ jan (Do you know where your water quality is?) |
**** off and learn English Jabbers
"PondMeister" wrote in message o.st... Please excuse my top posting, however due to the material, It not important. However it is anoynous posts like theses that further the decay of rec.ponds. This reply was done by Carol. There is no need to employ any sort of tracking skill or delve into techno geekology. Nobody in Rec.ponds hates Jabriol in this fashion. We know it is Carol, because she follows-up imediately on her own forged posts. Any newsreader will show that the revis post breaks right off of the Reel Mckoi forged post. This demostrate retaliation. We all know Carol can not keep her mouth shut. If she is attacked she has the need to retaliate; it is an established well proven fact. The attack post is directed to Jabriol. It accuse Jabriol of having sex with his daughter. It then post Jabriol\'s home address and telephone number. It claims Jabriol has an issue with sex. Does anyone care about this on rec.ponds? De we know of any other ponder who would go this length? The normal response of a ponder is just to dump the offender into the kill file and move on. Not Carol. She has the pyschological need to attack the father that raped her projecting it toward Jabriol. Believe me, today it is Jabriol. What is to say Carol would not commit the same harrasment with any of you ponders? I fear that this pattern will occur with any new or interested person. Since we all know this is not going to stop I would suggest moving to the new group. Anyone who think this is just in passing look at the archives. It will be a year, and Carol says she been fighting with Jabriol for 10. When Carol attack you, You will recall my warnings. In fact she already is attacking all of you. There is a post in the JW group calling us idiots and drunken sailors. Can you consider her your friend? Revis wrote: In article Reel Mckoi NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.235.85.140/Qwest: Jersey City NJ HUB wrote: Phyllis and Jim Hurley wrote: Congratulations on getting hooked. Have you posted any pics of your pond? (Our pondsite below shows ours.) What is this, I show you mine, you show me yours? This comment from Antonio L. Sanata of 3072 Constitution Road Camden N.J. (856) 962-9003 who believes in having incestious sex with his daughter Revis. Sex is always on Antonio\'s mind. *** Sent From/Enviado desde: http://groups.expo.st *** |
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