I recently finished my first (only) koi pond. I did it all on my own,
with input primarily from books. I feel it is about a 450 gallon setup
(9'X4'X2'deep (x7.5) minus shelves) It has a Beckett 1600 pump for the
fall, as well as a Beckett BF700 Biofilter (it outputs up at the fall as
well). The Biofilter is running 24/7 and the Big pump runs 8A to 10P.

It is currently stocked with half a dozen gold fish and 2 koi. One 5"
gold butterfly and a 15" something or other. Both were a score (didn't
pay any were near what they were worth - read under $150).


http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com/koi.html

These are some pictures of the site.

I started getting some green algae, and the local garden store (Los
Angeles area) recommended putting in a barley bale (pellets in a mesh
bag). Well, now my water is a lovely tea color. I have decided to
install a 15 watt Aqua UV light attached to the 24 hour (beckett 350
btw) pump and remove the barley..

So, a few questions

What would you change / add in this setup?

Do I need to completely drain the pond and refill or will the barley tea
color disappear in a while.

How often do you have to do a water change? Partial and full?

Anyone recommend some good books on this whole process that are steeped
in advice. One koi book I looked at had tons of scientific data, but
not much practical and easy to read.

Anyway, I am sure it is the start of a number of questions, thanks to
all in advance.

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

Good news/bad news:

Good news: nice little pond!
Bad news: you're overstocked . . . you can keep the goldfish, but you should
get rid of the koi. Current opinion on koi is that you should have 1000 for
the first koi, and 100 gals. for each additional koi. Pushing it, you need
100 gals. for each koi plus EXCELLENT filtration to handle the waste
problem. But you don't want to hear that, I know. Sorry. So let's see what
can be done to acommodate the situation:

The green (pea soup) algae is common to all new ponds. Given enough time and
patience (neither of which *most* ponders are blessed with), it would have
gone away by itself. However, the UV will take care of the pea soup.
Barley straw is used for string algae, which you probably don't have (yet!).
And yes, it disintegrates (leaving messy suspended particulate matter) and
it stains the water into a barley tea color.

I would not change out all the water: your pond is just getting started and
doesn't need the added stress. However, partial water changes - weekly - are
needed, especially with your fish load. By partial, I mean 10-15%, which is
replaced with fresh water (don't forget to dechlor the added water!).
Topping off water evaporation or using rainwater overflow does NOT count and
could be detrimental. You need to actually remove water and replace it.
During the process of evaporation, all the chemicals (natural and added,
including from the fish) become concentrated; eventually, just adding more
water will leave you with a significant level of toxic material in the pond.
That's why it HAS to be exchanged. There are people here that will argue
that premise, but THINK about it. Also, with your fish load, you need the
best chance possible for them. Goldfish and Koi are heavy waste excreters -
it has to be removed. And as they grow, it becomes worse (sigh).

Now, something you *didn't* ask about: testing your water. I hate to keep
harping on this - but I know you're not going to find homes for your fish (I
didn't either after I had them!) - so you have to keep a very good eye on
your water chemistry, especially with a new pond. Until your filter gets up
to speed, which can take 6-8 weeks to develop the bio-bugs, you're going to
need to help neutralize the ammonia that the fish will produce. I suggest
you get a bottle of Amquel (a water conditioner that neutralizes chlorine,
chloramine and ammonia; you'll need it for your water changes, anyway): you
can overdose it many times over with no ill effect on the fish, but it will
bind the ammonia, rendering it harmless to the fish. To test for ammonia,
however, you will need a 2 part ammonia test kit (salicylate versus
nessler). Or, make it easy on yourself and find an Ammonia Alert card (made
by Seachem): it will tell you at a glance if you need to neutralize ammonia,
so you can pour a couple of glunks of Amquel in the pond (note: the card
will ready ammonia almost immediately, but it takes it several hours to go
back to neutral, so don't panic immediately). The first byproduct of ammonia
is nitrIte, which can be deadly (causes brown blood disease, making it
impossible for the fish to absorb oxygen), so you need a test kit for that,
too. *No amount of ammonia or nitrIte is acceptable*. The help the fish
through nitrIte, you need to add non-iodized salt to the pond. Or, if you
can get your hands on it, a Tbs. of Koi Clay (calcium bentonite) will absorb
the nitrIte (the salt just helps the fish cope with it). And your pH:
anything between 7.5 and 9 is OK, but it should be stable, with as little
fluctuation between AM readings and PM readings as possible. The scale for
pH is kinda like your Richter scale: each point is 10 times the amount of
the previous point, so the fluctuation between 8 and 9 is 1000! If you have
the fluctuation, let us know and we can work on that, too. But at this
point, you will need test kits for ammonia, nitrIte (not nitrAte, we'll
worry about that later!) and pH (probably the high end, but something that
will test to at least 9).

Now that you're thoroughly confused, good luck! There are lots of folks on
this board that will help!

Lee


"Carl Beyer" wrote in message
...
I recently finished my first (only) koi pond. I did it all on my own,
with input primarily from books. I feel it is about a 450 gallon setup
(9'X4'X2'deep (x7.5) minus shelves) It has a Beckett 1600 pump for the
fall, as well as a Beckett BF700 Biofilter (it outputs up at the fall as
well). The Biofilter is running 24/7 and the Big pump runs 8A to 10P.

It is currently stocked with half a dozen gold fish and 2 koi. One 5"
gold butterfly and a 15" something or other. Both were a score (didn't
pay any were near what they were worth - read under $150).


http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com/koi.html

These are some pictures of the site.

I started getting some green algae, and the local garden store (Los
Angeles area) recommended putting in a barley bale (pellets in a mesh
bag). Well, now my water is a lovely tea color. I have decided to
install a 15 watt Aqua UV light attached to the 24 hour (beckett 350
btw) pump and remove the barley..

So, a few questions

What would you change / add in this setup?

Do I need to completely drain the pond and refill or will the barley tea
color disappear in a while.

How often do you have to do a water change? Partial and full?

Anyone recommend some good books on this whole process that are steeped
in advice. One koi book I looked at had tons of scientific data, but
not much practical and easy to read.

Anyway, I am sure it is the start of a number of questions, thanks to
all in advance.

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

In article ,
"Lee Brouillet" wrote:

Good news/bad news:

Good news: nice little pond!
Bad news: you're overstocked . . . you can keep the goldfish, but you should
get rid of the koi. Current opinion on koi is that you should have 1000 for
the first koi, and 100 gals. for each additional koi. Pushing it, you need
100 gals. for each koi plus EXCELLENT filtration to handle the waste
problem. But you don't want to hear that, I know. Sorry. So let's see what
can be done to acommodate the situation:

The green (pea soup) algae is common to all new ponds. Given enough time and
patience (neither of which *most* ponders are blessed with), it would have
gone away by itself. However, the UV will take care of the pea soup.
Barley straw is used for string algae, which you probably don't have (yet!).
And yes, it disintegrates (leaving messy suspended particulate matter) and
it stains the water into a barley tea color.

I would not change out all the water: your pond is just getting started and
doesn't need the added stress. However, partial water changes - weekly - are
needed, especially with your fish load. By partial, I mean 10-15%, which is
replaced with fresh water (don't forget to dechlor the added water!).
Topping off water evaporation or using rainwater overflow does NOT count and
could be detrimental. You need to actually remove water and replace it.
During the process of evaporation, all the chemicals (natural and added,
including from the fish) become concentrated; eventually, just adding more
water will leave you with a significant level of toxic material in the pond.
That's why it HAS to be exchanged. There are people here that will argue
that premise, but THINK about it. Also, with your fish load, you need the
best chance possible for them. Goldfish and Koi are heavy waste excreters -
it has to be removed. And as they grow, it becomes worse (sigh).

Now, something you *didn't* ask about: testing your water. I hate to keep
harping on this - but I know you're not going to find homes for your fish (I
didn't either after I had them!) - so you have to keep a very good eye on
your water chemistry, especially with a new pond. Until your filter gets up
to speed, which can take 6-8 weeks to develop the bio-bugs, you're going to
need to help neutralize the ammonia that the fish will produce. I suggest
you get a bottle of Amquel (a water conditioner that neutralizes chlorine,
chloramine and ammonia; you'll need it for your water changes, anyway): you
can overdose it many times over with no ill effect on the fish, but it will
bind the ammonia, rendering it harmless to the fish. To test for ammonia,
however, you will need a 2 part ammonia test kit (salicylate versus
nessler). Or, make it easy on yourself and find an Ammonia Alert card (made
by Seachem): it will tell you at a glance if you need to neutralize ammonia,
so you can pour a couple of glunks of Amquel in the pond (note: the card
will ready ammonia almost immediately, but it takes it several hours to go
back to neutral, so don't panic immediately). The first byproduct of ammonia
is nitrIte, which can be deadly (causes brown blood disease, making it
impossible for the fish to absorb oxygen), so you need a test kit for that,
too. *No amount of ammonia or nitrIte is acceptable*. The help the fish
through nitrIte, you need to add non-iodized salt to the pond. Or, if you
can get your hands on it, a Tbs. of Koi Clay (calcium bentonite) will absorb
the nitrIte (the salt just helps the fish cope with it). And your pH:
anything between 7.5 and 9 is OK, but it should be stable, with as little
fluctuation between AM readings and PM readings as possible. The scale for
pH is kinda like your Richter scale: each point is 10 times the amount of
the previous point, so the fluctuation between 8 and 9 is 1000! If you have
the fluctuation, let us know and we can work on that, too. But at this
point, you will need test kits for ammonia, nitrIte (not nitrAte, we'll
worry about that later!) and pH (probably the high end, but something that
will test to at least 9).

Now that you're thoroughly confused, good luck! There are lots of folks on
this board that will help!

Lee


Not confused, just encourage. Thanks for the great advice. I have a
small (12gal) reef tank in the house, so some of this makes sense... I
will get on testing shortly.

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

Have fun, and let us know when you have other questions.

Lee

"Carl Beyer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lee Brouillet" wrote:

Good news/bad news:

Good news: nice little pond!
Bad news: you're overstocked . . . you can keep the goldfish, but you
should
get rid of the koi. Current opinion on koi is that you should have 1000
for
the first koi, and 100 gals. for each additional koi. Pushing it, you
need
100 gals. for each koi plus EXCELLENT filtration to handle the waste
problem. But you don't want to hear that, I know. Sorry. So let's see
what
can be done to acommodate the situation:

The green (pea soup) algae is common to all new ponds. Given enough time
and
patience (neither of which *most* ponders are blessed with), it would
have
gone away by itself. However, the UV will take care of the pea soup.
Barley straw is used for string algae, which you probably don't have
(yet!).
And yes, it disintegrates (leaving messy suspended particulate matter)
and
it stains the water into a barley tea color.

I would not change out all the water: your pond is just getting started
and
doesn't need the added stress. However, partial water changes - weekly -
are
needed, especially with your fish load. By partial, I mean 10-15%, which
is
replaced with fresh water (don't forget to dechlor the added water!).
Topping off water evaporation or using rainwater overflow does NOT count
and
could be detrimental. You need to actually remove water and replace it.
During the process of evaporation, all the chemicals (natural and added,
including from the fish) become concentrated; eventually, just adding
more
water will leave you with a significant level of toxic material in the
pond.
That's why it HAS to be exchanged. There are people here that will argue
that premise, but THINK about it. Also, with your fish load, you need
the
best chance possible for them. Goldfish and Koi are heavy waste
excreters -
it has to be removed. And as they grow, it becomes worse (sigh).

Now, something you *didn't* ask about: testing your water. I hate to
keep
harping on this - but I know you're not going to find homes for your
fish (I
didn't either after I had them!) - so you have to keep a very good eye
on
your water chemistry, especially with a new pond. Until your filter gets
up
to speed, which can take 6-8 weeks to develop the bio-bugs, you're going
to
need to help neutralize the ammonia that the fish will produce. I
suggest
you get a bottle of Amquel (a water conditioner that neutralizes
chlorine,
chloramine and ammonia; you'll need it for your water changes, anyway):
you
can overdose it many times over with no ill effect on the fish, but it
will
bind the ammonia, rendering it harmless to the fish. To test for
ammonia,
however, you will need a 2 part ammonia test kit (salicylate versus
nessler). Or, make it easy on yourself and find an Ammonia Alert card
(made
by Seachem): it will tell you at a glance if you need to neutralize
ammonia,
so you can pour a couple of glunks of Amquel in the pond (note: the card
will ready ammonia almost immediately, but it takes it several hours to
go
back to neutral, so don't panic immediately). The first byproduct of
ammonia
is nitrIte, which can be deadly (causes brown blood disease, making it
impossible for the fish to absorb oxygen), so you need a test kit for
that,
too. *No amount of ammonia or nitrIte is acceptable*. The help the fish
through nitrIte, you need to add non-iodized salt to the pond. Or, if
you
can get your hands on it, a Tbs. of Koi Clay (calcium bentonite) will
absorb
the nitrIte (the salt just helps the fish cope with it). And your pH:
anything between 7.5 and 9 is OK, but it should be stable, with as
little
fluctuation between AM readings and PM readings as possible. The scale
for
pH is kinda like your Richter scale: each point is 10 times the amount
of
the previous point, so the fluctuation between 8 and 9 is 1000! If you
have
the fluctuation, let us know and we can work on that, too. But at this
point, you will need test kits for ammonia, nitrIte (not nitrAte, we'll
worry about that later!) and pH (probably the high end, but something
that
will test to at least 9).

Now that you're thoroughly confused, good luck! There are lots of folks
on
this board that will help!

Lee


Not confused, just encourage. Thanks for the great advice. I have a
small (12gal) reef tank in the house, so some of this makes sense... I
will get on testing shortly.

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

Another thing you may wish to consider: without a doubt, you don't have as
much water as you think you do. Knowing how much you "really" have is
important when it comes time to medicate or salt your pond. May I "assume"
you don't have any salt in it at the moment? When you're out buying the
other test kits, get a salt test also. The ones you have for your reef tank
won't work: the maximum a koi/goldfish pond should EVER be is 0.3, whereas
reef tanks start on the OTHER side of the decimal point! I kinda like
Aquarium Pharmaceutical tests: they're pretty easy (and accurate), but you
may have to deal with whatever you can find. Go to this site:
http://www.click2roark.com ; sign up (no cost/no spam!) and check out his
info. He has a calculator that will tell you exactly how much water you
really have. You test your water first (get the salt reading), add a KNOWN
(weighed) amount of salt, wait a day for the salt to dissolve, then test
again. Plug the figures into the calculator and it will tell you how many
gallons you really have. Be ready for a shock!

FYG, you can buy the plain ol' rock salt (in the blue bag) made by Morton
for water conditioners. It will dissolve slower than (NON-IODIZED!) table
salt, and is cheaper. When you add the salt, try to find a place to put it
where the fish can't get to it, like in your filter or something. They're
curious little buggers, and if they nose around in a pile of salt, they'll
get burned.

It's important to know how much water you really have.

Lee



"Carl Beyer" wrote in message
...

Not confused, just encourage. Thanks for the great advice. I have a
small (12gal) reef tank in the house, so some of this makes sense... I
will get on testing shortly.

Carl

--
--
http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com

Hiya Carl,

All I've got to add to Lee's excellent advice that I agree with is perhaps
this website:
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html
Explains the chemistry and green water, plus other interesting things, and
you don't have to have a chemistry degree to understand it. ;o)

Only one minor disagreement is adding salt to one's filter, bio-bugs are
also sensitive to salt burn. So unless you can add it after the bio-filter,
figure something else out. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website


On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:49:12 -0700, Carl Beyer
wrote:

I recently finished my first (only) koi pond. I did it all on my own,
with input primarily from books. I feel it is about a 450 gallon setup
(9'X4'X2'deep (x7.5) minus shelves) It has a Beckett 1600 pump for the
fall, as well as a Beckett BF700 Biofilter (it outputs up at the fall as
well). The Biofilter is running 24/7 and the Big pump runs 8A to 10P.

It is currently stocked with half a dozen gold fish and 2 koi. One 5"
gold butterfly and a 15" something or other. Both were a score (didn't
pay any were near what they were worth - read under $150).


http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com/koi.html

These are some pictures of the site.

I started getting some green algae, and the local garden store (Los
Angeles area) recommended putting in a barley bale (pellets in a mesh
bag). Well, now my water is a lovely tea color. I have decided to
install a 15 watt Aqua UV light attached to the 24 hour (beckett 350
btw) pump and remove the barley..

So, a few questions

What would you change / add in this setup?

Do I need to completely drain the pond and refill or will the barley tea
color disappear in a while.

How often do you have to do a water change? Partial and full?

Anyone recommend some good books on this whole process that are steeped
in advice. One koi book I looked at had tons of scientific data, but
not much practical and easy to read.

Anyway, I am sure it is the start of a number of questions, thanks to
all in advance.

Carl



-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----

Thanks Jan - I forgot about the bio-bugs being a little sensitive to excess
salt. I have an area in my skimmer box, post pre-filter, pre bead filter and
bio-falls. I usually just chuck the rock salt in there, where it dissolves
slowly, away from the fish. But not every one has that "luxury"!

Lee

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
Hiya Carl,

All I've got to add to Lee's excellent advice that I agree with is perhaps
this website:
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html
Explains the chemistry and green water, plus other interesting things, and
you don't have to have a chemistry degree to understand it. ;o)

Only one minor disagreement is adding salt to one's filter, bio-bugs are
also sensitive to salt burn. So unless you can add it after the
bio-filter,
figure something else out. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website


On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:49:12 -0700, Carl Beyer
wrote:

I recently finished my first (only) koi pond. I did it all on my own,
with input primarily from books. I feel it is about a 450 gallon setup
(9'X4'X2'deep (x7.5) minus shelves) It has a Beckett 1600 pump for the
fall, as well as a Beckett BF700 Biofilter (it outputs up at the fall as
well). The Biofilter is running 24/7 and the Big pump runs 8A to 10P.

It is currently stocked with half a dozen gold fish and 2 koi. One 5"
gold butterfly and a 15" something or other. Both were a score (didn't
pay any were near what they were worth - read under $150).


http://www.cobaltbluefilms.com/koi.html

These are some pictures of the site.

I started getting some green algae, and the local garden store (Los
Angeles area) recommended putting in a barley bale (pellets in a mesh
bag). Well, now my water is a lovely tea color. I have decided to
install a 15 watt Aqua UV light attached to the 24 hour (beckett 350
btw) pump and remove the barley..

So, a few questions

What would you change / add in this setup?

Do I need to completely drain the pond and refill or will the barley tea
color disappear in a while.

How often do you have to do a water change? Partial and full?

Anyone recommend some good books on this whole process that are steeped
in advice. One koi book I looked at had tons of scientific data, but
not much practical and easy to read.

Anyway, I am sure it is the start of a number of questions, thanks to
all in advance.

Carl



-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News
==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers
=-----