Thanks to all of you for sharing your valuable insight. I feel more confident
than ever.

BTW, my pond is 2200 gallons, not 220 as I mistyped. In fact, it is 2200 gal
plus a 50' long stream which includes 5 smaller pools. When I build the system
I over designed the filtration in anticipation of my koi growing (I have 9 that
range from 4" to 12"). I also have UV, a skimmer, bottom drain, and lots of
plants. I test my water every other week and it is always near perfect except
for salt levels that change with my bi-weekly partial water changes. The water
is always crystal clear.

I'm on day 2 of my PP treatment. Fingers still crossed!

Thanks again, group,
Gary

How many koi do you have in 220 gal.????????

Sorry, I meant 2200 gallons. I've got to start proofreading my posts!

~ Gary

LOL! Oh My my my .... okay I guess if his filtration is
top notch, etc etc ....

But, BV ... this just shoots in the bu**
our (rec.ponds) most recent theory that we need 1,000
gallons of water for the first Koi and 100 gallons for
every Koi after that. I don't remember seeing any conditions
tagged onto that theory ....

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"BenignVanilla" wrote in message
...
"Nedra" wrote in message
link.net...
Since when do we ask if 220 gallons is too small for Koi?
That would appear to be a given. Any problems would stem
from that fact.
snip

Nedra...I agree that a small body of water is typically bad for an
overstock
of fish, but in theory with proper filtration, 220 could support his fish,
right?

BV.

LOL! Oh My my my .... okay I guess if his filtration is
top notch, etc etc ....

But, BV ... this just shoots in the bu**
our (rec.ponds) most recent theory that we need 1,000
gallons of water for the first Koi and 100 gallons for
every Koi after that. I don't remember seeing any conditions
tagged onto that theory ....

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"BenignVanilla" wrote in message
...
"Nedra" wrote in message
link.net...
Since when do we ask if 220 gallons is too small for Koi?
That would appear to be a given. Any problems would stem
from that fact.
snip

Nedra...I agree that a small body of water is typically bad for an
overstock
of fish, but in theory with proper filtration, 220 could support his fish,
right?

BV.

PHEW!!!! That is one BIG relief.... Thanks Gary.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"GACinMass" wrote in message
...
How many koi do you have in 220 gal.????????

Sorry, I meant 2200 gallons. I've got to start proofreading my posts!

~ Gary

PHEW!!!! That is one BIG relief.... Thanks Gary.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"GACinMass" wrote in message
...
How many koi do you have in 220 gal.????????

Sorry, I meant 2200 gallons. I've got to start proofreading my posts!

~ Gary

"BenignVanilla" wrote:

"Nedra" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Since when do we ask if 220 gallons is too small for Koi?
That would appear to be a given. Any problems would stem
from that fact.
snip

Nedra...I agree that a small body of water is typically bad for an overstock
of fish, but in theory with proper filtration, 220 could support his fish,
right?

Are they going to have room when they grow? Unlike some other fish, koi
keep growing even if there isn't room for them.

220 gals isn't any bigger than a show tank for koi.

Oh!! lol


On 16 Jul 2003 16:15:54 GMT, ospam (GACinMass)
wrote:

How many koi do you have in 220 gal.????????

Sorry, I meant 2200 gallons. I've got to start proofreading my posts!

~ Gary

Oh!! lol


On 16 Jul 2003 16:15:54 GMT, ospam (GACinMass)
wrote:

How many koi do you have in 220 gal.????????

Sorry, I meant 2200 gallons. I've got to start proofreading my posts!

~ Gary

there probably are a lot of uninformed newbies who think they can fit big
koi in that space.
I would think informing them politely of their mistakes will help future
PORGS

muffin . everyone was a newbie once



"Nedra" wrote in message
link.net...
Since when do we ask if 220 gallons is too small for Koi?
That would appear to be a given. Any problems would stem
from that fact.

Nedra

there probably are a lot of uninformed newbies who think they can fit big
koi in that space.
I would think informing them politely of their mistakes will help future
PORGS

muffin . everyone was a newbie once



"Nedra" wrote in message
link.net...
Since when do we ask if 220 gallons is too small for Koi?
That would appear to be a given. Any problems would stem
from that fact.

Nedra

I was kidding. ~ jan

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:52:50 GMT, "Nedra" wrote:

Since when do we ask if 220 gallons is too small for Koi?
That would appear to be a given. Any problems would stem
from that fact.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
.. .
But Nedra, he didn't ask if his pond was too small in his questions. ;o)

Gary, You've gotten some good advice, but I'll give my 2 cents.

Many Koi Clubs around the country now have trained KHAs (Koi Health
Advisors) they will come to your home, microscope in hand and help, free!
So you might want to check your area on the AKCA.org website and find your
closest club and if they have trained KHAs.

I don't follow the *I can't catch them* story. I get IN my 6'X13' pond
full
of plants and herd my fish into a big black 24" diameter plastic planter
pot. Then I bag them from there. So get a big tub and herd them, don't try
to net them.

My drugs of choice for shot-gunning are those that won't destroy the
filter. Lymnozyme, or Koizyme (I guess they're calling it now). Romet B
feed or other medicated feeds. Salt. For flukes, malathion. Dimalin for
anchor worm or lice, neither it or malathion ruin the bio-filter.

I just went thru a malathion treatment in both ponds and sick tank, last
one today. Sick tank is salted over 0.3% and I'm treating the fish in
there
with a product called Tricide-Neo. Fish was scraped before treatment and
only one fluke showed up. I don't think flukes though caused the initial
damage, I think it was injury and not getting my filter, salt & lymnozyme
either up to snuff or in the pond early enough because I was adjusting to
going back to work this spring when one should be keeping a close eye on
pond things. The jury is out on whether I'll save this fish or not. My
main
goal is the experience of doing in (I took the KHA class), but there's no
experience like doing it! So I am. Would be nice if the fish survives me,
and my treatment, but I've seen better looking dead carp on the beach.s
~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

1st and foremost check your water quality. I've reposted the sick
fish/sick
pond form, fill it out. ~ jan


On 15 Jul 2003 13:50:20 GMT, ospam (GACinMass) wrote:

I've read several books on koi diseases, parasites, etc. All of them
emphasize
the importance of sending scrapings/samples to a lab or having a
microscope in
order to properly identify the culprit and determine the appropriate
course of
treatment.

OK, time for a reality check: First, the only way I have ever been able
to net
a koi in my pond is to nearly drain it. This stresses the fish so much
that I
will not do it again. In fact, the last time I did this, for a full year
afterward they would run & hide when they saw anyone at the pond's edge.
So I
will not be able to get a scraping or sample of any kind.

Second, I do not have a microscope or a lab nearby so I'm forced to guess
what
the affliction is and what treatment to start.

I tend to start with Potassium Permanganate, treating the entire 220 gal
pond.
If I don't see improvement, I try Formalin. If that doesn't work I try
Limnozyme. I know this is a wasteful "shotgun" approach but it has worked
somewhat. Last year I lost 2 koi to some kind of ulcer/fungus thing
before I
was able to get it under control.

Here's my question: If you can only guess at what the ailment is, how
would you
treat it? What meds in what order? Is PP the best place to start? My
fish
have just been through a spawning episode and several are now showing
whitish
bumps on their fins. One has skinned his nose pretty seriously. I
started the
PP yesterday and have my fingers crossed. Any advice would be much
appreciated.

~ Gary
Zone 6b






See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

But, BV ... this just shoots in the bu**
our (rec.ponds) most recent theory that we need 1,000
gallons of water for the first Koi and 100 gallons for
every Koi after that. I don't remember seeing any conditions
tagged onto that theory ....
Nedra

That ideal is excellent "rule of thumb" information for newbies. Those of
us who "think" we know what we're doing can get away with less pond, more
fish, by mega filtration. Otherwise I'd never have hope of getting this 20"
sick koi healthy as it's only in ~50-60 gallons.... with 20 gallons of
filter. ;o) ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

jj wrote That ideal is excellent "rule of thumb" information for newbies.
And safer for the potential fish.
Unfortunately there are so many articles
out there in main stream magazines that
advise gardeners to dig a hole and toss in
koi with little or no information on how to
care for these fish.
Those articles fry me crispy!


k30a

I caught this thread late.
My comments are same as Rich's, so I'll leave it at that.
The only thing I don't do as Rich does is the Koizyme.
Happy ponding,
Greg


"K30a" wrote in message
...
jj wrote That ideal is excellent "rule of thumb" information for
newbies.
And safer for the potential fish.
Unfortunately there are so many articles
out there in main stream magazines that
advise gardeners to dig a hole and toss in
koi with little or no information on how to
care for these fish.
Those articles fry me crispy!


k30a