hello all,
I've been reading and learning here for a few weeks. Two weeks ago I finally
got my small pond in (my first one) It's 4'x6' 18" deep with a 30 gallon
biofilter, bottom inlet, spilling into a 10 foot long stream that empties back
into the pond. Well all of the water is flowing under the rocks in the little
falls and I'm planning on using spray foam to seal the rocks so the flow goes
over the rocks. I have about 20 little gold fish (15 one inchers and 5 two
inchers) and a bunch of pond plants already in the pond. On Sunday I was
planning on turning off the pumps and draining the stream (the filter has a
check valve in line so it won't empty) removing the rocks and cleaning/drying
the stream liner and reinstalling the rocks while using the spray foam. After
I'm done with the foam and rocks and all looks good how long should I wait
before turning the pump back on? Will the not completely set up spray foam hurt
the fish or water? Will the foam be effective sticking to the wet rocks? Any
other thoughts and/or tips?
Thanks for any help,
Pat

Hi Pat,
What kind of foam are you using?

Mark

Mark,
I bought the "Great Stuff for gaps and cracks". But I could run out and get the
black pond stuff a saw at the aquarium store that they sell for ponds if it
would be better. But, I've read here and/or elsewhere that they are the same
except for the color. The pond stuff is black and the "Great Stuff" is a
white/yellow color.
-Pat

Hi Pat,
welcome to the group and thank you for posting!
There are lots and lots of really great folks here.
I hope you'll take the opportunity to continue to participate in this forum.
Since you just installed your first pond 2 weeks ago,
you're about to embark on an educational process.
This will include such topis as ( to name just a few), ecosystem development
and management. Aquaculture. Marine biology. Mechanical, chemical and
process engineering and, of course, critterology.

And, whether you realize it or not,
you've also just aquired an additiction.
You will never look at a body of water the same way again.

The Great Stuff Pro website,

http://www.dow.com/greatstuff/pro/products/basic.htm

states that the foam is tack free in 6 minutes, you can
trim it in 30 minutes and that it cures in less than one hour.
Also I would ensure that you are using the polyurethane foam
(cream color) and not the latex foam (white).
Polyurethane will make a better seal.

This website,

http://www.dow.com/greatstuff/uses/index.htm

states that it's used in ponds, waterfalls and boat applications.

I would suggest experimenting with it first to get the hang of it.
Take a few rocks from your stream, a leftover piece of liner and try bonding
them together in a fashion similar to what you will be doing
in your stream. I imagine you'll just be running a bead
behind the rocks and not trying to completely glue each rock
completely into position? If the rocks will be wet when
you do your "real life" application, use
wet rocks for your test. Lay the test liner on a board
and prop up one end to achieve a slight decline, similar
to your stream. Then apply the rocks and foam.
When the foam has cured for an hour
or so, wiggle the rocks to check if the Great Stuff
bonded the liner and wet rocks. If that goes well,
then run some water down your test setup
with the garden hose. The water should be forced
to run around the rocks and not go under them.
If you do that today (7/19/03), you should meet your schedule
of performing the task tomorrow. Since Great Stuff sealant is cream
colored, if you plan to paint, allow time for that. I used pool paint
and dyed it with concrete dye to achieve the colors I wanted.

Check the drying time on the paint if you choose to use it.
If it takes a day or so to completely cure, you can bypass your stream
temporarily with a hose from your filter to keep circulation
going for the fish if you want to. Our ponds are about the same size with
about
the same fish load. I've left my pump / filter completely off for two days
while working on the system. There's plenty
of air for the fish, although your bio-bacteria may suffer some.

Goldfish are pretty tough. Mine have survived concrete-water
run off, mud and other sundry abuses as I developed my pond over the last 2
years. Great Stuff touts that it doesn't contain any
CFCs or solvents, and it's used in home heating and air conditioning.
To me, that's safe enough. Personally, I'd go for it.

When my fish see me coming, they probably
think "Uh oh.....now what!?" The rest of the time they enjoy
crystal clear water and a wealth of plant life to munch on.

I hope this is helpful.

Mark

"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
Mark,
I bought the "Great Stuff for gaps and cracks". But I could run out and
get the
black pond stuff a saw at the aquarium store that they sell for ponds if
it
would be better. But, I've read here and/or elsewhere that they are the
same
except for the color. The pond stuff is black and the "Great Stuff" is a
white/yellow color.
-Pat

Mark,
Thanks for all the great info. I'll take your advise and run that test tonight.
(great idea BTW) I'll let you know how it all turned out for me.
Thanks again,
-Pat

My guess is that Pat has already acknowledged "pond addiction"! Remember,
the initial post mentioned "small pond (my first one)"!

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC


"Mark T." wrote in message
...
Hi Pat,
welcome to the group and thank you for posting!
There are lots and lots of really great folks here.
I hope you'll take the opportunity to continue to participate in this
forum.
Since you just installed your first pond 2 weeks ago,
you're about to embark on an educational process.
This will include such topis as ( to name just a few), ecosystem
development
and management. Aquaculture. Marine biology. Mechanical, chemical and
process engineering and, of course, critterology.

And, whether you realize it or not,
you've also just aquired an additiction.
You will never look at a body of water the same way again.

The Great Stuff Pro website,

http://www.dow.com/greatstuff/pro/products/basic.htm

states that the foam is tack free in 6 minutes, you can
trim it in 30 minutes and that it cures in less than one hour.
Also I would ensure that you are using the polyurethane foam
(cream color) and not the latex foam (white).
Polyurethane will make a better seal.

This website,

http://www.dow.com/greatstuff/uses/index.htm

states that it's used in ponds, waterfalls and boat applications.

I would suggest experimenting with it first to get the hang of it.
Take a few rocks from your stream, a leftover piece of liner and try
bonding
them together in a fashion similar to what you will be doing
in your stream. I imagine you'll just be running a bead
behind the rocks and not trying to completely glue each rock
completely into position? If the rocks will be wet when
you do your "real life" application, use
wet rocks for your test. Lay the test liner on a board
and prop up one end to achieve a slight decline, similar
to your stream. Then apply the rocks and foam.
When the foam has cured for an hour
or so, wiggle the rocks to check if the Great Stuff
bonded the liner and wet rocks. If that goes well,
then run some water down your test setup
with the garden hose. The water should be forced
to run around the rocks and not go under them.
If you do that today (7/19/03), you should meet your schedule
of performing the task tomorrow. Since Great Stuff sealant is cream
colored, if you plan to paint, allow time for that. I used pool paint
and dyed it with concrete dye to achieve the colors I wanted.

Check the drying time on the paint if you choose to use it.
If it takes a day or so to completely cure, you can bypass your stream
temporarily with a hose from your filter to keep circulation
going for the fish if you want to. Our ponds are about the same size with
about
the same fish load. I've left my pump / filter completely off for two
days
while working on the system. There's plenty
of air for the fish, although your bio-bacteria may suffer some.

Goldfish are pretty tough. Mine have survived concrete-water
run off, mud and other sundry abuses as I developed my pond over the last
2
years. Great Stuff touts that it doesn't contain any
CFCs or solvents, and it's used in home heating and air conditioning.
To me, that's safe enough. Personally, I'd go for it.

When my fish see me coming, they probably
think "Uh oh.....now what!?" The rest of the time they enjoy
crystal clear water and a wealth of plant life to munch on.

I hope this is helpful.

Mark

"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
Mark,
I bought the "Great Stuff for gaps and cracks". But I could run out and
get the
black pond stuff a saw at the aquarium store that they sell for ponds if
it
would be better. But, I've read here and/or elsewhere that they are the
same
except for the color. The pond stuff is black and the "Great Stuff" is a
white/yellow color.
-Pat

Hi,
As a followup to this thread, I contacted DOW regarding
the application of Great Stuff to ponds & waterfalls.
Here is the reply I received:

Mark,

The Great Stuff will work fine in your application. The surface area does
not need to be completely dry since the foam cures by absorbing moisture.
The cured foam is organic material so it will not harm the fish or plant
life in any way. If you have any further questions please let me know.
Regards,

Sean Ramballie

______________________________________

The Dow Chemical Company

1881 W. Oak Parkway

Marietta, GA. 30062

Ph. (678) 269-1262

Fx. (770) 423-4395

email:

"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
hello all,
I've been reading and learning here for a few weeks. Two weeks ago I
finally
got my small pond in (my first one) It's 4'x6' 18" deep with a 30 gallon
biofilter, bottom inlet, spilling into a 10 foot long stream that empties
back
into the pond. Well all of the water is flowing under the rocks in the
little
falls and I'm planning on using spray foam to seal the rocks so the flow
goes
over the rocks. I have about 20 little gold fish (15 one inchers and 5 two
inchers) and a bunch of pond plants already in the pond. On Sunday I was
planning on turning off the pumps and draining the stream (the filter has
a
check valve in line so it won't empty) removing the rocks and
cleaning/drying
the stream liner and reinstalling the rocks while using the spray foam.
After
I'm done with the foam and rocks and all looks good how long should I wait
before turning the pump back on? Will the not completely set up spray foam
hurt
the fish or water? Will the foam be effective sticking to the wet rocks?
Any
other thoughts and/or tips?
Thanks for any help,
Pat

Mark,
Thanks for posting the below info. It's reassuring to know the stuff is safe.
-Pat

The Great Stuff will work fine in your application. The surface area does
not need to be completely dry since the foam cures by absorbing moisture.
The cured foam is organic material so it will not harm the fish or plant
life in any way. If you have any further questions please let me know.
Regards,
Sean Ramballie