"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
ACK!!!!!



snip Now all you need is an anti-vortex cover,

I'm not famliar with this.. can you elaborate?

My wife and I are really getting excited about this project.. we can't wait
to get started!!

Chris

OK, your pool probably has a grate over the bottom drain to keep little (and
not so little) hands from getting caught in it. But it essentially draws the
water from straight overhead. When you make an antivortex cover, you get a
dome that sits on little legs, usually only 1/2" or so from the bottom. That
forces the suction to pull from a very limited area, literally sucking the
surrounding area, instead of just the water column overhead. Because the
drains are usually in the lowest section of the pool, it pulls the crud that
settles on the bottom to the drain. Now, if you put an air dome on it, you
literally change the barometric pressure on the bottom; the rising air
bubbles assist in pulling the crud to the drain. And the air bubbles add
extra oxygen to the water and give the koi additional play areas. If you
were to dig a pond and install one of these gizmos in your pond, it would
look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ib1j . But you can make one a WHOLE lot
cheaper! I use a 16" terracotta clay bowl; it has a 1" drain hole in the
bottom. I purchased a membrane air diffuser http://tinyurl.com/ib2c , which
conveniently has a 3/4" stem on it, which (conveniently!) just fits into the
1" hole in the bowl. Use appropriate PVC step downs, put on the airhose,
hook it up and VIOLA! air dome! I made a little "table" of 1/2 pvc to rest
the bowl on, to keep it at the appropriate height off the bottom. So you end
up with a little UFO looking thing with a buncha bubbles coming out of it
sitting in the bottom of your pond. The algae covers it nicely in a few
weeks, and the air pressure keeps the disk from ever getting fouled. And
it's heavy enough that the koi can't knock it over.

Lee

"Chris Herring" wrote in message
...

"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
ACK!!!!!



snip Now all you need is an anti-vortex cover,

I'm not famliar with this.. can you elaborate?

My wife and I are really getting excited about this project.. we can't
wait
to get started!!

Chris

"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
OK, your pool probably has a grate over the bottom drain to keep little
(and
not so little) hands from getting caught in it. But it essentially draws
the
water from straight overhead. When you make an antivortex cover, you get a
dome that sits on little legs, usually only 1/2" or so from the bottom.
That
forces the suction to pull from a very limited area, literally sucking the
surrounding area, instead of just the water column overhead. Because the
drains are usually in the lowest section of the pool, it pulls the crud
that
settles on the bottom to the drain. Now, if you put an air dome on it,
you
literally change the barometric pressure on the bottom; the rising air
bubbles assist in pulling the crud to the drain. And the air bubbles add
extra oxygen to the water and give the koi additional play areas. If you
were to dig a pond and install one of these gizmos in your pond, it would
look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ib1j . But you can make one a WHOLE
lot
cheaper! I use a 16" terracotta clay bowl; it has a 1" drain hole in the
bottom. I purchased a membrane air diffuser http://tinyurl.com/ib2c ,
which
conveniently has a 3/4" stem on it, which (conveniently!) just fits into
the
1" hole in the bowl. Use appropriate PVC step downs, put on the airhose,
hook it up and VIOLA! air dome! I made a little "table" of 1/2 pvc to rest
the bowl on, to keep it at the appropriate height off the bottom. So you
end
up with a little UFO looking thing with a buncha bubbles coming out of it
sitting in the bottom of your pond. The algae covers it nicely in a few
weeks, and the air pressure keeps the disk from ever getting fouled. And
it's heavy enough that the koi can't knock it over.

Thanks for the explanation... I will add this to my plans!

Chris

Hi Chris, I have a 28,000 gallon pool right next to my new 5,000
gallon Koi pond. I'd have done the same thing except my kids love the
pool and wouldn't let me.

I agree with all of the advice you've gotten so far, especially with
regard to the bottom drain. Leaves are easy, I have breakfast with my
Koi every morning, I just skim off the few that have accumulated and
weren't caught by my skimmer.

A few thoughts to consider, your skimmer and your plumbing:

If your current skimmer is a typical pool skimmer, it is not "fish
safe". Any medium or smaller Koi could easily get caught in my pool
skimmer. I believe there are retrofit kits, if not it wouldn't be too
difficult to fashion an adapter to go with a no-niche or similar fish
safe skimmer.

The other problem I would have converting my pool is the plumbing, the
pipe coming from the pool to my pump is 1 and 1/2" copper. I doubt
that would work well for a Koi pond but I'm not sure. I know you
would starve a large pump with pipe that small. If you have 2" or
bigger PVC you should be golden.

One last thing, you mentioned dead frogs. Keep in mind, once you've
established your pond, those frogs won't die and they will multiply
quickly. I've got a buddy who built a pond and what he has now is a
frog pond. It's so loud out there he has to close the patio door to
talk on the phone.

Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
ways I'm sad mine is "finished".

Best wishes,
Kevin

snip
"Kevin Carbis" wrote in message
om...
Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
ways I'm sad mine is "finished".

You can come help me with mine! I hate to see an unhappy ponder . . . G

Lee

"Kevin Carbis" wrote in message
om...

snip
If your current skimmer is a typical pool skimmer, it is not "fish
safe". Any medium or smaller Koi could easily get caught in my pool
skimmer. I believe there are retrofit kits, if not it wouldn't be too
difficult to fashion an adapter to go with a no-niche or similar fish
safe skimmer.

I am planning to remove the existing skimmer, along with the coping and all
of the surrounding concrete slabs. So I will have an opportunity to build an
appropriate skimmer. Not sure what it's going to look like yet..

The other problem I would have converting my pool is the plumbing, the
pipe coming from the pool to my pump is 1 and 1/2" copper. I doubt
that would work well for a Koi pond but I'm not sure. I know you
would starve a large pump with pipe that small. If you have 2" or
bigger PVC you should be golden.

The bottom drain is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. How do I decide if that will be
adequate?

One last thing, you mentioned dead frogs. Keep in mind, once you've
established your pond, those frogs won't die and they will multiply
quickly. I've got a buddy who built a pond and what he has now is a
frog pond. It's so loud out there he has to close the patio door to
talk on the phone.

It seems like most ponds eventually attract frogs.. I'm not too worried
about it.. I should probably be more worried about my relationship with my
neighbors!

Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
ways I'm sad mine is "finished".

I have been reading this NG for a couple of weeks, and that's the first time
I've heard the "f" word

Chris

Chris Herring wrote:
"Kevin Carbis" wrote in message
om...


Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
ways I'm sad mine is "finished".


I have been reading this NG for a couple of weeks, and that's the first time
I've heard the "f" word

Chris




-- thats cause he's in denial right now he'll be fidlin prety quick





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Ooooooh . . . a bottom drain is "ideally" 4 inches, but shouldn't be less
than 3 inches. That's so it can routinely draw leaves and other stuff that
make it to the bottom to the filters. But not to worry, if necessary, we can
jerry-rig retro-fit bottom drains!

Lee

"Chris Herring" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Carbis" wrote in message
om...

snip
If your current skimmer is a typical pool skimmer, it is not "fish
safe". Any medium or smaller Koi could easily get caught in my pool
skimmer. I believe there are retrofit kits, if not it wouldn't be too
difficult to fashion an adapter to go with a no-niche or similar fish
safe skimmer.

I am planning to remove the existing skimmer, along with the coping and
all
of the surrounding concrete slabs. So I will have an opportunity to build
an
appropriate skimmer. Not sure what it's going to look like yet..

The other problem I would have converting my pool is the plumbing, the
pipe coming from the pool to my pump is 1 and 1/2" copper. I doubt
that would work well for a Koi pond but I'm not sure. I know you
would starve a large pump with pipe that small. If you have 2" or
bigger PVC you should be golden.

The bottom drain is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. How do I decide if that will be
adequate?

One last thing, you mentioned dead frogs. Keep in mind, once you've
established your pond, those frogs won't die and they will multiply
quickly. I've got a buddy who built a pond and what he has now is a
frog pond. It's so loud out there he has to close the patio door to
talk on the phone.

It seems like most ponds eventually attract frogs.. I'm not too worried
about it.. I should probably be more worried about my relationship with my
neighbors!

Good luck, building a Koi pond is a blast, you'll have fun. In some
ways I'm sad mine is "finished".

I have been reading this NG for a couple of weeks, and that's the first
time
I've heard the "f" word

Chris

Chris asked:

The bottom drain is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. How do I decide if that will be
adequate?

Depending on who you talk to ( or argue with ), you'll want to turn
your water over once every hour or two. In your case, thats a lot of
water. My 1/4 horse pump is rated to push about 4,000 gallons per
hour so I'm turning the water over almost once an hour in my 5,000
gallon pond. In your case you'll need to push at least 10,000 GPH I'd
think. In looking to replace my pool pump I learned that anything
over about 1 horse will be starved by the small 1 and 1/2 inch pipe
that feeds my pump. You may be fine, if not there are workarounds,
you could run the bottom drain and skimmer on seperate pumps for
example. Then with two 1/4 horse pumps like mine you'd be turing the
water over about once every two hours which should be adequate if you
don't overstock your pond.

"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
OK, your pool probably has a grate over the bottom drain to keep little
(and
not so little) hands from getting caught in it. But it essentially draws
the
water from straight overhead. When you make an antivortex cover, you get a
dome that sits on little legs, usually only 1/2" or so from the bottom.
snip

I need to install mine. I have been running my BD sans diffuser so far, but
I watched a koi get sucked into the drain yesterday. He was able to get out,
but I need that diffuser in place. Time to go scuba.

"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
Now, if you put an air dome on it, you
literally change the barometric pressure on the bottom; the rising air
bubbles assist in pulling the crud to the drain. And the air bubbles add
extra oxygen to the water and give the koi additional play areas.

I am still baffled by the air bubble thing. Can you explain further?

BV.

Reply-To: "BenignVanilla"
NNTP-Posting-Host: s2m1r4.icmarc.org (12.28.187.13)
X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1059590543 23098659 12.28.187.13 (16 [152254])
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Path: kermit!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!eusc.inter.net! fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!s2m1r4.icmarc.ORG!not-for-mail
Xref: kermit rec.ponds:124937


"Kevin Carbis" wrote in message
om...
Chris asked:

The bottom drain is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. How do I decide if that will
be
adequate?

Depending on who you talk to ( or argue with ), you'll want to turn
your water over once every hour or two. In your case, thats a lot of
water. My 1/4 horse pump is rated to push about 4,000 gallons per
hour so I'm turning the water over almost once an hour in my 5,000
gallon pond. In your case you'll need to push at least 10,000 GPH I'd
think. In looking to replace my pool pump I learned that anything
over about 1 horse will be starved by the small 1 and 1/2 inch pipe
that feeds my pump. You may be fine, if not there are workarounds,
you could run the bottom drain and skimmer on seperate pumps for
example. Then with two 1/4 horse pumps like mine you'd be turing the
water over about once every two hours which should be adequate if you
don't overstock your pond.

I am not speaking from any platform of knowledge, but I'd think that with a
body of water so large, if planted nicely, and not stocked to the max, he
could easily get along with a lower turn over rate.

BV.

BV, if I had the *slightest* idea of how to explain barometric pressure, I
would. Unfortunately, I can't. But maybe someone else can . . . How it works
is something else: as the bubbles rise, they displace the water. New water
moves in to replace the air bubbles, and pulls the "stuff" with it, drawing
it more towards the drain. The oxygen benefits of the air diffuser is pretty
much self explanatory. Folks that had regular covered bottom drains and
upgraded to the "air domes" swear by them.

Lee

"BenignVanilla" wrote in message
...

"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
Now, if you put an air dome on it, you
literally change the barometric pressure on the bottom; the rising air
bubbles assist in pulling the crud to the drain. And the air bubbles add
extra oxygen to the water and give the koi additional play areas.

I am still baffled by the air bubble thing. Can you explain further?

BV.

"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
BV, if I had the *slightest* idea of how to explain barometric pressure, I
would. Unfortunately, I can't. But maybe someone else can . . . How it
works
is something else: as the bubbles rise, they displace the water. New water
moves in to replace the air bubbles, and pulls the "stuff" with it,
drawing
it more towards the drain. The oxygen benefits of the air diffuser is
pretty
much self explanatory. Folks that had regular covered bottom drains and
upgraded to the "air domes" swear by them.
snip

So the bubbles don't go into the drain, they surface above it. That makes
sense...not sure I want my pond constantly bubbling though.

BV.

The constant bubbles are what makes it GOOD! Extra O2, keeps your pond
ice-free, fishies like to swim through them . . . FWIW, if it disturbs the
surface too much when you want to watch them, get one of those remote
control switches (I have a slew of them I use for outside Christmas lights)
and plug your air pump into one. Then you can just flick a switch to turn it
off/on for viewing ease.

Lee

"BenignVanilla" wrote in message
...
"Lee Brouillet" wrote in message
...
BV, if I had the *slightest* idea of how to explain barometric pressure,
I
would. Unfortunately, I can't. But maybe someone else can . . . How it
works
is something else: as the bubbles rise, they displace the water. New
water
moves in to replace the air bubbles, and pulls the "stuff" with it,
drawing
it more towards the drain. The oxygen benefits of the air diffuser is
pretty
much self explanatory. Folks that had regular covered bottom drains and
upgraded to the "air domes" swear by them.
snip

So the bubbles don't go into the drain, they surface above it. That makes
sense...not sure I want my pond constantly bubbling though.

BV.