I built a new pond in May and added four gold fishies soon after. They were
all doing quite well, until the local cat snagged one (Scarecrow stopped
working).

So about a week ago I added four new gold fishies (Lionheads). These are the
same type as the original (Walmart specials), but they were considerably
smaller than the existing fish, who eat like piggies. The new fish were also
a different colour, two were almost all silver with gold spots and one was
silver with speckles, no gold.

I let the new fish adjust to the water temp before I added them to the pond,
but did not adjust the PH.

The first new fish died within two days, laying on the bottom and not
eating. It ignored the other fish or they ignored him? The second new fish
(speckled) was active for a while, but did not eat and did not associate
with the other fish. Found him wedged under a rock on the bottom of the pond
this morning. It had a whitish coating on its body and eyes. The third fish
has always hung out with the other fish and eats like a horse.

The pond is about 300+ gallons, with water lillies, water hyacynth, small
fountain and waterfall. I have an external filter with UV light, so there is
no floating algea just surface algea. The PH runs a little high, but not too
bad.

Any ideas what might have caused this? Will it spread to the other fish?
Could it be an air bladder infection?

"Bill Stock" wrote in message able.rogers.com...
I built a new pond in May and added four gold fishies soon after. They were
all doing quite well, until the local cat snagged one (Scarecrow stopped
working).

So about a week ago I added four new gold fishies (Lionheads). These are the
same type as the original (Walmart specials), but they were considerably
smaller than the existing fish, who eat like piggies. The new fish were also
a different colour, two were almost all silver with gold spots and one was
silver with speckles, no gold.

I let the new fish adjust to the water temp before I added them to the pond,
but did not adjust the PH.

The first new fish died within two days, laying on the bottom and not
eating. It ignored the other fish or they ignored him? The second new fish
(speckled) was active for a while, but did not eat and did not associate
with the other fish. Found him wedged under a rock on the bottom of the pond
this morning. It had a whitish coating on its body and eyes. The third fish
has always hung out with the other fish and eats like a horse.

The pond is about 300+ gallons, with water lillies, water hyacynth, small
fountain and waterfall. I have an external filter with UV light, so there is
no floating algea just surface algea. The PH runs a little high, but not too
bad.

Any ideas what might have caused this? Will it spread to the other fish?
Could it be an air bladder infection?

Walmart isn't known for healthy fish. They probably were sick before
you bought them. You may have infected your old fish so maybe give
them a dose of .01% sea salt or any additive free salt like water
softener salt.

New fish should be quarrantined for a month or more in salt water at
first. Use an aquarium or a plastic tote with an air stone. When they
passed the test put them in the pond. This approach will save you old
fish.

When adding salt make sure it is additive free and dissolve it in a
bucket of pond water and then add it to the pond. Invest in a few good
pond books like the Pond Doctor by Helen Nash and Garden Ponds by Dick
Mills at Tetra Press. When Having a sick fish research at Koi Vet or
AKCA-Koi USA. Happy Water Gardening.

http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/p...se/disease.htm
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/p...htm#quarantine for pond fish
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/p...re1.htm#buying a new goldfish

dont float bags of fish in a pond if 1. it is hot out or 2. if the sun is hitting the
bag. the oxygen is depleted really fast. dont open the bags until you are ready to
move the fish. then open, do the salt dip and quarantine all new fish. Ingrid

"Bill Stock" wrote:

I built a new pond in May and added four gold fishies soon after. They were
all doing quite well, until the local cat snagged one (Scarecrow stopped
working).

So about a week ago I added four new gold fishies (Lionheads). These are the
same type as the original (Walmart specials), but they were considerably
smaller than the existing fish, who eat like piggies. The new fish were also
a different colour, two were almost all silver with gold spots and one was
silver with speckles, no gold.

I let the new fish adjust to the water temp before I added them to the pond,
but did not adjust the PH.

The first new fish died within two days, laying on the bottom and not
eating. It ignored the other fish or they ignored him? The second new fish
(speckled) was active for a while, but did not eat and did not associate
with the other fish. Found him wedged under a rock on the bottom of the pond
this morning. It had a whitish coating on its body and eyes. The third fish
has always hung out with the other fish and eats like a horse.

The pond is about 300+ gallons, with water lillies, water hyacynth, small
fountain and waterfall. I have an external filter with UV light, so there is
no floating algea just surface algea. The PH runs a little high, but not too
bad.

Any ideas what might have caused this? Will it spread to the other fish?
Could it be an air bladder infection?





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Good advice. Sounds like fish transport stress. No matter what
anyone ever tells you, floating fish in bags to acclimate to
temperature is risky business, and does nothing for potentially more
serious issues such as pH shock. When fish are transported in bags,
it is best to pour the contents into an open container, add an
airstone to replenish lost dissolved oxygen, and over a five or ten
minute period add destination water (pond, tank, etc) at least equal
in volume to the transport water. This gives fish time to adjust to
water chemistry. Follow up with temperature acclimation (add more
destination water until temperatures are similar) and release the
fish.



wrote:

http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/p...se/disease.htm
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/p...htm#quarantine for pond fish
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/p...re1.htm#buying a new goldfish

dont float bags of fish in a pond if 1. it is hot out or 2. if the sun is hitting the
bag. the oxygen is depleted really fast. dont open the bags until you are ready to
move the fish. then open, do the salt dip and quarantine all new fish. Ingrid

"Bill Stock" wrote:

I built a new pond in May and added four gold fishies soon after. They were
all doing quite well, until the local cat snagged one (Scarecrow stopped
working).

So about a week ago I added four new gold fishies (Lionheads). These are the
same type as the original (Walmart specials), but they were considerably
smaller than the existing fish, who eat like piggies. The new fish were also
a different colour, two were almost all silver with gold spots and one was
silver with speckles, no gold.

I let the new fish adjust to the water temp before I added them to the pond,
but did not adjust the PH.

The first new fish died within two days, laying on the bottom and not
eating. It ignored the other fish or they ignored him? The second new fish
(speckled) was active for a while, but did not eat and did not associate
with the other fish. Found him wedged under a rock on the bottom of the pond
this morning. It had a whitish coating on its body and eyes. The third fish
has always hung out with the other fish and eats like a horse.

The pond is about 300+ gallons, with water lillies, water hyacynth, small
fountain and waterfall. I have an external filter with UV light, so there is
no floating algea just surface algea. The PH runs a little high, but not too
bad.

Any ideas what might have caused this? Will it spread to the other fish?
Could it be an air bladder infection?





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

no, if fish have been in the bag for more than 1/2 and hour the water now has ammonia
but the CO2 blown off by the fish pushes the pH down making the ammonia less toxic.
open the bag and the CO2 is blown off, pH rises and ammonia is more toxic. adding
pond water to the bucket for some reason releases other toxins as well. the minute
the bag is opened the fish gotta be moved.
changes in pH up to 7.0 or down to 7.0 wont hurt fish, up past 7.0, it takes 24 hours
to acclimate to 0.2 pH units. so if the fish is coming from acidic waters (ask when
you buy them) and going into alkaline water, "acclimating" over an hour isnt going to
do anything. better is to pH that quarantine tank down to 7.0 and over the next weeks
bring it up to the alkaline pH. high jump in alkalinity can bring on dropsy.
temp is not a problem if it goes up, but no more than a 4oF drop over 24 hours. so
dropping temp in an hour isnt going to do anything for the fish. drops in temp bring
on ich and dropsy. better to gradually lower the temp in a quarantine tank over
several days. Ingrid

When fish are transported in bags,
it is best to pour the contents into an open container, add an
airstone to replenish lost dissolved oxygen, and over a five or ten
minute period add destination water (pond, tank, etc) at least equal
in volume to the transport water. This gives fish time to adjust to
water chemistry. Follow up with temperature acclimation (add more
destination water until temperatures are similar) and release the
fish.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

To my knowledge, there has been considerable debate on proper
acclimation procedures for fish over the years. That which I posted
has proven the most successful method for a thriving tropical fish and
goldfish hatchery operated by my family during the last forty years.
Life underwater can be a stressful excerise. Many freshwater fish are
evolved to adjust to wide changes in pH, temperature, dissolved
oxygen, and other water quaility parameters in every 24 hour period:
these parameters are rarely stable in nature and fish must be able to
adjust as changes occur. Harm occurs to fish in transport when
tolerance limits are exceeded (e.g. ammonia buildup and oxygen
depletion in a bag) or when change occurs too rapidly (e.g. dumping a
bag of water and fish at pH 6.8 into a pond at pH 8.1). The key is to
get the fish out of the bag as soon as possible, but to not expose
them to completely new conditions too rapidly.

If you have a quarantine tank, by all means use it when you bring home
new fish. You must still acclimate fish from the tank to the pond
when quarantine is over.

wrote:

no, if fish have been in the bag for more than 1/2 and hour the water now has ammonia
but the CO2 blown off by the fish pushes the pH down making the ammonia less toxic.
open the bag and the CO2 is blown off, pH rises and ammonia is more toxic. adding
pond water to the bucket for some reason releases other toxins as well. the minute
the bag is opened the fish gotta be moved.
changes in pH up to 7.0 or down to 7.0 wont hurt fish, up past 7.0, it takes 24 hours
to acclimate to 0.2 pH units. so if the fish is coming from acidic waters (ask when
you buy them) and going into alkaline water, "acclimating" over an hour isnt going to
do anything. better is to pH that quarantine tank down to 7.0 and over the next weeks
bring it up to the alkaline pH. high jump in alkalinity can bring on dropsy.
temp is not a problem if it goes up, but no more than a 4oF drop over 24 hours. so
dropping temp in an hour isnt going to do anything for the fish. drops in temp bring
on ich and dropsy. better to gradually lower the temp in a quarantine tank over
several days. Ingrid

When fish are transported in bags,
it is best to pour the contents into an open container, add an
airstone to replenish lost dissolved oxygen, and over a five or ten
minute period add destination water (pond, tank, etc) at least equal
in volume to the transport water. This gives fish time to adjust to
water chemistry. Follow up with temperature acclimation (add more
destination water until temperatures are similar) and release the
fish.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

yes, the debate is between what all the little books on aquarium fish say and what
experts who sell really expensive fish say.
changes in pH up to 7.0 or down to 7.0 wont hurt fish, up past 7.0, it takes 24 hours
to acclimate to 0.2 pH units. so if the fish is coming from acidic waters (ask when
you buy them) and going into alkaline water, "acclimating" over an hour isnt going to
do anything. better is to pH that quarantine tank down to 7.0 and over the next weeks
bring it up to the alkaline pH. high jump in alkalinity can bring on dropsy.
temp is not a problem if it goes up, but no more than a 4oF drop over 24 hours. so
dropping temp in an hour isnt going to do anything for the fish. drops in temp bring
on ich and dropsy. better to gradually lower the temp in a quarantine tank over
several days. Ingrid

GD wrote:
To my knowledge, there has been considerable debate on proper
acclimation procedures for fish over the years.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

yes, the debate is between what all the little books on aquarium fish say and what
experts who sell really expensive fish say.
changes in pH up to 7.0 or down to 7.0 wont hurt fish, up past 7.0, it takes 24 hours
to acclimate to 0.2 pH units. so if the fish is coming from acidic waters (ask when
you buy them) and going into alkaline water, "acclimating" over an hour isnt going to
do anything. better is to pH that quarantine tank down to 7.0 and over the next weeks
bring it up to the alkaline pH. high jump in alkalinity can bring on dropsy.
temp is not a problem if it goes up, but no more than a 4oF drop over 24 hours. so
dropping temp in an hour isnt going to do anything for the fish. drops in temp bring
on ich and dropsy. better to gradually lower the temp in a quarantine tank over
several days. Ingrid

GD wrote:
To my knowledge, there has been considerable debate on proper
acclimation procedures for fish over the years.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

yes, the debate is between what all the little books on aquarium fish say and what
experts who sell really expensive fish say.
changes in pH up to 7.0 or down to 7.0 wont hurt fish, up past 7.0, it takes 24 hours
to acclimate to 0.2 pH units. so if the fish is coming from acidic waters (ask when
you buy them) and going into alkaline water, "acclimating" over an hour isnt going to
do anything. better is to pH that quarantine tank down to 7.0 and over the next weeks
bring it up to the alkaline pH. high jump in alkalinity can bring on dropsy.
temp is not a problem if it goes up, but no more than a 4oF drop over 24 hours. so
dropping temp in an hour isnt going to do anything for the fish. drops in temp bring
on ich and dropsy. better to gradually lower the temp in a quarantine tank over
several days. Ingrid

GD wrote:
To my knowledge, there has been considerable debate on proper
acclimation procedures for fish over the years.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

yes, the debate is between what all the little books on aquarium fish say and what
experts who sell really expensive fish say.
changes in pH up to 7.0 or down to 7.0 wont hurt fish, up past 7.0, it takes 24 hours
to acclimate to 0.2 pH units. so if the fish is coming from acidic waters (ask when
you buy them) and going into alkaline water, "acclimating" over an hour isnt going to
do anything. better is to pH that quarantine tank down to 7.0 and over the next weeks
bring it up to the alkaline pH. high jump in alkalinity can bring on dropsy.
temp is not a problem if it goes up, but no more than a 4oF drop over 24 hours. so
dropping temp in an hour isnt going to do anything for the fish. drops in temp bring
on ich and dropsy. better to gradually lower the temp in a quarantine tank over
several days. Ingrid

GD wrote:
To my knowledge, there has been considerable debate on proper
acclimation procedures for fish over the years.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

yes, the debate is between what all the little books on aquarium fish say and what
experts who sell really expensive fish say.
changes in pH up to 7.0 or down to 7.0 wont hurt fish, up past 7.0, it takes 24 hours
to acclimate to 0.2 pH units. so if the fish is coming from acidic waters (ask when
you buy them) and going into alkaline water, "acclimating" over an hour isnt going to
do anything. better is to pH that quarantine tank down to 7.0 and over the next weeks
bring it up to the alkaline pH. high jump in alkalinity can bring on dropsy.
temp is not a problem if it goes up, but no more than a 4oF drop over 24 hours. so
dropping temp in an hour isnt going to do anything for the fish. drops in temp bring
on ich and dropsy. better to gradually lower the temp in a quarantine tank over
several days. Ingrid

GD wrote:
To my knowledge, there has been considerable debate on proper
acclimation procedures for fish over the years.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.