Last year I purchased an OASE no niche Biosys skimmer. I was operating it
from my 1200gph Cal Pump and it barely worked, despite being rated as
operating at 1200.

I just upgraded my pump to a pondmaster 3600. The skimmer works fantasticly
well when hooked up directly to this honker of a pump. It looked like it was
going to pull in all the fish and plants, it was so strong.

However, the moment I split the line to my bottom drain, the skimmer pretty
much stopped. I even shut the bottom drain down to a trickle and the darn
thing still is barely pulling surface water in.

The problem I see is the design. There is too much space between the sleeve
and the float, so the flow of water between the two parts is such that there
is not enough suction to pull the float ring down below the surface. I could
possibly build up the sleeve with duct tape, but what a bother, and who
knows how long that will last in a wet environment.

I've about had it with this thing, and wondered if others had a similar
experience and/or if there is another design of no niche skimmer that works
on much less water draw.

Remydog

A few questions. Water is being pushed out the bottom drain by the weight of
the water. You have to create a suction of sorts to get the water to flow
into the skimmer. That is why you have such an imbalance. I had one of these
last year and moved on I did not have the best experience same as you. What
you can try doing is making the four air holes at the top of the floating
ring closer to the top (now you have less trapped air). As you have said the
top ring floats and the pump has to pull water over. This worked for me.

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:sppkc.2780$kh4.176220@attbi_s52...
Last year I purchased an OASE no niche Biosys skimmer. I was operating it
from my 1200gph Cal Pump and it barely worked, despite being rated as
operating at 1200.

I just upgraded my pump to a pondmaster 3600. The skimmer works
fantasticly
well when hooked up directly to this honker of a pump. It looked like it
was
going to pull in all the fish and plants, it was so strong.

However, the moment I split the line to my bottom drain, the skimmer
pretty
much stopped. I even shut the bottom drain down to a trickle and the darn
thing still is barely pulling surface water in.

The problem I see is the design. There is too much space between the
sleeve
and the float, so the flow of water between the two parts is such that
there
is not enough suction to pull the float ring down below the surface. I
could
possibly build up the sleeve with duct tape, but what a bother, and who
knows how long that will last in a wet environment.

I've about had it with this thing, and wondered if others had a similar
experience and/or if there is another design of no niche skimmer that
works
on much less water draw.

Remydog

Thanks. I was thinking about that, also, but worried that I would then have
the ring totally submerged all the time.

"Mickey" wrote in message
...
A few questions. Water is being pushed out the bottom drain by the weight
of
the water. You have to create a suction of sorts to get the water to flow
into the skimmer. That is why you have such an imbalance. I had one of
these
last year and moved on I did not have the best experience same as you.
What
you can try doing is making the four air holes at the top of the floating
ring closer to the top (now you have less trapped air). As you have said
the
top ring floats and the pump has to pull water over. This worked for me.

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:sppkc.2780$kh4.176220@attbi_s52...
Last year I purchased an OASE no niche Biosys skimmer. I was operating
it
from my 1200gph Cal Pump and it barely worked, despite being rated as
operating at 1200.

I just upgraded my pump to a pondmaster 3600. The skimmer works
fantasticly
well when hooked up directly to this honker of a pump. It looked like it
was
going to pull in all the fish and plants, it was so strong.

However, the moment I split the line to my bottom drain, the skimmer
pretty
much stopped. I even shut the bottom drain down to a trickle and the
darn
thing still is barely pulling surface water in.

The problem I see is the design. There is too much space between the
sleeve
and the float, so the flow of water between the two parts is such that
there
is not enough suction to pull the float ring down below the surface. I
could
possibly build up the sleeve with duct tape, but what a bother, and who
knows how long that will last in a wet environment.

I've about had it with this thing, and wondered if others had a similar
experience and/or if there is another design of no niche skimmer that
works
on much less water draw.

Remydog

That is strange. I have been using the No niche for almost a year and it
perform the way it should.
My pond is above ground and the pump is a Sequence 750( 4200seq12 ). It
suppose to pump 2300 GPH
but I think on my setup, it pump about 1000 GPH. The leave trap have 2" in
and out. The No Niche goes into 1.5 " PVC and the bottom drain go via 3"
pipes into the filter.
The filter out is also 1.5" and it combine with the No Niche 1.5" using Ts
and elbows into the 2" inlet of
the leave trap. Water level is about 18" above the pump.

I think the way No Niche works is the internal water level is being sucked
low by the pump and cause the float to drop,
allowing surface water to enter the chamber.

Steve


"Remydog" wrote in message
news:l%rkc.2967$0H1.305198@attbi_s54...
Thanks. I was thinking about that, also, but worried that I would then
have
the ring totally submerged all the time.

"Mickey" wrote in message
...
A few questions. Water is being pushed out the bottom drain by the
weight
of
the water. You have to create a suction of sorts to get the water to
flow
into the skimmer. That is why you have such an imbalance. I had one of
these
last year and moved on I did not have the best experience same as you.
What
you can try doing is making the four air holes at the top of the
floating
ring closer to the top (now you have less trapped air). As you have said
the
top ring floats and the pump has to pull water over. This worked for me.

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:sppkc.2780$kh4.176220@attbi_s52...
Last year I purchased an OASE no niche Biosys skimmer. I was operating
it
from my 1200gph Cal Pump and it barely worked, despite being rated as
operating at 1200.

I just upgraded my pump to a pondmaster 3600. The skimmer works
fantasticly
well when hooked up directly to this honker of a pump. It looked like
it
was
going to pull in all the fish and plants, it was so strong.

However, the moment I split the line to my bottom drain, the skimmer
pretty
much stopped. I even shut the bottom drain down to a trickle and the
darn
thing still is barely pulling surface water in.

The problem I see is the design. There is too much space between the
sleeve
and the float, so the flow of water between the two parts is such that
there
is not enough suction to pull the float ring down below the surface. I
could
possibly build up the sleeve with duct tape, but what a bother, and
who
knows how long that will last in a wet environment.

I've about had it with this thing, and wondered if others had a
similar
experience and/or if there is another design of no niche skimmer that
works
on much less water draw.

Remydog

Mickey,

Would my results change if I raised the pump off the bottom so that it was
pulling water uphill from the bottom drain? Would that help overcome the
pressure differential?

MSK

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:l%rkc.2967$0H1.305198@attbi_s54...
Thanks. I was thinking about that, also, but worried that I would then
have
the ring totally submerged all the time.

"Mickey" wrote in message
...
A few questions. Water is being pushed out the bottom drain by the
weight
of
the water. You have to create a suction of sorts to get the water to
flow
into the skimmer. That is why you have such an imbalance. I had one of
these
last year and moved on I did not have the best experience same as you.
What
you can try doing is making the four air holes at the top of the
floating
ring closer to the top (now you have less trapped air). As you have said
the
top ring floats and the pump has to pull water over. This worked for me.

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:sppkc.2780$kh4.176220@attbi_s52...
Last year I purchased an OASE no niche Biosys skimmer. I was operating
it
from my 1200gph Cal Pump and it barely worked, despite being rated as
operating at 1200.

I just upgraded my pump to a pondmaster 3600. The skimmer works
fantasticly
well when hooked up directly to this honker of a pump. It looked like
it
was
going to pull in all the fish and plants, it was so strong.

However, the moment I split the line to my bottom drain, the skimmer
pretty
much stopped. I even shut the bottom drain down to a trickle and the
darn
thing still is barely pulling surface water in.

The problem I see is the design. There is too much space between the
sleeve
and the float, so the flow of water between the two parts is such that
there
is not enough suction to pull the float ring down below the surface. I
could
possibly build up the sleeve with duct tape, but what a bother, and
who
knows how long that will last in a wet environment.

I've about had it with this thing, and wondered if others had a
similar
experience and/or if there is another design of no niche skimmer that
works
on much less water draw.

Remydog

http://www.mdminc.com/Sequence_750.htm

This is the pump that I have the 4200 version. I am not sure raising the
pump will do any good. You still have to pull water into the skimmer, while
the bottom drains pushed into the pump by the weight of the water.

How are you turning the water flow down. I was using a valve and just kept
closing until it worked. I was never able to get a satisfactory flow until I
opened up the air holes in the lid. The other thing that helped was when I
put the top ring on I would push it below the water level on purpose and try
to purge some of the extra air out. Do you still have your old pump? Can you
use it for the bottom drain and the new pump for the skimmer?

Something else to think about is how your water return to the pond? You most
likely are not getting the max rated flow do to any plumbing you have. The
max rated flow is hooked to a water source with nothing connected to the
discharge side to create pressure. Can you measure the actual GPH by
measuring how long it takes to fill up a 5 gallon bucket? Lets take your
pump for example at 3600 GPH or 60 GPM or 1 GPS you should fill a 5 gallon
bucket in 5 seconds.

Let me know how that turns out you might be surprised.


http://www.pondusa.com/pumpssup.htm


"Remydog" wrote in message
news:M2Mkc.4384$_41.216376@attbi_s02...
Mickey,

Would my results change if I raised the pump off the bottom so that it was
pulling water uphill from the bottom drain? Would that help overcome the
pressure differential?

MSK

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:l%rkc.2967$0H1.305198@attbi_s54...
Thanks. I was thinking about that, also, but worried that I would then
have
the ring totally submerged all the time.

"Mickey" wrote in message
...
A few questions. Water is being pushed out the bottom drain by the
weight
of
the water. You have to create a suction of sorts to get the water to
flow
into the skimmer. That is why you have such an imbalance. I had one of
these
last year and moved on I did not have the best experience same as you.
What
you can try doing is making the four air holes at the top of the
floating
ring closer to the top (now you have less trapped air). As you have
said
the
top ring floats and the pump has to pull water over. This worked for
me.

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:sppkc.2780$kh4.176220@attbi_s52...
Last year I purchased an OASE no niche Biosys skimmer. I was
operating
it
from my 1200gph Cal Pump and it barely worked, despite being rated
as
operating at 1200.

I just upgraded my pump to a pondmaster 3600. The skimmer works
fantasticly
well when hooked up directly to this honker of a pump. It looked
like
it
was
going to pull in all the fish and plants, it was so strong.

However, the moment I split the line to my bottom drain, the skimmer
pretty
much stopped. I even shut the bottom drain down to a trickle and the
darn
thing still is barely pulling surface water in.

The problem I see is the design. There is too much space between the
sleeve
and the float, so the flow of water between the two parts is such
that
there
is not enough suction to pull the float ring down below the surface.
I
could
possibly build up the sleeve with duct tape, but what a bother, and
who
knows how long that will last in a wet environment.

I've about had it with this thing, and wondered if others had a
similar
experience and/or if there is another design of no niche skimmer
that
works
on much less water draw.

Remydog

I have a 1-1/2 inch ball valve closed to just a sliver for the bottom drain.
It is attached through a 1.5 inch T and various adaptors to make it down to
the 1 inch inlet for the pump. There are a few inches of 1.25 inch flex
between the outlet on the valve and the strainer.

The skimmer is also pulling through 1.25 flex, but a distance of perhaps 8
feet and there are other fittings along the way -- I have an intermediate T
that I can use to attach a vacuum hose for cleaning.

I wrapped black electrical tape several times around a couple inches below
the top of the inside pipe on the skimmer. That reduces the area between the
float and the pipe, and thus puts more drag on the float. It also reduces
the rocking back and forth of the float. Result: It is now working
reasonably well. Not a super rush over the lip, but enough to get most of
the small debris into the mouth. Leaves make it in eventually, but tend to
collected around the outside.

Like you, I turn the float upside down and then quickly put it on to dump
all the air out of the top.

When you say open the air holes, do you mean that you made them larger?



"Mickey" wrote in message
...
http://www.mdminc.com/Sequence_750.htm

This is the pump that I have the 4200 version. I am not sure raising the
pump will do any good. You still have to pull water into the skimmer,
while
the bottom drains pushed into the pump by the weight of the water.

How are you turning the water flow down. I was using a valve and just kept
closing until it worked. I was never able to get a satisfactory flow until
I
opened up the air holes in the lid. The other thing that helped was when I
put the top ring on I would push it below the water level on purpose and
try
to purge some of the extra air out. Do you still have your old pump? Can
you
use it for the bottom drain and the new pump for the skimmer?

Something else to think about is how your water return to the pond? You
most
likely are not getting the max rated flow do to any plumbing you have. The
max rated flow is hooked to a water source with nothing connected to the
discharge side to create pressure. Can you measure the actual GPH by
measuring how long it takes to fill up a 5 gallon bucket? Lets take your
pump for example at 3600 GPH or 60 GPM or 1 GPS you should fill a 5
gallon
bucket in 5 seconds.

Let me know how that turns out you might be surprised.


http://www.pondusa.com/pumpssup.htm


"Remydog" wrote in message
news:M2Mkc.4384$_41.216376@attbi_s02...
Mickey,

Would my results change if I raised the pump off the bottom so that it
was
pulling water uphill from the bottom drain? Would that help overcome the
pressure differential?

MSK

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:l%rkc.2967$0H1.305198@attbi_s54...
Thanks. I was thinking about that, also, but worried that I would then
have
the ring totally submerged all the time.

"Mickey" wrote in message
...
A few questions. Water is being pushed out the bottom drain by the
weight
of
the water. You have to create a suction of sorts to get the water to
flow
into the skimmer. That is why you have such an imbalance. I had one
of
these
last year and moved on I did not have the best experience same as
you.
What
you can try doing is making the four air holes at the top of the
floating
ring closer to the top (now you have less trapped air). As you have
said
the
top ring floats and the pump has to pull water over. This worked for
me.

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:sppkc.2780$kh4.176220@attbi_s52...
Last year I purchased an OASE no niche Biosys skimmer. I was
operating
it
from my 1200gph Cal Pump and it barely worked, despite being rated
as
operating at 1200.

I just upgraded my pump to a pondmaster 3600. The skimmer works
fantasticly
well when hooked up directly to this honker of a pump. It looked
like
it
was
going to pull in all the fish and plants, it was so strong.

However, the moment I split the line to my bottom drain, the
skimmer
pretty
much stopped. I even shut the bottom drain down to a trickle and
the
darn
thing still is barely pulling surface water in.

The problem I see is the design. There is too much space between
the
sleeve
and the float, so the flow of water between the two parts is such
that
there
is not enough suction to pull the float ring down below the
surface.
I
could
possibly build up the sleeve with duct tape, but what a bother,
and
who
knows how long that will last in a wet environment.

I've about had it with this thing, and wondered if others had a
similar
experience and/or if there is another design of no niche skimmer
that
works
on much less water draw.

Remydog

If I remember correctly they are a rectangle and I cut them up so they were
closer to the top. The result is less air trapped in the top so it can be
pulled down easier. I had a problem with mine rocking also. Make sure the
floating ring does not stick with the reduced clearance caused by the tape.
Mine would get stuck up without any help and cause my pump to run dry.


"Remydog" wrote in message
news:EfRkc.5288$Ia6.587539@attbi_s03...
I have a 1-1/2 inch ball valve closed to just a sliver for the bottom
drain.
It is attached through a 1.5 inch T and various adaptors to make it down
to
the 1 inch inlet for the pump. There are a few inches of 1.25 inch flex
between the outlet on the valve and the strainer.

The skimmer is also pulling through 1.25 flex, but a distance of perhaps 8
feet and there are other fittings along the way -- I have an intermediate
T
that I can use to attach a vacuum hose for cleaning.

I wrapped black electrical tape several times around a couple inches below
the top of the inside pipe on the skimmer. That reduces the area between
the
float and the pipe, and thus puts more drag on the float. It also reduces
the rocking back and forth of the float. Result: It is now working
reasonably well. Not a super rush over the lip, but enough to get most of
the small debris into the mouth. Leaves make it in eventually, but tend to
collected around the outside.

Like you, I turn the float upside down and then quickly put it on to dump
all the air out of the top.

When you say open the air holes, do you mean that you made them larger?



"Mickey" wrote in message
...
http://www.mdminc.com/Sequence_750.htm

This is the pump that I have the 4200 version. I am not sure raising the
pump will do any good. You still have to pull water into the skimmer,
while
the bottom drains pushed into the pump by the weight of the water.

How are you turning the water flow down. I was using a valve and just
kept
closing until it worked. I was never able to get a satisfactory flow
until
I
opened up the air holes in the lid. The other thing that helped was when
I
put the top ring on I would push it below the water level on purpose and
try
to purge some of the extra air out. Do you still have your old pump? Can
you
use it for the bottom drain and the new pump for the skimmer?

Something else to think about is how your water return to the pond? You
most
likely are not getting the max rated flow do to any plumbing you have.
The
max rated flow is hooked to a water source with nothing connected to the
discharge side to create pressure. Can you measure the actual GPH by
measuring how long it takes to fill up a 5 gallon bucket? Lets take your
pump for example at 3600 GPH or 60 GPM or 1 GPS you should fill a 5
gallon
bucket in 5 seconds.

Let me know how that turns out you might be surprised.


http://www.pondusa.com/pumpssup.htm


"Remydog" wrote in message
news:M2Mkc.4384$_41.216376@attbi_s02...
Mickey,

Would my results change if I raised the pump off the bottom so that it
was
pulling water uphill from the bottom drain? Would that help overcome
the
pressure differential?

MSK

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:l%rkc.2967$0H1.305198@attbi_s54...
Thanks. I was thinking about that, also, but worried that I would
then
have
the ring totally submerged all the time.

"Mickey" wrote in message
...
A few questions. Water is being pushed out the bottom drain by the
weight
of
the water. You have to create a suction of sorts to get the water
to
flow
into the skimmer. That is why you have such an imbalance. I had
one
of
these
last year and moved on I did not have the best experience same as
you.
What
you can try doing is making the four air holes at the top of the
floating
ring closer to the top (now you have less trapped air). As you
have
said
the
top ring floats and the pump has to pull water over. This worked
for
me.

"Remydog" wrote in message
news:sppkc.2780$kh4.176220@attbi_s52...
Last year I purchased an OASE no niche Biosys skimmer. I was
operating
it
from my 1200gph Cal Pump and it barely worked, despite being
rated
as
operating at 1200.

I just upgraded my pump to a pondmaster 3600. The skimmer works
fantasticly
well when hooked up directly to this honker of a pump. It looked
like
it
was
going to pull in all the fish and plants, it was so strong.

However, the moment I split the line to my bottom drain, the
skimmer
pretty
much stopped. I even shut the bottom drain down to a trickle and
the
darn
thing still is barely pulling surface water in.

The problem I see is the design. There is too much space between
the
sleeve
and the float, so the flow of water between the two parts is
such
that
there
is not enough suction to pull the float ring down below the
surface.
I
could
possibly build up the sleeve with duct tape, but what a bother,
and
who
knows how long that will last in a wet environment.

I've about had it with this thing, and wondered if others had a
similar
experience and/or if there is another design of no niche skimmer
that
works
on much less water draw.

Remydog

Ditto, on clipping the rectangle up closer to the top edge. I'm running
mine, combo bottom drain & skimmer at about 1,300 gph, and it pulls in
small leaves. In the winter I run the skimmer alone at only 300 gph, this
is to keep blowing dust off the surface, since the ponds are screened from
fall to spring.

The Demon Pond skimmer/bottom drain combo are running with a pump pushing
2,000 gph approx. it had to be clipped too, to function at it's best. I
think one must really have good flow to get them to work really well, big
leaves, etc. I know I've seen some working that way, I just haven't
bothered to ask how big their pumps are. Guess I'll ask next time. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design, or the Demon Pond:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

On Sat, 1 May 2004 15:22:47 -0500, "Mickey" wrote:

If I remember correctly they are a rectangle and I cut them up so they were
closer to the top. The result is less air trapped in the top so it can be
pulled down easier. I had a problem with mine rocking also. Make sure the
floating ring does not stick with the reduced clearance caused by the tape.
Mine would get stuck up without any help and cause my pump to run dry.

If one of you could possibly take a closeup photo and email it to me, that
would be appreciated. There are no rectangular holes on mine. Rather, there
are four small round holes about 3/4 inches below the top inside the float
ring.

I want to be sure I know exactly what to enlarge.

MSK
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
s.com...
Ditto, on clipping the rectangle up closer to the top edge. I'm running
mine, combo bottom drain & skimmer at about 1,300 gph, and it pulls in
small leaves. In the winter I run the skimmer alone at only 300 gph, this
is to keep blowing dust off the surface, since the ponds are screened from
fall to spring.

The Demon Pond skimmer/bottom drain combo are running with a pump pushing
2,000 gph approx. it had to be clipped too, to function at it's best. I
think one must really have good flow to get them to work really well, big
leaves, etc. I know I've seen some working that way, I just haven't
bothered to ask how big their pumps are. Guess I'll ask next time. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design, or the Demon Pond:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

On Sat, 1 May 2004 15:22:47 -0500, "Mickey" wrote:

If I remember correctly they are a rectangle and I cut them up so they
were
closer to the top. The result is less air trapped in the top so it can be
pulled down easier. I had a problem with mine rocking also. Make sure the
floating ring does not stick with the reduced clearance caused by the
tape.
Mine would get stuck up without any help and cause my pump to run dry.

On Mon, 03 May 2004 10:16:51 GMT, "Remydog" wrote:

If one of you could possibly take a closeup photo and email it to me, that
would be appreciated. There are no rectangular holes on mine. Rather, there
are four small round holes about 3/4 inches below the top inside the float
ring.

Don't have a digital camera, but being black not sure how well it would
show up. The holes must be a new design, I'd just cut straight down from
two of them on opposite sides. Water tension is probably strong enough the
air might not bubble out of them, depending on how small they are. I'll
have to look closer at my skimmer to see just how close the notches are to
the top of the float. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)