Cichlidiot,

The reason you probably don't have any problem with the
mints is that they don't use essential oils they use
only synthetics to reproduce the smell and taste.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------

Cichlidiot wrote:
Kay wrote:

Tom,
I remember when I first found out about some of these oils. I was at a
childs b-day party with a horrible headache. I asked my sister in law
for something for it and she asked me to try lavender. I thought she was
a loon and that the lavender would make it worse. It worked for me.
After that I tried more. Came across tea tree about 10 years ago. again
I guess its different if there is an allergy.


Heh, I'm allergic to lavender as well, about the same symptoms as Melafix.
Reddened skin with contact, sneezing my fool head off and burning, watery
eyes like crazy. I can even tell when the LFS has used Melafix before the
smell hits me as my eyes start watering and my nose stuffs up. The
symptoms occur even when I am taking allergy medicines (which control my
mite/insect allergy, otherwise I'd be sneezing constantly). I do have
severe allergy problems though. You should see how my left arm looks right
now from Monday's recycling project... little red welts all over from the
bug exposure when I recycled 2 months worth of papers that had been
stacked in a corner. And I even took precautions to take my meds a couple
hours before and clean up right after to minimize allergen exposure, but
once I get bit, I usually get welts. At least it wasn't fleas, then I'd
have red scars for months.

Problem is that most "standard" skin tests for allergies in the USA don't
include very many ornamental plants unless they're a major wind-born
pollen producer. Also, they don't test plant oils, at least not in the
test I took. So people who might have these allergies could not just go to
a doctor for a skin test to rule them out (the blood test requires recent
exposure to the allergen to register the antibodies in the blood). I
actually registered below threshold on many of the pollen tests, but get
me around any strong perfumes, aroma therapy, essential oils, etc and I
start stuffing up within minutes. So I think a good thing to ask people
before advocating essential oil use is if they've had allergy problems
with perfumes or aroma therapies, then warn them to proceed with caution
if they have. The mints by the way are usually fine for me, it's just the
teas and lavender I've had problems with, along with rose.

I think lots of animals can carry just about anything that a snail can.
And being a breeder for money it would make sense to keep to a single
specie enviorment, but I refuse to believe a snail on the average can
kill a fish by hitching a ride on a plant from a LFS.
Kay

Hmmm, well if you "refuse to believe" what's the point of this
conversation? ;o)

I purchased some trap door snails from a local dealer, don't know where she
got them, don't know if she added water from her pond to their small
holding tub under her deck, don't know if some bird pooped in there..... I
brought them home and dumped several of them in an aquarium, and the rest
went into a fishless holding tank outside. The goldfish in the aquarium got
blackspot and died. Those snails were the only new thing added to the tank
other than tap water w/dechlor.

I don't buy snails any more, too long a quarantine time to get the black
spot parasite out of them in a fishless environment.

Personally, I haven't knowingly noticed a problem from the average pond
snail, but sticking my head in the sand isn't gonna prevent something if it
is there. I treat new plants with a strong dose of PP, knocks off of the
adult snails and kills any parasites, with the hope that any eggs that
might survive, hatch parasite free till eaten. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Tom,
I have family memembers alergic to some oils but so far they are lucky
enough to find another one to replace the one causisng problems. I also
have used tea tree oil in an aquarium to.

Kay



Tom L. La Bron wrote:
Kay,

There are always going to be people allergic to something. I am on
several soap listservs and there is always someone who is allergic to
something, but that doesn't make it bad for the rest of us. I'm sorry,
but that it their problem to read the label and be careful. Most 100%
essential oils can be dangerous if used improperly, Wintergreen being
one of the worse of them all, which makes using Wintergreen fragrance
oil a better choice.

I have been using Tea Tree oil for my fish long before Melafix, so I
know personally it works, but before Melafix I never suggested any one
use it, because Tea Tree oil can be used improperly. What I find
interesting is that it is referred to as snail-oil when there has been a
lot of research done with it, just not in the states, because of its
herbal connection. We here in the states are too hooked on scientific
meds, which for most part come from natural sources to begin with, but
that information is very seldom released.

I make an eye-pillow with a combination of herbals and spices that works
great for headaches and another one as a sleep aid. But are all
labeled, that if you have any plant allergies you need to see the
ingredient listing.

Tom L.L.

Kay wrote:

Tom,
I remember when I first found out about some of these oils. I was at a
childs b-day party with a horrible headache. I asked my sister in law
for something for it and she asked me to try lavender. I thought she
was a loon and that the lavender would make it worse. It worked for
me. After that I tried more. Came across tea tree about 10 years ago.
again I guess its different if there is an allergy.



Kay and BV,

If you take the time to read all that she has on her site what she
uses as examples like the people allowing their baby to consume pure
tea tree essential oil. (Melafix is only 1% tea tree oil) Nothing in
the adverse effects area deals with fish; just Humans, dogs, cats
and birds. The one that is really interesting is the bird lady who
figured that if a little worked a lot would work better and killed
her bird. Excuse me, who's fault was that. I.E., Golly gee, if 250
mg of antiboitic is working pretty good then 2000mg should work even
better.

Then there people like Cichlodot that is allergic to it, but you find
that every where. Cottonpick if you give a teaspoon of salt to a
young baby it will kill it, but do we stop using salt. Give me a break.

Just some more of Ingrid's misuse of information trying to make a
point that isn't valid just her opinion. Personally I think that it
is great stuff and if it will work on Discus fry, it has got to be
good and mild, because there is hardly any med you can use on Discus
fry if they get sick, virtually everything kills them. I use it when
an if it is needed as a first line of defense should something show
up on my fish, and I certainly use it on new fish when they go into
quarantine as one of the main meds that I use first on quarantined
fish for 14 days when the fish come into my possession and go under
quarantine whether they show any bad signs or not.

It is good stuff. I use it in my soaps also.

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------------------------
Kay wrote:

BenignVanilla wrote:

"Kay" wrote in message
news:y85rc.85662$iF6.7299279@attbi_s02...

Tom,

She says she has no time to do the compling of all the sources. I
would
be interested in a website that has actual discredit the artilces
that
have no basis. Like the tea tree oil statement.





snip

Ooh, ooh. What's the tea tree oil statement? I am a big TTO fan.

BV.



Here is the link. I think its totally false. I am a fan of melafix.

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/...L,%20Melaleuca


Kay

Oh my roses too! I feel for you!

Kay


Cichlidiot wrote:

Kay wrote:

Tom,
I remember when I first found out about some of these oils. I was at a
childs b-day party with a horrible headache. I asked my sister in law
for something for it and she asked me to try lavender. I thought she was
a loon and that the lavender would make it worse. It worked for me.
After that I tried more. Came across tea tree about 10 years ago. again
I guess its different if there is an allergy.


Heh, I'm allergic to lavender as well, about the same symptoms as Melafix.
Reddened skin with contact, sneezing my fool head off and burning, watery
eyes like crazy. I can even tell when the LFS has used Melafix before the
smell hits me as my eyes start watering and my nose stuffs up. The
symptoms occur even when I am taking allergy medicines (which control my
mite/insect allergy, otherwise I'd be sneezing constantly). I do have
severe allergy problems though. You should see how my left arm looks right
now from Monday's recycling project... little red welts all over from the
bug exposure when I recycled 2 months worth of papers that had been
stacked in a corner. And I even took precautions to take my meds a couple
hours before and clean up right after to minimize allergen exposure, but
once I get bit, I usually get welts. At least it wasn't fleas, then I'd
have red scars for months.

Problem is that most "standard" skin tests for allergies in the USA don't
include very many ornamental plants unless they're a major wind-born
pollen producer. Also, they don't test plant oils, at least not in the
test I took. So people who might have these allergies could not just go to
a doctor for a skin test to rule them out (the blood test requires recent
exposure to the allergen to register the antibodies in the blood). I
actually registered below threshold on many of the pollen tests, but get
me around any strong perfumes, aroma therapy, essential oils, etc and I
start stuffing up within minutes. So I think a good thing to ask people
before advocating essential oil use is if they've had allergy problems
with perfumes or aroma therapies, then warn them to proceed with caution
if they have. The mints by the way are usually fine for me, it's just the
teas and lavender I've had problems with, along with rose.

"Tom L. La Bron" wrote in message
...
Kay and BV,

If you take the time to read all that she has on her
site what she uses as examples like the people allowing
their baby to consume pure tea tree essential oil.
snip

I am very interested in this topic because my wife makes a living marketing
Tea tree oil products. We use nothing but these products in our home for
numerous reasons, so I was wondering what the story was. I'll take my kids
drinking some of these products over any other house hold cleaner, any day.

BV.

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
snip
Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I prefer to use medications for their
proven purposes and not as a cure-all snake oil for things which they are
not intended.
snip

I think this is Tom's point, and I agree on all accounts, and for all
treatments. Except for water, you can't have too much clean water.

Unfortunately, many aquarists seem to be treating Melafix as
some panacea for all that ails fish, which just is not true.
snip

Which is also my fear of Salt...Just google salt up on rec.ponds and you'll
see many ponders saying things like, "My Koi ate a piece of frog today...so
dosed with salt to be sure his stomach is OK."

snip

Really, if you want the best "magical" cure for most that ails fish,
nothing beats keeping the water clean with regular maintenance.

That may be the only generalization that I'll agree to whole heartedly. Take
care of your water, not your fish. Who said that years ago?

snip

BV.

wrote in message
...
Absolutely. Pristine water. I am trying to convince people that a
"hospital" or
quarantine tank should be a minimum of a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub (or
larger like 100
gallon stock tank for koi).
And the best "meds" for abraded skin is a bit of salt. Just like we are
told to
gargle with salt water for canker sore or sore throat.

Ingrid

Ingrid,

You tend not to respond to my posts so I don't know if I am killfiled or
what, but as far as Salt is concerned, I'd love to see a treatise on the
subject. And don't get me wrong, I am not being a smart-ass. I would
seriously love to read/love to publish on my site anything someone could
write on the pro's/con's of salt, the effects, the dangers, the benefits.

I think such a document would be a great reference, and I think since you
are very pro-salt you would be a great source to begin it.

What do you think?

BV.

"Kay" wrote in message
news:KjJrc.22693$zw.4364@attbi_s01...
snip
I do use tea
tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was allergic
then that would be another story. We respect it and use it carefully
like medicine.
snip

My wife works with (a la Mary Kay) a company that makes household cleaning
products, and hygiene products that are all based on TT Oil. After using
them for a year, we would never use anything else. They work better then the
supermarket brands, smell better, are safer, get delivered to your house,
etc.

We are definately a TT Oil household.

BV.

"Tom L. La Bron" wrote in message
...
Kay,

There are always going to be people allergic to
something. I am on several soap listservs and there is
always someone who is allergic to something, but that
doesn't make it bad for the rest of us.
snip

I know this will sound like a shameless plug, and I guess it is...My wife
has a customer (she markets TT Oil household products) that is allergic to
100's of things...she loves the TT Oil products without scent.

BV.

Benign Vanilla wrote:
You tend not to respond to my posts so I don't know if I am killfiled or
what, but as far as Salt is concerned, I'd love to see a treatise on the
subject. And don't get me wrong, I am not being a smart-ass. I would
seriously love to read/love to publish on my site anything someone could
write on the pro's/con's of salt, the effects, the dangers, the benefits.

I think such a document would be a great reference, and I think since you
are very pro-salt you would be a great source to begin it.

What do you think?

BV.

About the only thing I consistantly use salt for (and know that it works)
is to counteract nitrite poisoning. The chloride ions compete with the
nitrite ions for uptake across the gills. By preventing nitrite uptake,
the nitrite can't bind to the hemoglobin in the fish to form methemoglobin
(which can't transport oxygen). The actual amount of salt needed is very
low. I use 1 teaspoon per 10-20g per 1ppm nitrite. The websites I've found
have disagreed on the exact amount needed, so I just have my own rule of
thumb that's probably overkill, but far less than many recommend for wound
treatment. This has saved fish of mine in the past when I went through
cycles or mini-cycles, had filter crashes, etc.

Benign Vanilla wrote:

I know this will sound like a shameless plug, and I guess it is...My wife
has a customer (she markets TT Oil household products) that is allergic to
100's of things...she loves the TT Oil products without scent.

Well, it all depends on the product and type of allergies too. Like tanic
acid products derived from teas are really good at denaturing mite
proteins and other allergens, so spritzing carpets and furniture with such
would actually improve things for someone with such allergies. As long as
they aren't allergic to the cleaning product, heh.

What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for hot
spots but what else can it be used for?






On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:32:33 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote:


"Kay" wrote in message
news:KjJrc.22693$zw.4364@attbi_s01...
snip
I do use tea
tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was
allergic
then that would be another story. We respect it and use it
carefully
like medicine.
snip

My wife works with (a la Mary Kay) a company that makes household
cleaning
products, and hygiene products that are all based on TT Oil. After
using
them for a year, we would never use anything else. They work better
then the
supermarket brands, smell better, are safer, get delivered to your
house,
etc.

We are definately a TT Oil household.

BV.

"jammer" wrote in message
...

What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for hot
spots but what else can it be used for?
snip

As it relates to ponds, nothing. In my home, every product we use has TT Oil
in it. Every single one. We no longer use any bleaches or other similar
products in our home. I don't want to SPAM the group, so if you are
interested email me directly.

BV.

I put it on cuts or scrapes. I brush my teeth with it, I mix it in
toothpaste. My husband wears work boots and he uses it on his feet to
advoid any athelete's foot or fungus in the summer it also treats any
foot or toe nail fungus If my basement floods I have a diffuser and I
diffuse tea tree after the water goes down to kill mold and fungus that
might be a result of the water. After surjury I used it on my staples
and after they took the staples out.

Kay

jammer wrote:
What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for hot
spots but what else can it be used for?






On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:32:33 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote:


"Kay" wrote in message
news:KjJrc.22693$zw.4364@attbi_s01...
snip

I do use tea
tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was

allergic

then that would be another story. We respect it and use it

carefully

like medicine.

snip

My wife works with (a la Mary Kay) a company that makes household

cleaning

products, and hygiene products that are all based on TT Oil. After

using

them for a year, we would never use anything else. They work better

then the

supermarket brands, smell better, are safer, get delivered to your

house,

etc.

We are definately a TT Oil household.

BV.

OK ... now my curiosity has the better of me. Where can I buy some
of this miracle TT oil? You say your wife sells it, BV? or Kay,
where do you buy it?

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Kay" wrote in message
news:k12tc.4389$Ly.1091@attbi_s01...
I put it on cuts or scrapes. I brush my teeth with it, I mix it in
toothpaste. My husband wears work boots and he uses it on his feet to
advoid any athelete's foot or fungus in the summer it also treats any
foot or toe nail fungus If my basement floods I have a diffuser and I
diffuse tea tree after the water goes down to kill mold and fungus that
might be a result of the water. After surjury I used it on my staples
and after they took the staples out.

Kay

jammer wrote:
What are you all using TT oil for? I have some i use on my dog for hot
spots but what else can it be used for?






On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:32:33 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote:


"Kay" wrote in message
news:KjJrc.22693$zw.4364@attbi_s01...
snip

I do use tea
tree oil and my family for years personally. Of coarse if I was

allergic

then that would be another story. We respect it and use it

carefully

like medicine.

snip

My wife works with (a la Mary Kay) a company that makes household

cleaning

products, and hygiene products that are all based on TT Oil. After

using

them for a year, we would never use anything else. They work better

then the

supermarket brands, smell better, are safer, get delivered to your

house,

etc.

We are definately a TT Oil household.

BV.