Rod really doesn't know what he is talking about when
he refers to Morton, because Morton has not used YPS
since the late 1940's. I asked Morton, so I know.
Tom L.L.

By golly you're right Tom, my Morton's iodized table salt doesn't show it
on the ingredients list. But you're kind of missing the point, in that we
were talking about the anti-caking chemical and its possible toxic
relationship. In the future I will delete his 1 sentence reference to
Morton's. ) ~ jan

----------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:42:58 GMT, "ciel" wrote:

YPS (yellow prussiate of soda, sodium ferrocyanide) is a common
anti-caking additive in granulated table salt. It is potentially toxic to fish.

Table salt may contain up to 13 ppm YPS, and does not have to be
listed on the label, per FDA regulation (21 CFR 172.490).

When exposed to sunlight, ultraviolet light rapidly photolyzes YPS to
free cyanide. US EPA lists cyanide as toxic to fish at 0.022 ppm
(acute toxicity) to 0.005 ppm (chronic toxicity, "96 hr LC50" means it
kills half the fish in 3 days). Fortunately, cyanide isn't persistent; it
evaporates readily and bacteria can destroy it.

At the oft-recommended 0.1% salinity, salt with 13 ppm YPS would
put 0.013 ppm YPS in the pond, which could photolyze to 0.0044 ppm
HCN, which is near the toxic level.

If higher salinities were needed for disease treatment, cyanide could
exceed toxic levels.

If, on the other hand, lower salinities were used (e.g. 100 ppm for
prevention of nitrite toxicity), the low cyanide level would not be of
concern.

I use solar salt crystals, coarse 1/4 to 1/2 inch in size. It doesn't seem
to contain YPS (humidity causes it to fuse into a lump, which I break up
with a hammer or boot). An 80 pound bag was $6 on sale at Lowe's.
- Rod

Personally, I get Morton's water softener salt in the blue bag without
conditioners, 99.9% pure I think it says on it, no anti-caking chemicals
and only ~$4/40 lbs. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Rod really doesn't know what he is talking about when
he refers to Morton, because Morton has not used YPS
since the late 1940's. I asked Morton, so I know.
Tom L.L.

By golly you're right Tom, my Morton's iodized table salt doesn't show it
on the ingredients list. But you're kind of missing the point, in that we
were talking about the anti-caking chemical and its possible toxic
relationship. In the future I will delete his 1 sentence reference to
Morton's. ) ~ jan

----------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:42:58 GMT, "ciel" wrote:

YPS (yellow prussiate of soda, sodium ferrocyanide) is a common
anti-caking additive in granulated table salt. It is potentially toxic to fish.

Table salt may contain up to 13 ppm YPS, and does not have to be
listed on the label, per FDA regulation (21 CFR 172.490).

When exposed to sunlight, ultraviolet light rapidly photolyzes YPS to
free cyanide. US EPA lists cyanide as toxic to fish at 0.022 ppm
(acute toxicity) to 0.005 ppm (chronic toxicity, "96 hr LC50" means it
kills half the fish in 3 days). Fortunately, cyanide isn't persistent; it
evaporates readily and bacteria can destroy it.

At the oft-recommended 0.1% salinity, salt with 13 ppm YPS would
put 0.013 ppm YPS in the pond, which could photolyze to 0.0044 ppm
HCN, which is near the toxic level.

If higher salinities were needed for disease treatment, cyanide could
exceed toxic levels.

If, on the other hand, lower salinities were used (e.g. 100 ppm for
prevention of nitrite toxicity), the low cyanide level would not be of
concern.

I use solar salt crystals, coarse 1/4 to 1/2 inch in size. It doesn't seem
to contain YPS (humidity causes it to fuse into a lump, which I break up
with a hammer or boot). An 80 pound bag was $6 on sale at Lowe's.
- Rod

Personally, I get Morton's water softener salt in the blue bag without
conditioners, 99.9% pure I think it says on it, no anti-caking chemicals
and only ~$4/40 lbs. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

So Bill, You kinda don't like some of the sorta long explanations that may
or may not be kinda sorta close to accurate, maybe? ;o) ~ jan

"Newbie Bill" wrote:

I do love Ingrid, and I'm not being facitious. If she knows about it she
responds - no kinda, sorta maybe. Short and sweet 'Thats my story and I'm
sticking to it.' It may not always be the gospel, but it could be one of
the missing books
Bill

wrote in message
...
forget that stuff. get plain old 100% rock salt CRYSTALS not sea salt...
in plastic
bags meant for water softening. it is cheap and great. Ingrid


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

No Jan,

I am not missing the point. I too am talking about the
anti caking ingredients. I do not know where Rod got
his information about YPS, because everything that I
have found says that it is safe because the iron -
cyanide bond is very strong and requires a lot to break
it. The WHO has a lot written up about it and its
non-affect on a variety of digestive systems including
humans. Everywhere I read it says nothing about YPS
being broken down by UV which would mean the bonds in
this molecule would be weak.

In fact the WHO says the following:

Quote:

"BIOCHEMICAL ASPECTS

Because of the strong chemical bond between
iron and the cyanide groups these salts have a low
toxicity.

Unquote.

In any event, this anti-caking material is not used
very much any more.

I question the part of his write up on the UV, because
everything else says that it couldn't happen.

Tom L.L.
----------------------------------
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
Rod really doesn't know what he is talking about when
he refers to Morton, because Morton has not used YPS
since the late 1940's. I asked Morton, so I know.
Tom L.L.


By golly you're right Tom, my Morton's iodized table salt doesn't show it
on the ingredients list. But you're kind of missing the point, in that we
were talking about the anti-caking chemical and its possible toxic
relationship. In the future I will delete his 1 sentence reference to
Morton's. ) ~ jan


----------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:42:58 GMT, "ciel" wrote:

YPS (yellow prussiate of soda, sodium ferrocyanide) is a common
anti-caking additive in granulated table salt. It is potentially toxic to fish.

Table salt may contain up to 13 ppm YPS, and does not have to be
listed on the label, per FDA regulation (21 CFR 172.490).

When exposed to sunlight, ultraviolet light rapidly photolyzes YPS to
free cyanide. US EPA lists cyanide as toxic to fish at 0.022 ppm
(acute toxicity) to 0.005 ppm (chronic toxicity, "96 hr LC50" means it
kills half the fish in 3 days). Fortunately, cyanide isn't persistent; it
evaporates readily and bacteria can destroy it.

At the oft-recommended 0.1% salinity, salt with 13 ppm YPS would
put 0.013 ppm YPS in the pond, which could photolyze to 0.0044 ppm
HCN, which is near the toxic level.

If higher salinities were needed for disease treatment, cyanide could
exceed toxic levels.

If, on the other hand, lower salinities were used (e.g. 100 ppm for
prevention of nitrite toxicity), the low cyanide level would not be of
concern.

I use solar salt crystals, coarse 1/4 to 1/2 inch in size. It doesn't seem
to contain YPS (humidity causes it to fuse into a lump, which I break up
with a hammer or boot). An 80 pound bag was $6 on sale at Lowe's.
- Rod

Personally, I get Morton's water softener salt in the blue bag without
conditioners, 99.9% pure I think it says on it, no anti-caking chemicals
and only ~$4/40 lbs. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

your reference to Farlee was correct, as of course he was. it requires UV light to
break the bond, which is what can happen when the salt is used outdoors. Farlee
outta know, he is a chemist.
Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
Ah, I see. It appeared, to me anyway, just referring to that one sentence
like you did, that it was just that one sentence. K. Point taken. ~ jan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote in message
...
I guess I am even shorter and to the point these days. My mother just
died 5 days
ago after being in the hospital for barely 2 weeks. It was terribly
sudden and
unexpected.

My sympathies Jan
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

Sorry, I meant Ingrid!!!!!!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

"Happy'Cam'per" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
I guess I am even shorter and to the point these days. My mother just
died 5 days
ago after being in the hospital for barely 2 weeks. It was terribly
sudden and
unexpected.

My sympathies Jan
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

Ingrid

Sorry to hear about your mom. I know how hard it is to loose someone.
Jan
"Our Pond" Page
http://hometown.aol.com/pinkpggy/index.html

My Condolences to you and your family over the passing
of your mother. I remember you telling of your
mother's garden when you were on the Goldfish list.

Respectfully,

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------------
wrote:
I guess I am even shorter and to the point these days. My mother just died 5 days
ago after being in the hospital for barely 2 weeks. It was terribly sudden and
unexpected. She had a knee replacement end of Feb and was back to working in her
beloved gardens. I am going to miss her so much.
Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:


So Bill, You kinda don't like some of the sorta long explanations that may
or may not be kinda sorta close to accurate, maybe? ;o) ~ jan


"Newbie Bill" wrote:

I do love Ingrid, and I'm not being facitious. If she knows about it she
responds - no kinda, sorta maybe. Short and sweet 'Thats my story and I'm
sticking to it.' It may not always be the gospel, but it could be one of
the missing books
Bill




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

My sympathies to you and your family Ingrid....
....Kodiak

wrote in message
...
I guess I am even shorter and to the point these days. My mother just
died 5 days
ago after being in the hospital for barely 2 weeks. It was terribly
sudden and
unexpected. She had a knee replacement end of Feb and was back to working
in her
beloved gardens. I am going to miss her so much.
Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

So Bill, You kinda don't like some of the sorta long explanations that
may
or may not be kinda sorta close to accurate, maybe? ;o) ~ jan

"Newbie Bill" wrote:

I do love Ingrid, and I'm not being facitious. If she knows about it
she
responds - no kinda, sorta maybe. Short and sweet 'Thats my story and
I'm
sticking to it.' It may not always be the gospel, but it could be one
of
the missing books
Bill



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

My sympathies to you and your family Ingrid....
....Kodiak

wrote in message
...
I guess I am even shorter and to the point these days. My mother just
died 5 days
ago after being in the hospital for barely 2 weeks. It was terribly
sudden and
unexpected. She had a knee replacement end of Feb and was back to working
in her
beloved gardens. I am going to miss her so much.
Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

So Bill, You kinda don't like some of the sorta long explanations that
may
or may not be kinda sorta close to accurate, maybe? ;o) ~ jan

"Newbie Bill" wrote:

I do love Ingrid, and I'm not being facitious. If she knows about it
she
responds - no kinda, sorta maybe. Short and sweet 'Thats my story and
I'm
sticking to it.' It may not always be the gospel, but it could be one
of
the missing books
Bill



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.