Hi Guys

I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......

All my local suppliers ie: Aquatics Centres have a product PDV (pure Dried
Vacuum) Salt
This has Anti Caking agent E535 (Sodium ferrocyanide)
They are ALL totally adamant and swear they have used this product for 20+
years with no problems
Several of these suppliers have Very large stocks of BIG Koi in ponds with
this salt added..
BUT According to several web sites I have looked at ie: www.puregold etc
They say NO to this additive as it turns to Cyanide when used........


What should I do?

Chris

"ciel" wrote in message
k...
Hi Guys

I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......

All my local suppliers ie: Aquatics Centres have a product PDV (pure Dried
Vacuum) Salt
This has Anti Caking agent E535 (Sodium ferrocyanide)
They are ALL totally adamant and swear they have used this product for 20+
years with no problems
Several of these suppliers have Very large stocks of BIG Koi in ponds with
this salt added..
BUT According to several web sites I have looked at ie: www.puregold etc
They say NO to this additive as it turns to Cyanide when used........


What should I do?

Chris


If in doubt, don't use it. I've nerver heard of using this product for live
garden ponds. If anyone else has any experience with it, please speak up. I
use about a half a cup of sea salt, and about a half a cup of epsom salt. I add
it after every other addition of water (about once a month), after which I check
the water quality.

"ciel" wrote in message
k...
Hi Guys

I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......

All my local suppliers ie: Aquatics Centres have a product PDV (pure Dried
Vacuum) Salt
This has Anti Caking agent E535 (Sodium ferrocyanide)
They are ALL totally adamant and swear they have used this product for 20+
years with no problems
Several of these suppliers have Very large stocks of BIG Koi in ponds with
this salt added..
BUT According to several web sites I have looked at ie: www.puregold etc
They say NO to this additive as it turns to Cyanide when used........


What should I do?

Chris


If in doubt, don't use it. I've nerver heard of using this product for live
garden ponds. If anyone else has any experience with it, please speak up. I
use about a half a cup of sea salt, and about a half a cup of epsom salt. I add
it after every other addition of water (about once a month), after which I check
the water quality.

ciel wrote:
Hi Guys

I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......

What should I do?

Chris

Many of us use Solar Salt Pellets from Home Depot or Lowe's.
It does the job of salt and the price is very inexpensive.


--
Bonnie
NJ

go to wal-mart and get pickling salt its cheap It comes in a green box.



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

go to wal-mart and get pickling salt its cheap It comes in a green box.



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:42:58 GMT, "ciel" wrote:

I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......
All my local suppliers ie: Aquatics Centres have a product PDV (pure Dried
Vacuum) Salt
This has Anti Caking agent E535 (Sodium ferrocyanide)

Our resident chemist who use to post he Rod Farlee wrote:

YPS (yellow prussiate of soda, sodium ferrocyanide) is a common
anti-caking additive in granulated table salt. Morton's has it, so "when
it rains, it still pours". It is potentially toxic to fish.

Table salt may contain up to 13 ppm YPS, and does not have to be
listed on the label, per FDA regulation (21 CFR 172.490).

When exposed to sunlight, ultraviolet light rapidly photolyzes YPS to
free cyanide. US EPA lists cyanide as toxic to fish at 0.022 ppm
(acute toxicity) to 0.005 ppm (chronic toxicity, "96 hr LC50" means it
kills half the fish in 3 days). Fortunately, cyanide isn't persistent; it
evaporates readily and bacteria can destroy it.

At the oft-recommended 0.1% salinity, salt with 13 ppm YPS would
put 0.013 ppm YPS in the pond, which could photolyze to 0.0044 ppm
HCN, which is near the toxic level.

If higher salinities were needed for disease treatment, cyanide could
exceed toxic levels.

If, on the other hand, lower salinities were used (e.g. 100 ppm for
prevention of nitrite toxicity), the low cyanide level would not be of
concern.

I use solar salt crystals, coarse 1/4 to 1/2 inch in size. It doesn't seem
to contain YPS (humidity causes it to fuse into a lump, which I break up
with a hammer or boot). An 80 pound bag was $6 on sale at Lowe's.
- Rod

Personally, I get Morton's water softener salt in the blue bag without
conditioners, 99.9% pure I think it says on it, no anti-caking chemicals
and only ~$4/40 lbs. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

forget that stuff. get plain old 100% rock salt CRYSTALS not sea salt... in plastic
bags meant for water softening. it is cheap and great. Ingrid

"ciel" wrote:

Hi Guys

I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......

All my local suppliers ie: Aquatics Centres have a product PDV (pure Dried
Vacuum) Salt
This has Anti Caking agent E535 (Sodium ferrocyanide)
They are ALL totally adamant and swear they have used this product for 20+
years with no problems
Several of these suppliers have Very large stocks of BIG Koi in ponds with
this salt added..
BUT According to several web sites I have looked at ie: www.puregold etc
They say NO to this additive as it turns to Cyanide when used........


What should I do?

Chris




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Bonnie,

Let me throw this into the works. Solar salt only
means that it has used the sun energy to concentrate
the salt. I used to live in front of salt evap ponds
that were being used to concentrate the sea salts in to
brine water requiring less expenditure of energy for
making the final product. Just because it is solar
salt, that has nothing to do with anti caking materials
and I should point out that since the salt you are
talking about is not meant for human consumption prese,
the makers/packagers of the salt are not required by
law to list additives at all.

Have you ever thought how or why that these salts do
not seem to cake together when you are pouring it out
of its paper bag?

Just thought you would like to know.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------
Bonnie wrote:

ciel wrote:

Hi Guys

I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......

What should I do?

Chris

Many of us use Solar Salt Pellets from Home Depot or Lowe's.
It does the job of salt and the price is very inexpensive.

Bonnie,

Let me throw this into the works. Solar salt only
means that it has used the sun energy to concentrate
the salt. I used to live in front of salt evap ponds
that were being used to concentrate the sea salts in to
brine water requiring less expenditure of energy for
making the final product. Just because it is solar
salt, that has nothing to do with anti caking materials
and I should point out that since the salt you are
talking about is not meant for human consumption prese,
the makers/packagers of the salt are not required by
law to list additives at all.

Have you ever thought how or why that these salts do
not seem to cake together when you are pouring it out
of its paper bag?

Just thought you would like to know.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------
Bonnie wrote:

ciel wrote:

Hi Guys

I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......

What should I do?

Chris

Many of us use Solar Salt Pellets from Home Depot or Lowe's.
It does the job of salt and the price is very inexpensive.

Bonnie,

Let me throw this into the works. Solar salt only
means that it has used the sun energy to concentrate
the salt. I used to live in front of salt evap ponds
that were being used to concentrate the sea salts in to
brine water requiring less expenditure of energy for
making the final product. Just because it is solar
salt, that has nothing to do with anti caking materials
and I should point out that since the salt you are
talking about is not meant for human consumption prese,
the makers/packagers of the salt are not required by
law to list additives at all.

Have you ever thought how or why that these salts do
not seem to cake together when you are pouring it out
of its paper bag?

Just thought you would like to know.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------
Bonnie wrote:

ciel wrote:

Hi Guys

I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......

What should I do?

Chris

Many of us use Solar Salt Pellets from Home Depot or Lowe's.
It does the job of salt and the price is very inexpensive.

Chris,

In pickling salts you will find no anti-caking
materials, because they interfere with the pickling
process. In some stores it comes in a grayish bag. In
any event, just look for pickling salt. Some stores
have all the canning items in one area and you will
sometimes find the pickling salt there in that area.

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------

REBEL JOE wrote:

go to wal-mart and get pickling salt its cheap It comes in a green box.



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

Chris,

In pickling salts you will find no anti-caking
materials, because they interfere with the pickling
process. In some stores it comes in a grayish bag. In
any event, just look for pickling salt. Some stores
have all the canning items in one area and you will
sometimes find the pickling salt there in that area.

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------

REBEL JOE wrote:

go to wal-mart and get pickling salt its cheap It comes in a green box.



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

Jan,

Rod really doesn't know what he is talking about when
he refers to Morton, because Morton has not used YPS
since the late 1940's. I asked Morton, so I know.

Tom L.L.
----------------------------------------------------
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:42:58 GMT, "ciel" wrote:


I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......
All my local suppliers ie: Aquatics Centres have a product PDV (pure Dried
Vacuum) Salt
This has Anti Caking agent E535 (Sodium ferrocyanide)


Our resident chemist who use to post he Rod Farlee wrote:

YPS (yellow prussiate of soda, sodium ferrocyanide) is a common
anti-caking additive in granulated table salt. Morton's has it, so "when
it rains, it still pours". It is potentially toxic to fish.

Table salt may contain up to 13 ppm YPS, and does not have to be
listed on the label, per FDA regulation (21 CFR 172.490).

When exposed to sunlight, ultraviolet light rapidly photolyzes YPS to
free cyanide. US EPA lists cyanide as toxic to fish at 0.022 ppm
(acute toxicity) to 0.005 ppm (chronic toxicity, "96 hr LC50" means it
kills half the fish in 3 days). Fortunately, cyanide isn't persistent; it
evaporates readily and bacteria can destroy it.

At the oft-recommended 0.1% salinity, salt with 13 ppm YPS would
put 0.013 ppm YPS in the pond, which could photolyze to 0.0044 ppm
HCN, which is near the toxic level.

If higher salinities were needed for disease treatment, cyanide could
exceed toxic levels.

If, on the other hand, lower salinities were used (e.g. 100 ppm for
prevention of nitrite toxicity), the low cyanide level would not be of
concern.

I use solar salt crystals, coarse 1/4 to 1/2 inch in size. It doesn't seem
to contain YPS (humidity causes it to fuse into a lump, which I break up
with a hammer or boot). An 80 pound bag was $6 on sale at Lowe's.
- Rod

Personally, I get Morton's water softener salt in the blue bag without
conditioners, 99.9% pure I think it says on it, no anti-caking chemicals
and only ~$4/40 lbs. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Jan,

Rod really doesn't know what he is talking about when
he refers to Morton, because Morton has not used YPS
since the late 1940's. I asked Morton, so I know.

Tom L.L.
----------------------------------------------------
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:42:58 GMT, "ciel" wrote:


I have a dilemma
I want to use some salt in my pond BUT.......
All my local suppliers ie: Aquatics Centres have a product PDV (pure Dried
Vacuum) Salt
This has Anti Caking agent E535 (Sodium ferrocyanide)


Our resident chemist who use to post he Rod Farlee wrote:

YPS (yellow prussiate of soda, sodium ferrocyanide) is a common
anti-caking additive in granulated table salt. Morton's has it, so "when
it rains, it still pours". It is potentially toxic to fish.

Table salt may contain up to 13 ppm YPS, and does not have to be
listed on the label, per FDA regulation (21 CFR 172.490).

When exposed to sunlight, ultraviolet light rapidly photolyzes YPS to
free cyanide. US EPA lists cyanide as toxic to fish at 0.022 ppm
(acute toxicity) to 0.005 ppm (chronic toxicity, "96 hr LC50" means it
kills half the fish in 3 days). Fortunately, cyanide isn't persistent; it
evaporates readily and bacteria can destroy it.

At the oft-recommended 0.1% salinity, salt with 13 ppm YPS would
put 0.013 ppm YPS in the pond, which could photolyze to 0.0044 ppm
HCN, which is near the toxic level.

If higher salinities were needed for disease treatment, cyanide could
exceed toxic levels.

If, on the other hand, lower salinities were used (e.g. 100 ppm for
prevention of nitrite toxicity), the low cyanide level would not be of
concern.

I use solar salt crystals, coarse 1/4 to 1/2 inch in size. It doesn't seem
to contain YPS (humidity causes it to fuse into a lump, which I break up
with a hammer or boot). An 80 pound bag was $6 on sale at Lowe's.
- Rod

Personally, I get Morton's water softener salt in the blue bag without
conditioners, 99.9% pure I think it says on it, no anti-caking chemicals
and only ~$4/40 lbs. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)