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#17
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#18
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Benefit of concrete is that the sides can be vertical without caving in,
which makes for a more predator safe pond. Downside to concrete, not readily removed if you want to sell the house or get out of ponding, and if not properly cured or coated, adds calcium hydroxide to the pond raising the general hardness and pH. For a proper koi pond, depth is the key, and those that I know that are the most knowledgable, have ponds 8 to 12 feet deep. That would require concrete for stability. My ponds are liner ponds and the deepest is only 3 1/2 feet deep, so I can still get in and do maintenance. Whichever means of construction, be sure to include bottom drains, skimmers and a filter rated at 2 to 4 times the size of the pond. My ponds have about 4 times the filtration according to manufacturers recommendations, but they don't have the number and size of fish built into their formulas. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html "Michael Capone" wrote in message om... Hi Folks, Been doing a lot of reading lately on the concrete vs. 45-mil liner issue when setting up a fish pond. I'd like to ask the question in a slightly different way: Assume that money is no object (for the moment, at least; I'm sure I'll come to my senses soon...) Also, assume that I don't have to set it up myself (I have a competent fish pond installer who can go either route, and is at this very moment sitting around waiting for me to make up my mind on which direction to go). Given those two criteria, I'd like to know, which pond bottom is best in the long run? Since ease of installation is not a concern, I'd like to hear from people who have had to live with one or the other for some time. Is maintenance easier on one or the other? Is one "prettier" than the other (highly subjective, I know). Does algae grow on concrete and not come off? I should mention that I live near San Jose, CA; earthquakes can happen, although I'm not sure how big a deal this is. I don't get the extreme temperatures, though (freezing nights are relatively rare, though it can get up to 100 F on occasion). There are no tree roots anywhere nearby that I have to worry about. So, thoughts? Thanks in advance for any input. I've been tearing my hair out over this crazy issue. Thanks! Michael |
#19
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Hmm, not to question your 'rule', but it would indicate SIX fish. And
I'm sure the 'rule' takes into account the size of the fish. Hmmm, a 25,000 gallon pond would be 50' X 20' x 3 ' deep. No, I wouldn't want to try that in concrete - or my back yard. Right off hand I'd say that's larger than the koi pond at the National Arboretum PlainBill On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:59:37 -0400, "Janet" wrote: Uhmm... PlainBill..... a 1500 gallon koi pond is only big enough to keep about 4 koi if one follows the generally accepted rule of 1000 gallons for the first koi and then 100 additional gallons per fish... I know folks with 25,000 gallons and are thinking of going bigger yet. ) Janet in sunny Niagara Falls He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. -Thomas Paine |
#20
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On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:44:40 -0500, Bob Koerber
wrote: Andrew Burgess wrote: That rule is rubbish. 600 gallons is plenty for half a dozen koi and when they get large enough to be a problem you just rotate them for smaller ones. Not everyone has an acre of property to fit a 10,000 gallon pond 10000 / 8 = 1250 cu ft 15 x 15 x 5.5 feet I have 8 Koi and 6 goldfish in my 1200 gallon pond in the greenhouse. They have been happy and content and range from 4 - 16 inches in length. I am currently enlarging the pond to 2800 gallons but the key is water quality and filtration in my opinion. I also have a 380,000 gallon (approx) pond in my front yard and it fits in a little over a third of an acre 180' by 80' by 3.5' average depth 8' max. Bob in North Alabama Bob, What kind of a liner do you have under the 380,000 pond? PlainBill He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. -Thomas Paine |
#21
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On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:44:40 -0500, Bob Koerber
wrote: Andrew Burgess wrote: That rule is rubbish. 600 gallons is plenty for half a dozen koi and when they get large enough to be a problem you just rotate them for smaller ones. Not everyone has an acre of property to fit a 10,000 gallon pond 10000 / 8 = 1250 cu ft 15 x 15 x 5.5 feet I have 8 Koi and 6 goldfish in my 1200 gallon pond in the greenhouse. They have been happy and content and range from 4 - 16 inches in length. I am currently enlarging the pond to 2800 gallons but the key is water quality and filtration in my opinion. I also have a 380,000 gallon (approx) pond in my front yard and it fits in a little over a third of an acre 180' by 80' by 3.5' average depth 8' max. Bob in North Alabama Bob, What kind of a liner do you have under the 380,000 pond? PlainBill He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. -Thomas Paine |
#22
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On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:02:39 -0400, "Janet"
wrote: Roy goldfish are not koi. Goldfish will pretty much live, if not thrive in what most would classify as sewer water. Koi on the other hand will not. Janet in sunny Niagara Falls Let's not forget that koi are actually a variation of carp. I would certainly never do this to my koi, but 40 years ago when towns were dumping raw sewage into streams, carp would collect around the discharge pipe to feed. PlainBill He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. -Thomas Paine |
#23
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On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:12:23 -0400, "Janet"
wrote: So D, are you actually going to tell someone that has come to love their wetpets that are now 24" or 30" long that they now have to get rid of them? I seriously think not. What are you going to do with them? With little known about KHV not many (if any at all) would be willing to take them off your hands, let alone pay for them. You can add to the mix the number of parasites, bacteria and diseases that we do know about with koi and basically you are going to be SOL. We're not talking about 6" or even 12" goldfish here... we're talking about pond pigs that should, in proper conditions grown to be 30" or even 36" long! It's really not hard to get the water volumes needed to keep koi healthy, it means digging deeper. Here in zone 6b it's not recommended to even think about keeping koi unless you dig 5.5' to 6' deep. Koi don't do well in water below 40 degrees... Janet in sunny Niagara Falls And here in sunny Phoenix, three foot deep water is just fine. PlainBill He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. -Thomas Paine |
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