Any one have recommendations for good external pump for a 4,000+gal.
pond? I am trying to get ready for the eventual demise of my two SG
4300's. What I keep reading is that for larger ponds, external pumps
are the way to go.
Thanks for your comments and input
W. Dale

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:01:22 -0600, W Dale
wrote:

===Any one have recommendations for good external pump for a 4,000+gal.
===pond? I am trying to get ready for the eventual demise of my two SG
===4300's. What I keep reading is that for larger ponds, external pumps
===are the way to go.
===Thanks for your comments and input
===W. Dale


Most effieciency in the external pumps come from their size and the
amount of windings they have, as comparted to submersibles. While some
sub types run in oil, and others are encapsulated n epoxy, they still
build up heat and heat in any electrical device is wasted energy, as
the hotter it gets the more it looses. Subs get warm even submerged in
water. Open air designs as most externals are are pretty good at
getting rid of heat and not transferring latent heat to water in the
process.

I think the whole concept of sub is great from the average homeowners
standpoint with ease of installation and wiring.......Usually just
slip on tube and plug it in after dropping it in the pond. Ext types
usually are a lot more involved and not geared to as many home owners
abilities or uses, in size and complexity. Ext also operate more
efficeintly mainly due to the usual type of plumbing they are hooked
up with. Lots opf things will govern just how efficient any pump is.

There was just a 3 month old Hayward Super Pump of 1/2 hp (420 watt)
ext pump sold on ebay for $61.00 complete with primer and filter
basket strainer. That pump lists for close to $300.......and puts out
54 GPM at 20 foot head or 29 gal a minute at 40 feet of head which is
pretty darn good. I had my eye on it but did not get to the computer
in time to place my bid this morning......

I am currently looking at AZponds pump and strainer basket pumps that
they have on sale. A lot of the inground pool type pumps will work
more than satisfactorily for pond use, and since there are a lot of
pools / hot tubs out there as compared to ponds I find the prices on
them a lot lower than the average typical water garden pumps cost.

One thing to be aware of though is a lot of companies "UP" rate their
pumps to make it sound better. For example. A pump rated at say a
service factor of 1 and of 1 hp . Well if you use a service factor of
1.5 for that same pump / moptor you now get a pump rated at, 1 1/2 hp.
It will not pump any more than the 1 hp pump will as its the same
exact pump and motor combination, but has a different service factor,
but odds are running at that higher service factor it will not last as
long as the same exact pump rated lower..........its all a numbers
game. Lower service factor the better.......so why pay more for a pump
with a different label on it with a claimed higher hp. Thats about
all thats really changed is the labels on a lot of pumps.......You are
lead to believe if you get a 1 1/2 hp it won;t have to work as hard as
a 1 hp and its only $20 bucks more, but for your 20 bucks all you got
was a new label and a pump with a shorter overall lifespan. Its a
given so many watts equal a horsepower. What that wattage is slips my
mind at the present.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

I have three Sequence pumps running on my two ponds. They are very
efficient, comparably priced and have been recommended for years by other
ponders. The motor size is generally 1/4 or 1/3 HP, but they move very high
quantities of water. The down side to many of the energy efficient pumps,
is they lose volume due to head fairly quickly. If you are trying to create
a tall waterfall or move water through a small pipe, then the efficiency
kind of goes out the window, and the HP goes up.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"W Dale" wrote in message
...
Any one have recommendations for good external pump for a 4,000+gal.
pond? I am trying to get ready for the eventual demise of my two SG
4300's. What I keep reading is that for larger ponds, external pumps
are the way to go.
Thanks for your comments and input
W. Dale

WD (Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:01:22 -0600):
Any one have recommendations for good external pump for a 4,000+gal.

Here's a collection from over the past couple of years, by date.
The main thing to watch out for is phoney-baloney specs. I looked
at MDM's (Sequence) Cimmarron recently and it showed "121 W", but
that was at 500 GPH, and it was 160 W at 2000 GPH (about what it
would do with average/typical head), yet they advertise 121 W
(and it's dead still at only 12 ft head). That's phoney-baloney
specs. Anyway, this is the collection. Some may be in google
news already, some not. Now they all will.

|||||| ||||||

From Sat Jul 13 02:17:59 2002

Have looked into getting a submersible pump and probably will get a
MagDrive,but

Couple things. I once thought, hey, mag-drive, you can't go wrong with
that. Then I read in one online seller's pages how they have nothing
but problems with mag drives ("mag" drives in general).

Reason is that the impeller, since it works on magnetic coupling, has
to be very lightweight. Because the impellar is lightweight it breaks
very easily. This seller was selling a mag drive (LG I think) and
another (more expensive) mag drive (Oase, perhaps), and only
recommended the Oase (whatever it was, other than expensive) for a
mag drive pump. Something to think about (was news to me).

Second, I once thought that submersibles were the way to go (cheap and
easy way to go). Wrong. Very few are efficient, and very few last
long. Plus, well, you've got 120V running into your pond. That has
got to have you wondering... After 6 years (and three previous subs,
four counting the Cal) I finally got a regular pump. The Cal pump I
had been using (for well past its expected life: three years) was
burning 450 W and was getting more and more noisy (3450 RPM is always
noisy, but even more so lately).

Since I can't put a pump below the water level and not have it probably
flood out one of these days, I got a pump made to be put above water
level. It's a Performance Pro pump called the Artesian. I get the
same volume at 190 W (about 3000 GPH at 8 ft head, and I'm probably
more like 6', with just a UV to go through and all its plumbing) and
no noise at all. It self-primes if it had to but I put a check valve
in and it never breaks vacuum so that's not a real concern (the self-
prime ability) but, of course, without flooded suction I need the
included volute thing (priming pot/filter basket holder) to get it
filled to start.

In my opinion it's very well made and worth the expense. I got the
A1/8-35 model. You don't get a lot of head to work with, but with
2" pipe and not too many turns (or height) it should fit into most
small koi ponds (3500 GPH @ 6' and officially 187 W @ 115 V).
Three year warranty, but I'd have to think it'll last much longer.

Specs he

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p.../artesian.html

And it really does look as cool as its picture, not like those u-g-l-y
Sequence pumps (haha).

|||||| ||||||

From Tue Jul 30 15:19:18 2002

Theron ) (Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:35:46 GMT):
I don't know where else you can get a pump that puts out
amps for less than $400.00

http://www.plumbingstore.com/performancepropumps.html

but wait for winter.

2.5A at 115V is about hm... what... 300 W? The Wave pumps are pretty
low-head jobs, petering out at 10-15 feet, so you gotta be careful
about that.

http://www.wlimproducts.com/curve1.htm

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p...an/A100-F.html

|||||| ||||||

From Wed Jul 2 15:35:17 2003

DO (Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:52:00 GMT):
The reason I am looking real hard at the Oase is wattage. The Aquarius
2000 (max 2000 15ft max head) does 1650GPH at 4' of head for 125
watts. Discharge size is 1", and they recommend 1 1/2" tubing.

You may see 1200 or 1300 out of it. Trickle. You want twice that or
more. And fatter pipe (with a bigger pump). Get an out-of-pond pump
and you won't want the in ones anymore. Performance Pro has fine,
well-made pumps. I'm using the Artesian A 1/8-35 (now about a year).
A gallon a second at a rated 190 watts (rated 3600 GPH at 6 ft head,
half that at 15 feet). 2" pipe fits its 2" holes and my 2" UV. It's
self-priming. I'll get another when/if this grinds up.

http://www.performancepropumps.com/

|||||| ||||||

From Thu Jul 3 09:10:05 2003

$456 w/cord (11 less w/o). PPP may match that (email them), but I bought
it from plumbingstore.com (one of probably a dozen domain names that
online store uses) since they had a 2" swing valve and ball valve for a
song ($25 for the pair). The pump drop-shipped factory direct, though.
I've seen lower for the same during the fall and winter. Three-year
warranty, but I expect at least 5 years out of it (I'll take 10). I
leave it running year-round, throttling a bit when it gets cold.

http://www.performancepropumps.com/

One of those pay me now or pay me later things. It is more convenient
for me to not have the pump in the pond. Been there, done that, over
quite a few pumps. If the Aquarius 2000 doesn't need any sort of pre-
filtering ( no servicing), and the output is enough for you, that
could work. However, looking at its picture, I wouldn't expect much
from it (looks like it'll clog easy). The Atlantis 150 looks like it'd
need servicing too.

|||||| ||||||

From Sun Sep 5 15:14:02 2004

WD (Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:01:22 -0600):
Any one have recommendations for good external pump for a 4,000+gal.

http://www.performancepropumps.com/index.html

Specifically in

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p...d-welcome.html

The Artesian line is simple to deal with. For 4000 gallons of water,
refer to this performance chart:

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p...an/A100-F.html

I have the A 1/8-35. Going on a couple years. Depending on your
real head, it may do (I have 3000 gl w/2" UV, 2" pipe). It's under
200W @ 120V, and does about 60 GPM at 5 ft head. You can buy it
direct (they may price match) or from a reseller. If you don't
want the integrated basket, look at the Cascade line. I like it
because, to me, it seems very well made, and does what it should.

|||||| ||||||

(Oh, right, you've seen that last one.)
--
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`' `'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
SLOTHEAD

WD (Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:01:22 -0600):
Any one have recommendations for good external pump for a 4,000+gal.

Here's a collection from over the past couple of years, by date.
The main thing to watch out for is phoney-baloney specs. I looked
at MDM's (Sequence) Cimmarron recently and it showed "121 W", but
that was at 500 GPH, and it was 160 W at 2000 GPH (about what it
would do with average/typical head), yet they advertise 121 W
(and it's dead still at only 12 ft head). That's phoney-baloney
specs. Anyway, this is the collection. Some may be in google
news already, some not. Now they all will.

|||||| ||||||

From Sat Jul 13 02:17:59 2002

Have looked into getting a submersible pump and probably will get a
MagDrive,but

Couple things. I once thought, hey, mag-drive, you can't go wrong with
that. Then I read in one online seller's pages how they have nothing
but problems with mag drives ("mag" drives in general).

Reason is that the impeller, since it works on magnetic coupling, has
to be very lightweight. Because the impellar is lightweight it breaks
very easily. This seller was selling a mag drive (LG I think) and
another (more expensive) mag drive (Oase, perhaps), and only
recommended the Oase (whatever it was, other than expensive) for a
mag drive pump. Something to think about (was news to me).

Second, I once thought that submersibles were the way to go (cheap and
easy way to go). Wrong. Very few are efficient, and very few last
long. Plus, well, you've got 120V running into your pond. That has
got to have you wondering... After 6 years (and three previous subs,
four counting the Cal) I finally got a regular pump. The Cal pump I
had been using (for well past its expected life: three years) was
burning 450 W and was getting more and more noisy (3450 RPM is always
noisy, but even more so lately).

Since I can't put a pump below the water level and not have it probably
flood out one of these days, I got a pump made to be put above water
level. It's a Performance Pro pump called the Artesian. I get the
same volume at 190 W (about 3000 GPH at 8 ft head, and I'm probably
more like 6', with just a UV to go through and all its plumbing) and
no noise at all. It self-primes if it had to but I put a check valve
in and it never breaks vacuum so that's not a real concern (the self-
prime ability) but, of course, without flooded suction I need the
included volute thing (priming pot/filter basket holder) to get it
filled to start.

In my opinion it's very well made and worth the expense. I got the
A1/8-35 model. You don't get a lot of head to work with, but with
2" pipe and not too many turns (or height) it should fit into most
small koi ponds (3500 GPH @ 6' and officially 187 W @ 115 V).
Three year warranty, but I'd have to think it'll last much longer.

Specs he

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p.../artesian.html

And it really does look as cool as its picture, not like those u-g-l-y
Sequence pumps (haha).

|||||| ||||||

From Tue Jul 30 15:19:18 2002

Theron ) (Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:35:46 GMT):
I don't know where else you can get a pump that puts out
amps for less than $400.00

http://www.plumbingstore.com/performancepropumps.html

but wait for winter.

2.5A at 115V is about hm... what... 300 W? The Wave pumps are pretty
low-head jobs, petering out at 10-15 feet, so you gotta be careful
about that.

http://www.wlimproducts.com/curve1.htm

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p...an/A100-F.html

|||||| ||||||

From Wed Jul 2 15:35:17 2003

DO (Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:52:00 GMT):
The reason I am looking real hard at the Oase is wattage. The Aquarius
2000 (max 2000 15ft max head) does 1650GPH at 4' of head for 125
watts. Discharge size is 1", and they recommend 1 1/2" tubing.

You may see 1200 or 1300 out of it. Trickle. You want twice that or
more. And fatter pipe (with a bigger pump). Get an out-of-pond pump
and you won't want the in ones anymore. Performance Pro has fine,
well-made pumps. I'm using the Artesian A 1/8-35 (now about a year).
A gallon a second at a rated 190 watts (rated 3600 GPH at 6 ft head,
half that at 15 feet). 2" pipe fits its 2" holes and my 2" UV. It's
self-priming. I'll get another when/if this grinds up.

http://www.performancepropumps.com/

|||||| ||||||

From Thu Jul 3 09:10:05 2003

$456 w/cord (11 less w/o). PPP may match that (email them), but I bought
it from plumbingstore.com (one of probably a dozen domain names that
online store uses) since they had a 2" swing valve and ball valve for a
song ($25 for the pair). The pump drop-shipped factory direct, though.
I've seen lower for the same during the fall and winter. Three-year
warranty, but I expect at least 5 years out of it (I'll take 10). I
leave it running year-round, throttling a bit when it gets cold.

http://www.performancepropumps.com/

One of those pay me now or pay me later things. It is more convenient
for me to not have the pump in the pond. Been there, done that, over
quite a few pumps. If the Aquarius 2000 doesn't need any sort of pre-
filtering ( no servicing), and the output is enough for you, that
could work. However, looking at its picture, I wouldn't expect much
from it (looks like it'll clog easy). The Atlantis 150 looks like it'd
need servicing too.

|||||| ||||||

From Sun Sep 5 15:14:02 2004

WD (Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:01:22 -0600):
Any one have recommendations for good external pump for a 4,000+gal.

http://www.performancepropumps.com/index.html

Specifically in

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p...d-welcome.html

The Artesian line is simple to deal with. For 4000 gallons of water,
refer to this performance chart:

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p...an/A100-F.html

I have the A 1/8-35. Going on a couple years. Depending on your
real head, it may do (I have 3000 gl w/2" UV, 2" pipe). It's under
200W @ 120V, and does about 60 GPM at 5 ft head. You can buy it
direct (they may price match) or from a reseller. If you don't
want the integrated basket, look at the Cascade line. I like it
because, to me, it seems very well made, and does what it should.

|||||| ||||||

(Oh, right, you've seen that last one.)
--
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`' `'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
SLOTHEAD

Awww Right! Thanks for your help! That's what I'm looking for. :-) :-) .
Now to compare it all, look at my needs and check it all out.
Thanks, Sloth..

wrote:

WD (Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:01:22 -0600):
Any one have recommendations for good external pump for a 4,000+gal.

Here's a collection from over the past couple of years, by date.
The main thing to watch out for is phoney-baloney specs. I looked
at MDM's (Sequence) Cimmarron recently and it showed "121 W", but
that was at 500 GPH, and it was 160 W at 2000 GPH (about what it
would do with average/typical head), yet they advertise 121 W
(and it's dead still at only 12 ft head). That's phoney-baloney
specs. Anyway, this is the collection. Some may be in google
news already, some not. Now they all will.

|||||| ||||||

From Sat Jul 13 02:17:59 2002

Have looked into getting a submersible pump and probably will get a
MagDrive,but

Couple things. I once thought, hey, mag-drive, you can't go wrong with
that. Then I read in one online seller's pages how they have nothing
but problems with mag drives ("mag" drives in general).

Reason is that the impeller, since it works on magnetic coupling, has
to be very lightweight. Because the impellar is lightweight it breaks
very easily. This seller was selling a mag drive (LG I think) and
another (more expensive) mag drive (Oase, perhaps), and only
recommended the Oase (whatever it was, other than expensive) for a
mag drive pump. Something to think about (was news to me).

Second, I once thought that submersibles were the way to go (cheap and
easy way to go). Wrong. Very few are efficient, and very few last
long. Plus, well, you've got 120V running into your pond. That has
got to have you wondering... After 6 years (and three previous subs,
four counting the Cal) I finally got a regular pump. The Cal pump I
had been using (for well past its expected life: three years) was
burning 450 W and was getting more and more noisy (3450 RPM is always
noisy, but even more so lately).

Since I can't put a pump below the water level and not have it probably
flood out one of these days, I got a pump made to be put above water
level. It's a Performance Pro pump called the Artesian. I get the
same volume at 190 W (about 3000 GPH at 8 ft head, and I'm probably
more like 6', with just a UV to go through and all its plumbing) and
no noise at all. It self-primes if it had to but I put a check valve
in and it never breaks vacuum so that's not a real concern (the self-
prime ability) but, of course, without flooded suction I need the
included volute thing (priming pot/filter basket holder) to get it
filled to start.

In my opinion it's very well made and worth the expense. I got the
A1/8-35 model. You don't get a lot of head to work with, but with
2" pipe and not too many turns (or height) it should fit into most
small koi ponds (3500 GPH @ 6' and officially 187 W @ 115 V).
Three year warranty, but I'd have to think it'll last much longer.

Specs he

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p.../artesian.html

And it really does look as cool as its picture, not like those u-g-l-y
Sequence pumps (haha).

|||||| ||||||

From Tue Jul 30 15:19:18 2002

Theron ) (Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:35:46 GMT):
I don't know where else you can get a pump that puts out
amps for less than $400.00

http://www.plumbingstore.com/performancepropumps.html

but wait for winter.

2.5A at 115V is about hm... what... 300 W? The Wave pumps are pretty
low-head jobs, petering out at 10-15 feet, so you gotta be careful
about that.

http://www.wlimproducts.com/curve1.htm

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p...an/A100-F.html

|||||| ||||||

From Wed Jul 2 15:35:17 2003

DO (Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:52:00 GMT):
The reason I am looking real hard at the Oase is wattage. The Aquarius
2000 (max 2000 15ft max head) does 1650GPH at 4' of head for 125
watts. Discharge size is 1", and they recommend 1 1/2" tubing.

You may see 1200 or 1300 out of it. Trickle. You want twice that or
more. And fatter pipe (with a bigger pump). Get an out-of-pond pump
and you won't want the in ones anymore. Performance Pro has fine,
well-made pumps. I'm using the Artesian A 1/8-35 (now about a year).
A gallon a second at a rated 190 watts (rated 3600 GPH at 6 ft head,
half that at 15 feet). 2" pipe fits its 2" holes and my 2" UV. It's
self-priming. I'll get another when/if this grinds up.

http://www.performancepropumps.com/

|||||| ||||||

From Thu Jul 3 09:10:05 2003

$456 w/cord (11 less w/o). PPP may match that (email them), but I bought
it from plumbingstore.com (one of probably a dozen domain names that
online store uses) since they had a 2" swing valve and ball valve for a
song ($25 for the pair). The pump drop-shipped factory direct, though.
I've seen lower for the same during the fall and winter. Three-year
warranty, but I expect at least 5 years out of it (I'll take 10). I
leave it running year-round, throttling a bit when it gets cold.

http://www.performancepropumps.com/

One of those pay me now or pay me later things. It is more convenient
for me to not have the pump in the pond. Been there, done that, over
quite a few pumps. If the Aquarius 2000 doesn't need any sort of pre-
filtering ( no servicing), and the output is enough for you, that
could work. However, looking at its picture, I wouldn't expect much
from it (looks like it'll clog easy). The Atlantis 150 looks like it'd
need servicing too.

|||||| ||||||

From Sun Sep 5 15:14:02 2004

WD (Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:01:22 -0600):
Any one have recommendations for good external pump for a 4,000+gal.

http://www.performancepropumps.com/index.html

Specifically in

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p...d-welcome.html

The Artesian line is simple to deal with. For 4000 gallons of water,
refer to this performance chart:

http://www.performancepropumps.com/p...an/A100-F.html

I have the A 1/8-35. Going on a couple years. Depending on your
real head, it may do (I have 3000 gl w/2" UV, 2" pipe). It's under
200W @ 120V, and does about 60 GPM at 5 ft head. You can buy it
direct (they may price match) or from a reseller. If you don't
want the integrated basket, look at the Cascade line. I like it
because, to me, it seems very well made, and does what it should.

|||||| ||||||

(Oh, right, you've seen that last one.)