The water fall is acting as a skimmer for the top pond and all the dust,
dirt, debris that lands on the pond, plus any floating plant material all go
over the water fall to the small pond at the bottom. The pump will
recirculate some of this stuff, since it will be dispersed through the water
column. The bottom pond will fill with muck, mulm, fairly quickly and needs
to be cleaned regularly. When I started out, I had a similar setup to
yours, and then added a 1500 gallon liner pond to the mix, and then the
amount of mulm built up very quickly in the bottom pond.

You really need a solids handling pump that you can put on the bottom of the
small lower pond and then have the water circulated through some form of
filter that can be easily cleaned, or you will be cleaning the bottom pond
very often, or you will be building pockets of hydrogen sulfide gas that
will kill fish, if you want to have fish in the lower pond. If you don't
mind not having fish in the lower pond, then it can be a settling tank,
setting the pump intake near the surface, and as material builds up, turn
off the pump, use a shop vac or similar to clean the pond and then refill
the bottom pond and restart the system.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"jammer" wrote in message
...

Here is what has changed:

I added about a 150 gallon raised preform that runs into the bottom
pond. I built a little waterfall to run into the new top pond and
dropped a 250gph pump into the bottom pond. This is when i notice
large dirt particles being circulated around. ('ll be cleaning it soon
but still...) I know i need a filter but what is the easiest/cheapest
way to go for my small set-up? A rubber maid tub with some sort of
material...... I can do a web search but what can i use that is fish
safe? I itch just thinking about insulation, anything easier to
handle/clean? And why are my fish ok in the top pond but not the
bottom?

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:57:18 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

The water fall is acting as a skimmer for the top pond and all the
dust,
dirt, debris that lands on the pond, plus any floating plant material
all go
over the water fall to the small pond at the bottom. The pump will
recirculate some of this stuff, since it will be dispersed through
the water
column. The bottom pond will fill with muck, mulm, fairly quickly
and needs
to be cleaned regularly. When I started out, I had a similar setup
to
yours, and then added a 1500 gallon liner pond to the mix, and then
the
amount of mulm built up very quickly in the bottom pond.

You really need a solids handling pump that you can put on the bottom
of the
small lower pond and then have the water circulated through some form
of
filter that can be easily cleaned, or you will be cleaning the bottom
pond
very often, or you will be building pockets of hydrogen sulfide gas
that
will kill fish, if you want to have fish in the lower pond. If you
don't
mind not having fish in the lower pond, then it can be a settling
tank,
setting the pump intake near the surface, and as material builds up,
turn
off the pump, use a shop vac or similar to clean the pond and then
refill
the bottom pond and restart the system.

*I was thinking about throwing in a dunk and saying to heck with fish,
but next spring i will have tadpoles again so i have to get this
right.

Solids handling pump........i will look that one up. Thanks

If i clean the bottom pond regularly, can i keep the 250 pondmaster
and waterfall? (will the fish live then)

I KNEW there had to be some explanation, thank you very much.

As always, juls/jammer

(i am sure i'll be back with more about this)

Your current pump will work, but I would lift it several inches off the
bottom to keep it from clogging or recycling the mulm on the bottom. When
the mulm starts to accumulate, it should be easy to clean from that size
pond.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"jammer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:57:18 GMT, "RichToyBox"

If i clean the bottom pond regularly, can i keep the 250 pondmaster
and waterfall? (will the fish live then)

I KNEW there had to be some explanation, thank you very much.

As always, juls/jammer

(i am sure i'll be back with more about this)

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:47:48 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

Your current pump will work, but I would lift it several inches off
the
bottom to keep it from clogging or recycling the mulm on the bottom.
When
the mulm starts to accumulate, it should be easy to clean from that
size
pond.

It is sitting on the bottom so thank you so much for this!

I got the sunken end raised today and will completely clean and
Condition them tomorrow. Then i'll re-build the waterfall and i MIGHT
just have time to enjoy it before i go out of town for several weeks.
I am still trying to think of a way to make a filter but cant find
"Small Filters For Dummies"... It should be ok for a while, then
someone can explain to me why it didnt work without one

I totally appreciate ya'lls input.

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:47:48 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

Your current pump will work, but I would lift it several inches off
the
bottom to keep it from clogging or recycling the mulm on the bottom.
When
the mulm starts to accumulate, it should be easy to clean from that
size
pond.

It is sitting on the bottom so thank you so much for this!

I got the sunken end raised today and will completely clean and
Condition them tomorrow. Then i'll re-build the waterfall and i MIGHT
just have time to enjoy it before i go out of town for several weeks.
I am still trying to think of a way to make a filter but cant find
"Small Filters For Dummies"... It should be ok for a while, then
someone can explain to me why it didnt work without one

I totally appreciate ya'lls input.

Your current pump will work, but I would lift it several inches off the
bottom to keep it from clogging or recycling the mulm on the bottom. When
the mulm starts to accumulate, it should be easy to clean from that size
pond.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"jammer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:57:18 GMT, "RichToyBox"

If i clean the bottom pond regularly, can i keep the 250 pondmaster
and waterfall? (will the fish live then)

I KNEW there had to be some explanation, thank you very much.

As always, juls/jammer

(i am sure i'll be back with more about this)

Ok, today i emptied and refilled the lower pond, adding "Right Start"
or something like that. I sat the pump on a brick platform about 4-5
inches off of the bottom. I also sprayed off the plants and cut back
some roots. (Those taro grow like freaking crazy here!) Then i
emptied the upper pond and caught the 3 remaining goldfish and plunked
them into the bottom pond. (That additive said it was fish ready
immediately) I shop vacced the top pond and filled and conditioned
it. I can probably actually go buy a few fish for it now. All that
took me up until dark and about 57 mosquito bites. (Off Schmoff) So i
propped the hose up with a rock over the top pond where the new
waterfall will be, and turned on the pump. Last i checked, the fish
were played chase.

I would like to thank you for your help. The answers may have been
easy, but i had no idea how much sludgey crap was in the bottom pond
and no wonder i every fish.

LIVE AND LEARN - I have learned plenty and will go on someday to
help my friends with their ponds.









On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:57:18 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

The water fall is acting as a skimmer for the top pond and all the
dust,
dirt, debris that lands on the pond, plus any floating plant material
all go
over the water fall to the small pond at the bottom. The pump will
recirculate some of this stuff, since it will be dispersed through
the water
column. The bottom pond will fill with muck, mulm, fairly quickly
and needs
to be cleaned regularly. When I started out, I had a similar setup
to
yours, and then added a 1500 gallon liner pond to the mix, and then
the
amount of mulm built up very quickly in the bottom pond.

You really need a solids handling pump that you can put on the bottom
of the
small lower pond and then have the water circulated through some form
of
filter that can be easily cleaned, or you will be cleaning the bottom
pond
very often, or you will be building pockets of hydrogen sulfide gas
that
will kill fish, if you want to have fish in the lower pond. If you
don't
mind not having fish in the lower pond, then it can be a settling
tank,
setting the pump intake near the surface, and as material builds up,
turn
off the pump, use a shop vac or similar to clean the pond and then
refill
the bottom pond and restart the system.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:40:03 -0500, jammer wrote:


I would like to thank you for your help. The answers may have been
easy, but i had no idea how much sludgey crap was in the bottom pond
and no wonder i every fish.

Clear as mulm, eh?

It's no wonder i killed my fish with all that crap in there but i
didnt realize how i had turned it into a settling tank.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:40:03 -0500, jammer wrote:


I would like to thank you for your help. The answers may have been
easy, but i had no idea how much sludgey crap was in the bottom pond
and no wonder i every fish.

Clear as mulm, eh?

It's no wonder i killed my fish with all that crap in there but i
didnt realize how i had turned it into a settling tank.

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:57:18 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

The water fall is acting as a skimmer for the top pond and all the
dust,
dirt, debris that lands on the pond, plus any floating plant material
all go
over the water fall to the small pond at the bottom. The pump will
recirculate some of this stuff, since it will be dispersed through
the water
column. The bottom pond will fill with muck, mulm, fairly quickly
and needs
to be cleaned regularly. When I started out, I had a similar setup
to
yours, and then added a 1500 gallon liner pond to the mix, and then
the
amount of mulm built up very quickly in the bottom pond.

You really need a solids handling pump that you can put on the bottom
of the
small lower pond and then have the water circulated through some form
of
filter that can be easily cleaned, or you will be cleaning the bottom
pond
very often, or you will be building pockets of hydrogen sulfide gas
that
will kill fish, if you want to have fish in the lower pond. If you
don't
mind not having fish in the lower pond, then it can be a settling
tank,
setting the pump intake near the surface, and as material builds up,
turn
off the pump, use a shop vac or similar to clean the pond and then
refill
the bottom pond and restart the system.

*I was thinking about throwing in a dunk and saying to heck with fish,
but next spring i will have tadpoles again so i have to get this
right.

Solids handling pump........i will look that one up. Thanks

If i clean the bottom pond regularly, can i keep the 250 pondmaster
and waterfall? (will the fish live then)

I KNEW there had to be some explanation, thank you very much.

As always, juls/jammer

(i am sure i'll be back with more about this)

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:57:18 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

The water fall is acting as a skimmer for the top pond and all the
dust,
dirt, debris that lands on the pond, plus any floating plant material
all go
over the water fall to the small pond at the bottom. The pump will
recirculate some of this stuff, since it will be dispersed through
the water
column. The bottom pond will fill with muck, mulm, fairly quickly
and needs
to be cleaned regularly. When I started out, I had a similar setup
to
yours, and then added a 1500 gallon liner pond to the mix, and then
the
amount of mulm built up very quickly in the bottom pond.

You really need a solids handling pump that you can put on the bottom
of the
small lower pond and then have the water circulated through some form
of
filter that can be easily cleaned, or you will be cleaning the bottom
pond
very often, or you will be building pockets of hydrogen sulfide gas
that
will kill fish, if you want to have fish in the lower pond. If you
don't
mind not having fish in the lower pond, then it can be a settling
tank,
setting the pump intake near the surface, and as material builds up,
turn
off the pump, use a shop vac or similar to clean the pond and then
refill
the bottom pond and restart the system.

*I was thinking about throwing in a dunk and saying to heck with fish,
but next spring i will have tadpoles again so i have to get this
right.

Solids handling pump........i will look that one up. Thanks

If i clean the bottom pond regularly, can i keep the 250 pondmaster
and waterfall? (will the fish live then)

I KNEW there had to be some explanation, thank you very much.

As always, juls/jammer

(i am sure i'll be back with more about this)

Ok, today i emptied and refilled the lower pond, adding "Right Start"
or something like that. I sat the pump on a brick platform about 4-5
inches off of the bottom. I also sprayed off the plants and cut back
some roots. (Those taro grow like freaking crazy here!) Then i
emptied the upper pond and caught the 3 remaining goldfish and plunked
them into the bottom pond. (That additive said it was fish ready
immediately) I shop vacced the top pond and filled and conditioned
it. I can probably actually go buy a few fish for it now. All that
took me up until dark and about 57 mosquito bites. (Off Schmoff) So i
propped the hose up with a rock over the top pond where the new
waterfall will be, and turned on the pump. Last i checked, the fish
were played chase.

I would like to thank you for your help. The answers may have been
easy, but i had no idea how much sludgey crap was in the bottom pond
and no wonder i every fish.

LIVE AND LEARN - I have learned plenty and will go on someday to
help my friends with their ponds.









On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:57:18 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

The water fall is acting as a skimmer for the top pond and all the
dust,
dirt, debris that lands on the pond, plus any floating plant material
all go
over the water fall to the small pond at the bottom. The pump will
recirculate some of this stuff, since it will be dispersed through
the water
column. The bottom pond will fill with muck, mulm, fairly quickly
and needs
to be cleaned regularly. When I started out, I had a similar setup
to
yours, and then added a 1500 gallon liner pond to the mix, and then
the
amount of mulm built up very quickly in the bottom pond.

You really need a solids handling pump that you can put on the bottom
of the
small lower pond and then have the water circulated through some form
of
filter that can be easily cleaned, or you will be cleaning the bottom
pond
very often, or you will be building pockets of hydrogen sulfide gas
that
will kill fish, if you want to have fish in the lower pond. If you
don't
mind not having fish in the lower pond, then it can be a settling
tank,
setting the pump intake near the surface, and as material builds up,
turn
off the pump, use a shop vac or similar to clean the pond and then
refill
the bottom pond and restart the system.