Not promoting the product or anything but have you checked into the
sprayed polyurea ponds........no painting needed as it can be colored
to whatever color you want. I would think it would be on par pricewise
as gunite.

On 17 Mar 2005 12:20:44 -0800, wrote:

===hi, we're building a pond this year out of gunite and plan to keep koi
===in it. are there issues we should be aware of with respect to toxicity
===(or anything harmful)? we plan to paint the pond black and have
===several water plants.
===
===thanks


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

Polyurea is a spray on liner.....There are quite a few different brand
names for the stuff but its all polyurea. A lot fdepends on the soil
its applied to. Some soils need a geotextile backing material, others
do not.

I know of a lot of folks that have had polyureas ponds made and they
all like it........Be sure to do you r homework on the company that
you choose for one however. While it seems the material itself is the
same, there are many many methods for application of the material. At
present there really is no set of standards that apply, only the
references from folks that have them and the company itself in regards
to its reputation.

There is quite a bit of info regarding polyureas spray in liner ponds
on koiphen.com. Well worth looking at if your interested in a poly
pond.



On 18 Mar 2005 02:45:59 -0800, wrote:

===hi, has anyone had any success with spray on liners. is this something
===an installer needs to do or is it a diyer? if the former, any recs for
===someone to be able to do this in the Northern VA (DC) area?. i assume
===a gunite shell (or similar) would still need to be made before applying
===this spray on liner.
===
===thanks!


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

On 18 Mar 2005 02:45:59 -0800, wrote:

===hi, has anyone had any success with spray on liners.

There was a good article on these in KOI USA, I think it was the Jan/Feb
issue. You want someone who knows what they're doing, that's for sure.
~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

anyone know what they're doing in DC/No VA area? :-)

wrote in message
oups.com...
hi, we're building a pond this year out of gunite and plan to keep koi
in it. are there issues we should be aware of with respect to toxicity
(or anything harmful)? we plan to paint the pond black and have
several water plants.

How does the price of gunite compare to an EPDM liner? Specifically, if
all the prep such as rebar and mesh is already in place. I have concerns
about a certain swimming yard mammal and her claws if I just use a liner.

How does the price of gunite compare to an EPDM liner? Specifically, if
all the prep such as rebar and mesh is already in place. I have concerns
about a certain swimming yard mammal and her claws if I just use a liner.

The Koi USA article was in the Nov/Dec issue. "Polyurea Elastomer Spray
Liners: Wow!" by Nancy Moore & Lucy Macneil. Tim Zuber is the VP of Applied
Resin Technology, Inc., in Woodinville, WA he can be reached at
(425-483-0323) or

As far as durability, "The strength and elasticity of the product do make
it nearly immune to damage." Then they talk about the time they went to set
a 7,000+ lb. granite rock and the track hoe operator, at full extension of
his machine, lost control of the stone and it dropped 9'. The rounded end
landing in an area approx. 12"X18", punching a crater in the substrate
(gravel over the liner) a foot deep, the liner was unharmed. There is a
picture of this, btw. One of the few times having rocks (as a cushion) on
the bottom of the pond was a good thing. There was no water in the pond, so
thankfully no critters either. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I know a fellow who did a lot of reasearch and spent a ot of time on
building his pond. He went with spray on polyurea, and lives in
Virginia........Guess its oging on its second year now, and its great
looking. This felllow is quite a nit picker and he is satisfied. I
know he posted the entire deal from start to finish on koiphen.com,
but do not know if he has a website (sort of doubt he does) but the
info is still available on Koiphen.com

On 19 Mar 2005 02:37:08 -0800, wrote:

===anyone know what they're doing in DC/No VA area? :-)


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

If you want to see the schematics of the President of the Midwest Koi
Club's pond you can go he http://www.pondkoi.com/opp_0001.htm

You can also email him and he loves to help.

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
How does the price of gunite compare to an EPDM liner? Specifically,
if
all the prep such as rebar and mesh is already in place. I have concerns
about a certain swimming yard mammal and her claws if I just use a liner.

The Koi USA article was in the Nov/Dec issue. "Polyurea Elastomer Spray
Liners: Wow!" by Nancy Moore & Lucy Macneil. Tim Zuber is the VP of
Applied
Resin Technology, Inc., in Woodinville, WA he can be reached at
(425-483-0323) or

As far as durability, "The strength and elasticity of the product do make
it nearly immune to damage." Then they talk about the time they went to
set
a 7,000+ lb. granite rock and the track hoe operator, at full extension of
his machine, lost control of the stone and it dropped 9'. The rounded end
landing in an area approx. 12"X18", punching a crater in the substrate
(gravel over the liner) a foot deep, the liner was unharmed. There is a
picture of this, btw. One of the few times having rocks (as a cushion) on
the bottom of the pond was a good thing. There was no water in the pond,
so
thankfully no critters either. ~ jan

I guess my question was confusing considering the thread drift to two
different spray-on products and the comparison to EPDM irrelevant. I should
have just asked how expensive a gunite installation was, which is the
concrete spray-on stuff.
But, thanks for the info on the polyurea application. I prefer less
plastic, more natural, but it does sound like this stuff is tough. It also
ties in with kathy's link to natural swimming pools, as I can't imagine
staying out of the water when temperatures get hot here, as well as the
swimming dog.

hey roy, do you have a link or name? i tried searching the forums at
koiphen with little success.

thanks

Look at the MAKC Web page http://www.makc.com/ and there is a link on the
right of executive members and committees. I personally know Wayne, Art,
David and Floyd are knowledgeable about the members with concrete ponds in
the Northern Virginia Area, the problems and benefits, and most of the
installers. These should be good sources. I listed first names only, but
they are the only ones with those first names.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"small fish" wrote in message
news:1111275769.db623e4a640d82a5778a51269a3eb826@t eranews...

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
How does the price of gunite compare to an EPDM liner? Specifically,
if
all the prep such as rebar and mesh is already in place. I have concerns
about a certain swimming yard mammal and her claws if I just use a
liner.

The Koi USA article was in the Nov/Dec issue. "Polyurea Elastomer Spray
Liners: Wow!" by Nancy Moore & Lucy Macneil. Tim Zuber is the VP of
Applied
Resin Technology, Inc., in Woodinville, WA he can be reached at
(425-483-0323) or

As far as durability, "The strength and elasticity of the product do make
it nearly immune to damage." Then they talk about the time they went to
set
a 7,000+ lb. granite rock and the track hoe operator, at full extension
of
his machine, lost control of the stone and it dropped 9'. The rounded end
landing in an area approx. 12"X18", punching a crater in the substrate
(gravel over the liner) a foot deep, the liner was unharmed. There is a
picture of this, btw. One of the few times having rocks (as a cushion) on
the bottom of the pond was a good thing. There was no water in the pond,
so
thankfully no critters either. ~ jan

I guess my question was confusing considering the thread drift to two
different spray-on products and the comparison to EPDM irrelevant. I
should
have just asked how expensive a gunite installation was, which is the
concrete spray-on stuff.
But, thanks for the info on the polyurea application. I prefer less
plastic, more natural, but it does sound like this stuff is tough. It also
ties in with kathy's link to natural swimming pools, as I can't imagine
staying out of the water when temperatures get hot here, as well as the
swimming dog.

There are also paint-on water based latex liners that can be directly
applied to concrete that seal out the lime that leeches back into the
water.

It's relativly cheap, looks a LOT better than a 'tarp' liner, and is
actually LEGAL in all 50 states. Out here in California there are a lot
of EPA guidelines etc... that make the toxic based illegal (not that
you should be using them anyway).

I've used them and their not much worse than plain latex. Liquid latex
uses amonia to make it set. It's a bit stinky, but it's not all that
bad compared.

If you want to know more, please drop me a line.

what the heck is gunite anyway?

webmaster
http://www.pondkoi.com

Gunite or shot-crete is pneumatically placed concrete, where it is sprayed
against the soil, or against a form, trimmed to shape and finished. No
major formwork required. Also allows for more natural curves than plywood
does.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

wrote in message
ups.com...
what the heck is gunite anyway?

webmaster
http://www.pondkoi.com

RichToyBox wrote:

Gunite or shot-crete is pneumatically placed concrete, where it is sprayed
against the soil, or against a form, trimmed to shape and finished. No
major formwork required. Also allows for more natural curves than plywood
does.

Well, duh! I've known for years _what_ gunite was, but it never occurred to
me that it actually was called that because of the use of a "gun". Really,
language doesn't _have_ to be complex! Thanks, Rich.
--
derek