George wrote:


Mark B.


Was it the anti-bacterial kind? If so, you may have big problems getting
beneficial bacteria started, as this stuff takes quite a while to degrade.



No, just the regular stuff thank goodness.

I had always thought putting any soap in a pond or aquarium was a super
bad idea. But then, my boss told me yesterday that his uncle has a
large koi pond and was cleaning it this past weekend. Every year, he
takes the fish out, scrubs the liner bare (removing all the good
stuff), and then washes the pond with Joy dishwashing soap!! He
rinses, refills with city water (no dechlorinator), waits a few days,
puts the fish back and claims he NEVER has a problem. Somehow, I just
don't believe it!!!!!!!

Robyn
fishpondinfo.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
What I would do is buy a small pump and have it hooked up to a hose.
Lay it on the empty pond bottom and have the disharge hose feet a long
ways from your pond so the sudsy water would never drain back toward
your pond in a heavy rain. Then I would take a garden hose and start
spraying the entire pond. Once I got about 50 gallons of water in the
pond bottom I would start the drain pump and get rid of the water. I
would repeat this process until I saw that there was no sudsy water.
Then I would do it a couple of more times just to be safe.

After that initial cleanup I would get a large mesh bag and fill it
with Zeolite or Activated Charcoal and then put a couple of rocks in
the bag and sit it into the waterfalls filter. Then I would fill the
pond and run it for a few days. I would then dump the Zeolite/Charcoal
and drain the pond completely one last time. Fill the pond back up and
add another bag of new Zeolite/Charcoal and then let the pond operate
normally.

Paul
www.pondkoi.com


The difficulty in ridding the pond of soap is a prime example why using it in
the first place is a VERY BAD IDEA.

dkat wrote:

Vinegar and time. You would not want fish in your pond until plants
had
been in it for a bit anyway. The soap is alkaline (use to be made of
lye) -

Nah. Liquid hand dishwashing "soap" isn't really soap. It's near
neutral pH.

Ok, so you inspired me to go out and search for what is necessary for neutralizing
dishwashing soap (vinegar does) but on the travels I came across this..... I'm
sure I'm all that thrilled that I did.

1.) According to EPA, North American's worst Air Pollution is

A. Inside the Home
B. Outside the Home

2.) According to a 15 year study which type of people suffer a higher death rate
from cancer? A. Women who work at home
B. Men who work with asbestos
C. People who work in Factories

3.) What is the leading cause of poisonings in the home for children under the age
of 6?

A. Food Poision
B. Liquid Dish Detergent

4.) When buying products in the grocery store, we can know they are safe by the
ingredients on the label?
True/False

5.) Companies that claim to use "all natural" ingredients have the best products
for our family and the environment?

6.) In consumer products, the most harmful ingredients are the active or inactive
ingredients?

7.) Name 3 ways harmful chemicals can enter the human body?

8.) Which of these ways do you believe is the most common form of poisoning?

9.) Ever heard of Formaldehyde? It is a cheap preservative but also listed as a
possible carcinogen. EXPLAIN MSDS The MSDS for formaldehyde warns that it may be
fatal if inhaled, swallowed, or absorbed through skin; causes burns, inhalation
can cause spasms, fluid buildup of the larynx and bronchi, and extremely
destructive

*WOMEN WHO WORK AT HOME* According to a 15 year study women who work at home
suffer a 55% higher death rate from cancer than women who work outside the home.
to tissue of the mucous membrane. Which of these products do you think contains
formaldehyde?

A. Johnsons's Baby Shampoo
B. Dove Soap
C. Toothpastes
D. All of the above

10.) Many people have been told to beware of aerosols. why?

A. They send a fine mist of toxic chemicals into the air that is easily inhaled
and absorbed
B. A coating of toxic chemicals are left on surfaces where children crawl and play
and adults eat and sleep

C. You might get burnt
D. Aerosol cans can explode
E. All of the above

11.) The leading cause of death among children ages one to four is: A. Accidental
shooting
B. Accidental poisoning
C. Birth defects
1)*INSIDE THE HOME*

According to EPA, North American's worst Air Pollution is inside our homes.
Airborne hazardous and toxic chemicals inside urban and rural homes are with
concentrations 2-5 times higher than levels outdoors.

2)*WOMEN WHO WORK AT HOME*

According to a 15 year study women who work at home suffer a 55% higher death rate
from cancer than women who work outside the home.

3)*LIQUID DISH DETERGENT*

Liquid Dish Soap is the leading cause of poisonings in the home for children under
the age of 6 (over 2.1 million accidental poisonings per year) (contains
formaldehyde and ammonia in most brands) - You could probably say from this that
Dawn Dish Detergent is the #1 poisoner since it is the TOP SELLING Brand.

4)*FALSE*

When we pick up a product at the local grocery store, most of us would like to
think we are getting something that has been tested and proven to be safe.
You would think we have laws to protect our health and safety but there is no law
that requiremanufacturers to list the exact ingredients on the package labels of
consumer products In fact chemical names are often disguised by using harmless
sounding "trade names" So even if the chemical IS on the label, you may not
recognize it for what it is. Often times the inactive ingredients are the most
harmful.

5)*NOT NECESSARILY!!*
Some companies claim to use all natural ingredients but in today's marketing the
term "natural" is often misused. Natural doesn't necessarily mean "healthy" or
even "safe". After all "arsenic" is natural.

6)*TRICK QUESTION* - It could be "either"/b * Active ingredients in products
such as Lysol, Tide, Cascade, etc. can be very harmful.
Interestingly enough, a company is not required to list all of the inactive
ingredients in their products which are often covered by the same "trade secret
laws" like Coca Cola. However in some products the inactive ingredients can
actually be more hazardous to your health then the active ingredients. You may
never know from the label!

7)*INGESTION, INHALATION, ABSORPTION THROUGH THE SKIN*

8*INHALATION*
Most people think of "ingestion" when they think of poisoning.
Although this is common, poisoning by inhalation is actually more common. When
something harmful is swallowed, the stomach actually begins breaking down and
neutralizing the poison before it is absorbed through the blood stream. But when
you inhale toxic fumes, the poisons go directly into the bloodstream and quickly
travel to organs like the brain, heart, liver, and kidneys.
Many products give off toxic vapors which can irritate your eyes, nose, throat,
and lungs, give you headaches, muscle aches, and sinus infections.

The process of releasing vapors into the air is called outgassing. This occurs
when a chemical is tightly sealed in its container. You can notice this when
walking down the cleaning aisle at your local grocery store.

Many medicines work by being absorbed into the bloodstream through the skin. Look
at the Nicotenepatch.
Any chemical that touches the skin can be absorbed and spread throughout the body.
This can even happen when you come in contact with a surface that was treated with
a chemical days, or even weeks earlier. Some cleaning products leave a dangerous
lingering toxicity. This can be as simple as a young child crawling across a floor
that was mopped with a cleaner even days earlier.

9)*ALL OF THE ABOVE*
If you look at labels you will not find the word "formaldehyde" on the label. For
example... Quaternium 15 is a formaldehyde releasing agent and is found in many
personal care soaps, shampoos, toothpastes etc.

10)*ALL OF THE ABOVE*
The chemical ingredients of many aerosol sprays are toxic, and the fine mist makes
them easy to be inhaled and absorbed which can be more harmful than ingestion.
Some products may have active ingredients that are not harmful in themselves, but
the cans they are sprayed from often use propellants that are toxic.
For example, vinyl chloride - one of the most common propellants - can cause
dizziness, lack of coordination, headaches, blurred vision, nausea, and even
death. Additionally, the propellants used are often highly flammable and could be
accidentally ignited easily. Finally, even old aerosol cans have been known to
explode when punctured. One 8 year old boy used a hammer and nail to puncture an
old aerosol can. The can exploded, hurling pieces of metal into his face and upper
chest, cutting him severely.

11)*BIRTH DEFECTS*
According to the March of Dimes, one in twelve children is born with a congenital
defect. Environmental factors, including exposure to toxic chemicals, cause 7% to
11% of these defects.
Sixty percent of birth defects have unknown causes. Toxic chemicals are suspected
in these cases as well.

wrote:

dkat wrote:

Vinegar and time. You would not want fish in your pond until plants
had been in it for a bit anyway. The soap is alkaline (use to be
made of lye) -

Nah. Liquid hand dishwashing "soap" isn't really soap. It's near
neutral pH.

Here are the pHs of some popular "soaps":

Soap pH
Camay 9.5
Dial 9.5
Dove 7.0
Irish Spring 9.5
Ivory 9.5
Lever 2000 9.0
Palmolive 10.0
Zest 10.0

I think all liquid products are detergents. Soaps have the same
structures and work in the same way. The only real difference between
soap and detergent is that soap is made from natural materials, animal
fat and sodium hydroxide (lye).

The pH of a 1% solution of Joy Detergent is 8 based upon their MSDS.
http://www.pgbrands.com/pages/cleane...Detergent_.pdf

You can always get the MSDS of whatever product was used in the pond.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
18,000 gallon (17'x 47'x 2-4') lily pond garden in Zone 6
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

DKat wrote:

Ok, so you inspired me to go out and search for what is necessary for
neutralizing
dishwashing soap (vinegar does) but on the travels I came across this.....
I'm sure I'm all that thrilled that I did.

1.) According to EPA, North American's worst Air Pollution is

A. Inside the Home
B. Outside the Home

Inside - and moreso as more homes are made more air-tight

2.) According to a 15 year study which type of people suffer a higher
death rate from cancer? A. Women who work at home
B. Men who work with asbestos
C. People who work in Factories

Gotta be A.

3.) What is the leading cause of poisonings in the home for children under
the age of 6?

A. Food Poision
B. Liquid Dish Detergent

B

4.) When buying products in the grocery store, we can know they are safe
by the ingredients on the label?
True/False

Yeah, like how many people actually _understand_ the ingredients? Is
Dilithium triptate good for you or not?

5.) Companies that claim to use "all natural" ingredients have the best
products for our family and the environment?

Ack!

6.) In consumer products, the most harmful ingredients are the active or
inactive ingredients?

I don't know what the EPA says, but if inactive ingredients can be harmful,
they aren't inactive.


7.) Name 3 ways harmful chemicals can enter the human body?

Inhalation (breathing), ingestion (swallowing), absorption (skin or mucus
membrane contact)

8.) Which of these ways do you believe is the most common form of
poisoning?

Absorption.

9.) Ever heard of Formaldehyde?

You betcha. You should see the storage and use procedures for the stuff in
this facility.

It is a cheap preservative but also listed
as a possible carcinogen. EXPLAIN MSDS

Material Safety Data Sheet. Should tell you how to use and store it, what
to do about unsafe contact with it, and be posted in a known location where
the material is stored.

The MSDS for formaldehyde warns
that it may be fatal if inhaled, swallowed, or absorbed through skin;

Doh! Just gave away the answer to 7!

*WOMEN WHO WORK AT HOME* According to a 15 year study women who work at

#2!

home suffer a 55% higher death rate from cancer than women who work
outside the home. to tissue of the mucous membrane. Which of these
products do you think contains formaldehyde?

D. All of the above

Definitely D.

10.) Many people have been told to beware of aerosols. why?

E. All of the above

E.

11.) The leading cause of death among children ages one to four is: A.
Accidental shooting
B. Accidental poisoning
C. Birth defects

B
--
derek

My FIL took apart my skippy filter 2 years ago while I was away for the
weekend. I tossed the whole lot in the garbage (not inc my FIL) and
built myself a new bigger one.