On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:55:31 -0500, dave weil
wrote:


This is a good idea.

Glad you think so! As my daddy used to say, every now and then I show
a spark!

Actually, I went whole hog and planted *two* Don Juans under this tree
g.

I looked at your picture and had to laugh. You have given your Dons a
great deal to live up to! What about using one of those cylindrical
green coated wire things that have a kind of lattice work wire in
horizontals and verticals, around the trunk of the tree? Then as the
DJs grow you can just loop long cane ends under the wire in places.


And now, I've looked carefully at the tree and I realize that 10 - 12
ft. canes will cover most of the tree (it's a spindly little thing,
after all of the hacking that I did to it trying to save it). So, I
might be able to get away with *just* the Don Juans.[...]


The way this rose grows for me (and it will be largely the same for
you given our climatic similarities) if you just let it go, (e.g. grow
a while) then loop the long canes back on one another, you get a nice
mounding effect, especially when the laterals get started. Or perhaps
a better description of what I do is this: you have a bunch of long
canes waving around, some have fallen over, some have not yet. You put
on your gloves and take one on an outer edge of the plant and gently
bend it until some of its thorns "hook it" onto one of the canes that
is horizontal. The one that is horizontal gets "hooked" on the chain
link. There is actually nothing attaching my Don Juan to that fence
but itself. Get me? Yours are way too young for that. But the wire
thing (or even some long nails or "hoops?" driven into the dead tree)
would give you something to hook the canes to other than one another.



But you've got me thinking that growing Cecile Brunner CL on the other
side of the trunk might be cool, contrasting big red blooms with more
delicate small blossoms weaving in and out. Since I've got a *real*
specimen CB at the moment, I'd probably choose something different
(and a different color as well).

Yes! More roses is always better! MORE MORE MORE! (Oh, right, wait, I
forgot I was changing my philosophy. But I still think more on the
tree is a good idea because you want to cover it.)

I love red and pink together. Darker pinks, too. But then, I love red
and orange together, deep red and orange.

Speaking of luscious color combos--you have Granada, but do you have
Jude the Obscure? If you ever see the two of these in a vase together,
and SMELL them, you will be hooked. The butterscotch of Jude brings
out the yellows in Granada and contrasts with the red/cerise whatever
you call it. I want to turn you on to some other colors--some I find
interesting. Which brings me to this:

Pat Austin. Oh. No photo I have seen does it justice, but here are
some:

http://www.kalbus.de/sortiment.html

http://www.geocities.com/joroses_41/pataustin.html

http://www.gardenvalley.com/austins1.html

None of these capture the pale apricot and deep copper of mine. Yes,
it "blows" fast. Yes, it is spindley, I grow it as a climber. Yes, it
has a really weird fragrance. Yes, I adore it. It looks great in
combination with more colors that you can imagine in a vase. It keeps
your garden from being ho-hum, too. It ALSO looks fab with Granada.

Next year, I am getting more of the coppery colored roses, such as
Whiskey Mac and Brass Band. I want Austin's Happy Child, too. Pinks
and reds are good, but these coppery and gold and butterscotch roses
will make your toes tingle.





My problem with Sombreuil stems from the fact that it was a spindly
little thing when I got it (part of the reason that I don't order from
Vintage Gardens any more).


The single rose I ordered in duplicate from Vintage is STILL a foot
tall three years later, no sh*t. It is obviously proof that some roses
need to be grafted for added vigor. But I am never going to receive a
rose that small again in my life. Not as long as there is Roses
Unlimited, Muncy's, and Michaels. Although I hear Michael's may be
slipping.

I have to check my Sombreuil--I actually cannot remember if it is an
own root or not! I have a feeling it is a Muncy rose, or if grafted, I
bought it locally potted. I do remember it was not a bare root.


It's done surprisingly well in its third
season, and, as I've said, it's probably for the best, although I hope
to eventually create a wall of rose on the porch. I've got 10 foot
canes, but the ends aren't very vigorous.

My S. put on an impressive display up in the hoillies this year. But
it is planted next to DJ which would make any rose look wimpy. You
will recall that my DJ was a J&P BOXED rose, too! Honestly, it is my
favorite rose. You will never like the form if you must have a very
high center. But what it lacks in form it makes up for in petal
substance, velvety color, and vigor. Wunnerful wunnerful rose! A
climber that did not "sleep" at all in my garden, but went into the
ground "leaping" and has never stopped. Last blooms come in December,
first in March.



I guess I'm disappointed that it hasn't been nearly as vigorous as CB,
which was planted at the same time. CB has been really amazing in
terms of coverage. Here's a recent pic:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CBJune10.jpg

Yes, I love this rose. I plan to get into minis soon. (It is not, but
its blooms are!) Did you see Mack's Climbing Rainbow's End?

[...]

I've also planted a "President" clematis at the base of the tree (you
can barely see one of those little wooden "arbors" that come in the
pots of clematises). I'm hoping that it takes off, because the big
violet blooms will really make this thing look striking, I think.

Gorgeous! I have the President and one called Henryi??? Or something.
They're doing pretty well.


On the left, you can see the new Belami planting. There are three
there, and I think that a good 6 foot "bush" of Belami will be pretty
striking in and of itself, plus, it will give me dozens and dozens of
blooms. I can see you thinking, "*Great*, a 6 foot bush of dozens of
pink HTs...well, at least they smell great..."

Pink clearly floats your boat. Taste varies widely. Keeps it
interesting, right?



Boy, am I vebose this morning...

We should form a club. G

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:51:06 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:55:31 -0500, dave weil
wrote:


This is a good idea.

Glad you think so! As my daddy used to say, every now and then I show
a spark!

Actually, I went whole hog and planted *two* Don Juans under this tree
g.

I looked at your picture and had to laugh. You have given your Dons a
great deal to live up to! What about using one of those cylindrical
green coated wire things that have a kind of lattice work wire in
horizontals and verticals, around the trunk of the tree? Then as the
DJs grow you can just loop long cane ends under the wire in places.


And now, I've looked carefully at the tree and I realize that 10 - 12
ft. canes will cover most of the tree (it's a spindly little thing,
after all of the hacking that I did to it trying to save it). So, I
might be able to get away with *just* the Don Juans.[...]


The way this rose grows for me (and it will be largely the same for
you given our climatic similarities) if you just let it go, (e.g. grow
a while) then loop the long canes back on one another, you get a nice
mounding effect, especially when the laterals get started. Or perhaps
a better description of what I do is this: you have a bunch of long
canes waving around, some have fallen over, some have not yet. You put
on your gloves and take one on an outer edge of the plant and gently
bend it until some of its thorns "hook it" onto one of the canes that
is horizontal. The one that is horizontal gets "hooked" on the chain
link. There is actually nothing attaching my Don Juan to that fence
but itself. Get me? Yours are way too young for that. But the wire
thing (or even some long nails or "hoops?" driven into the dead tree)
would give you something to hook the canes to other than one another.

Yes, this is what I did with CB. There is absolutely *no* attachment
to the tree anywhere. It's all just canes looped around each other and
canes wrapped into crooks of branches.

And actually, although you can't see it, I actually used a long
straight fishing pole cane from Aloha and propped it up right over one
of the plants from the ground to the tree at about a 45 degree angle.
I'm growing it up that cane to the tree and, considering how vigorous
it is, it won't be long until the cane is long enough to hook into the
junction of the branches and the trunk. I then did the same with a
regular tree branch on the left hand plant.

And speaking of Aloha, I'm estatic as I just noticed some new growth
on a cutting that I took. I'm not holding my breath, but I might just
have a new plant!

But you've got me thinking that growing Cecile Brunner CL on the other
side of the trunk might be cool, contrasting big red blooms with more
delicate small blossoms weaving in and out. Since I've got a *real*
specimen CB at the moment, I'd probably choose something different
(and a different color as well).

Yes! More roses is always better! MORE MORE MORE! (Oh, right, wait, I
forgot I was changing my philosophy. But I still think more on the
tree is a good idea because you want to cover it.)

Well, we'll see what happens this year before we do anything.

I love red and pink together. Darker pinks, too. But then, I love red
and orange together, deep red and orange.

I was thinking that red and yellow would just be outstanding. Hmmmmm,
wonder if I should move Graham Thomas over. It's already a good sized
bush (almost 5 feet now). I could get it to go grow up about 10 feet.
It wouldn't solve the upper branches problem, but I can always lop
those off anyway.

Speaking of luscious color combos--you have Granada,

No I don't.

but do you have Jude the Obscure?

No I don't.

If you ever see the two of these in a vase together,
and SMELL them, you will be hooked. The butterscotch of Jude brings
out the yellows in Granada and contrasts with the red/cerise whatever
you call it. I want to turn you on to some other colors--some I find
interesting. Which brings me to this:

I think that Desert Peace has more than enough organge, yellow, red.
whatever for my yard. I doubt I'll be bringing in any more of those
color combinations (especially since I'll be dragging Joseph's Coat
out into the light at the end of the season.

Pat Austin. Oh. No photo I have seen does it justice, but here are
some:

http://www.kalbus.de/sortiment.html

http://www.geocities.com/joroses_41/pataustin.html

http://www.gardenvalley.com/austins1.html

None of these capture the pale apricot and deep copper of mine. Yes,
it "blows" fast. Yes, it is spindley, I grow it as a climber. Yes, it
has a really weird fragrance. Yes, I adore it. It looks great in
combination with more colors that you can imagine in a vase. It keeps
your garden from being ho-hum, too. It ALSO looks fab with Granada.

I like that but I think that I'll just stay with Grapham Thomas as
being my Austin rep (at least for a while).

Next year, I am getting more of the coppery colored roses, such as
Whiskey Mac and Brass Band. I want Austin's Happy Child, too. Pinks
and reds are good, but these coppery and gold and butterscotch roses
will make your toes tingle.

I'm starting to rattle around in my mind what I'm going to buy next
year. I still haven't decided how to start tying in the various
plantings and what colors to do that with...

My problem with Sombreuil stems from the fact that it was a spindly
little thing when I got it (part of the reason that I don't order from
Vintage Gardens any more).


The single rose I ordered in duplicate from Vintage is STILL a foot
tall three years later, no sh*t. It is obviously proof that some roses
need to be grafted for added vigor. But I am never going to receive a
rose that small again in my life. Not as long as there is Roses
Unlimited, Muncy's, and Michaels. Although I hear Michael's may be
slipping.

I feel the same way. When I saw that runt, and calculated the shipping
charges, which made the $14 rose something like $30, I decided that if
I was going to pay that much for a rose, I was damn well going to get
something that looked good when I unwrapped it.

I have to check my Sombreuil--I actually cannot remember if it is an
own root or not! I have a feeling it is a Muncy rose, or if grafted, I
bought it locally potted. I do remember it was not a bare root.


It's done surprisingly well in its third
season, and, as I've said, it's probably for the best, although I hope
to eventually create a wall of rose on the porch. I've got 10 foot
canes, but the ends aren't very vigorous.

My S. put on an impressive display up in the hoillies this year.

I got a good flush with only a little bit of balling. However, my beef
is more with the structure of the plant. I'll grudgingly have to admit
that it seems to be appropriate for the space though. I've just got
such profuse climbers like Old Blush and The Fairy that I was hoping
for the same sort of coverage.

But it is planted next to DJ which would make any rose look wimpy. You
will recall that my DJ was a J&P BOXED rose, too! Honestly, it is my
favorite rose. You will never like the form if you must have a very
high center. But what it lacks in form it makes up for in petal
substance, velvety color, and vigor. Wunnerful wunnerful rose! A
climber that did not "sleep" at all in my garden, but went into the
ground "leaping" and has never stopped. Last blooms come in December,
first in March.

I'm warming up to it, that's for sure.

I guess I'm disappointed that it hasn't been nearly as vigorous as CB,
which was planted at the same time. CB has been really amazing in
terms of coverage. Here's a recent pic:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CBJune10.jpg

Yes, I love this rose. I plan to get into minis soon. (It is not, but
its blooms are!) Did you see Mack's Climbing Rainbow's End?

[...]

I've also planted a "President" clematis at the base of the tree (you
can barely see one of those little wooden "arbors" that come in the
pots of clematises). I'm hoping that it takes off, because the big
violet blooms will really make this thing look striking, I think.

Gorgeous! I have the President and one called Henryi??? Or something.
They're doing pretty well.


On the left, you can see the new Belami planting. There are three
there, and I think that a good 6 foot "bush" of Belami will be pretty
striking in and of itself, plus, it will give me dozens and dozens of
blooms. I can see you thinking, "*Great*, a 6 foot bush of dozens of
pink HTs...well, at least they smell great..."

Pink clearly floats your boat. Taste varies widely. Keeps it
interesting, right?

I *do* like pink, but it's been more serendipity than design. I bought
Brunner without even knowing what color the bloom was. I bought it
because it said "Climber" and I had a dead tree to climb.

Belami spoke to me from the Edmund's catalog for some reason. Don't
know why, as it's not the most impressive looking rose. I think I
liked it because it wasn't a huge bloom like the rest of them. I
thought it'd look good in vase. Of course, as it turns out, it gets
fairly large and spread as it ages.

When I saw that Edmunds was having the big end of season sale, I
started asking myself, what would I like to anchor the front? What
would go well with CB? The ones that I thought about were sold out and
I kept coming back to Belami, having had some experience with it.

Boy, am I vebose this morning...

We should form a club. G

Now, we have to invent a secret handshake.