So pleased to have found this group!!!!!!!
Could someone please tell me what causes thin stems which do not support
the flowers ? Thanks, Richard

Richard Oliver wrote:

So pleased to have found this group!!!!!!!

Welcome! It's been quiet lately, but it usually is during the winter holidays.


Could someone please tell me what causes thin stems which do not support
the flowers ? Thanks, Richard

1. Youth

2. Heredity

3. Larger-than-average blooms

My first rose, a hybrid tea called Lagerfeld, was the
worst I had seen. It got a little better with age (you
should give any rose at least three years of good
cultivation before you toss it) but still has delicate
stems.

Many David Austin roses, because they are bred to have huge,
many-petaled blooms, also tend to "nod."

Want to ell us where you are, what you like in a rose, and
what you are growing now? Someone might have some
suggestions for you.

I don't think there are any nutrients that strengthen
stems. Nitrogen is the main ingredient in any rose
chow, it is for the green parts, but can be overdone
at the expense of the blooms, I think.

If I am wrong I believe someone will point it out.

Thank you so much for your so interesting reply.Your reasons for the
thin stems are correct I am sure and seeing that we feed all our roses
exactly the same ,I would say that the heredity reason is probably the
one as only one plant (Pretoria)has the problem.
We live in a suburb of Cape Town South Africa and have a dozen
roses which we just love and usually pick several vases full every day.
Because of the size of our garden we have several of our roses in tubs.
This year they have not done as well and as most of them have been in
(large) tubs for about ten years we decided to repot and renew a few of
them.
Most of our plants are hybrid teas----
Brides Dream-----Ester Geldenhys-----Cora Marie----Caroline de Monaco
Papa Meilland---Pretoria---Summer Lady---Andrea Stelzer--and of course
Peace.
We also have a climber and two multiflora---
Johannesberg Garden Club and Mr Duncan
(Cannot make out where you are from).
Thank you again for your kind assistance,Richard and Maureen Oliver


On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 10:02:58 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:

Richard Oliver wrote:

So pleased to have found this group!!!!!!!

Welcome! It's been quiet lately, but it usually is during the winter
holidays.


Could someone please tell me what causes thin stems which do not support
the flowers ? Thanks, Richard

1. Youth

2. Heredity

3. Larger-than-average blooms

My first rose, a hybrid tea called Lagerfeld, was the
worst I had seen. It got a little better with age (you
should give any rose at least three years of good
cultivation before you toss it) but still has delicate
stems.

Many David Austin roses, because they are bred to have huge,
many-petaled blooms, also tend to "nod."

Want to ell us where you are, what you like in a rose, and
what you are growing now? Someone might have some
suggestions for you.

I don't think there are any nutrients that strengthen
stems. Nitrogen is the main ingredient in any rose
chow, it is for the green parts, but can be overdone
at the expense of the blooms, I think.

If I am wrong I believe someone will point it out.

Richard Oliver wrote:

Thank you so much for your so interesting reply.

You're welcome, I'm so pleased to hear from someone from
so far away! I am in Raleigh, North Carolina.


I would say that the heredity reason is probably the
one as only one plant (Pretoria)has the problem.

I had a look at this one at the helmefind.com site. There
are three entries with this word in it, and no known
suppliers. Is your Pretoria the orange/red one released
in 1953? And do you have a photo? There is no photo at that
site and I bet they would love to have one. Also, where did
you get your Pretoria? Perhaps you might suggest a supplier
to the helpmefind people?


We live in a suburb of Cape Town South Africa and have a dozen
roses which we just love and usually pick several vases full every day.

Aha! Another vase person! I love to have fresh roses in the house. Garden
roses, not florist, because I like scent!


Because of the size of our garden we have several of our roses in tubs.
This year they have not done as well and as most of them have been in
(large) tubs for about ten years we decided to repot and renew a few of
them.

Lots of hard work, and thorny, too. I'm glad you said "we," because
I have learned that it is nearly impossible to repot a matureish rose
alone.

Most of our plants are hybrid teas----
Brides Dream-----Ester Geldenhys-----Cora Marie----Caroline de Monaco
Papa Meilland---Pretoria---Summer Lady---Andrea Stelzer--and of course
Peace.
We also have a climber and two multiflora---
Johannesberg Garden Club and Mr Duncan

Your garden sounds lovely to me. You have some I have never seen, I
will go to helpmefind.com and look them up.I really like hybrid teas for
cutting, (i.e. the BLOOMS!) though I am not fond about how most
look in the garden. I've been shifting the hts to the back and putting more
floribundas and shrub roses in the front.

I would like to try Papa Meiland.

I am curious, can you tell us how your climate is?

Thank you again for your kind assistance,Richard and Maureen Oliver

I really hope we hear more from you. I do not recall having
anyone post from South Africa in the last few years! You make
a very nice addition to the group.

Another thought about thin stems.

There is a growth hormone in the product 'Super Thrive' that is also found
in alfalfa meal that enlongate the growth of rose stems/canes. My
experience is that this produces weak canes that are easily damaged by wind.

In the case of the alfalfa meal, the fourth cutting each season has the
greatest amount of the hormone. Without doing some research, my memory says
that it is an alcohol.

Tim

"Shiva" wrote:
I don't think there are any nutrients that strengthen
stems. Nitrogen is the main ingredient in any rose
chow, it is for the green parts, but can be overdone
at the expense of the blooms, I think.

If I am wrong I believe someone will point it out.

I thought that potash was needed for healthy stems, but
then again I don't have much in my soil and weak stems
have not been much of a problem. As is typical for my
part of Florida, phosphate is excessive, pH very low,
nitrogen left as an exercise to the gardener.

Mark., I've been known to take a leak next to rosebushes
(nitrogen) and scatter potassium-chloride water-softener
pellets around them (potash), though

Thank you all again for the most interesting and thought-provoking
replies.

Our weather in Cape Town is California type (Mediterranean, winter
rainfall) with strong winds in our coastal area.

Shiva,I was most interested to hear that you are in Raleigh ,having
spent much time in your beautiful and friendly Carolina whilst working
for the International division of Burlington Industries.
I worked mostly out of Greensboro but travelled extensively to the
various Hosiery Mills around the South.
Many,many wonderful memories of a really wonderful Country,Company and
Southern hospitality !!!!!! " Yall "

I will try to get some Photographs of our Roses and send them to you.
Thank you for the helpmefind.com address--I will certainly have a look
at it.

The Pretoria Rose that we have is freely available at any of our
nurseries and is Dark Red no Orange.

Maureen uses the petals of Pretoria and Papa Meilland in a pot-pourri
on the dining room table as the scents are really great.

Once again thank all------you seem a really nice group of people !!!

Richard



Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:02:36 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:

Richard Oliver wrote:

Thank you so much for your so interesting reply.

You're welcome, I'm so pleased to hear from someone from
so far away! I am in Raleigh, North Carolina.


I would say that the heredity reason is probably the
one as only one plant (Pretoria)has the problem.

I had a look at this one at the helmefind.com site. There
are three entries with this word in it, and no known
suppliers. Is your Pretoria the orange/red one released
in 1953? And do you have a photo? There is no photo at that
site and I bet they would love to have one. Also, where did
you get your Pretoria? Perhaps you might suggest a supplier
to the helpmefind people?


We live in a suburb of Cape Town South Africa and have a dozen
roses which we just love and usually pick several vases full every day.

Aha! Another vase person! I love to have fresh roses in the house.
Garden
roses, not florist, because I like scent!


Because of the size of our garden we have several of our roses in tubs.
This year they have not done as well and as most of them have been in
(large) tubs for about ten years we decided to repot and renew a few of
them.

Lots of hard work, and thorny, too. I'm glad you said "we," because
I have learned that it is nearly impossible to repot a matureish rose
alone.

Most of our plants are hybrid teas----
Brides Dream-----Ester Geldenhys-----Cora Marie----Caroline de Monaco
Papa Meilland---Pretoria---Summer Lady---Andrea Stelzer--and of course
Peace.
We also have a climber and two multiflora---
Johannesberg Garden Club and Mr Duncan

Your garden sounds lovely to me. You have some I have never seen, I
will go to helpmefind.com and look them up.I really like hybrid teas for
cutting, (i.e. the BLOOMS!) though I am not fond about how most
look in the garden. I've been shifting the hts to the back and putting
more
floribundas and shrub roses in the front.

I would like to try Papa Meiland.

I am curious, can you tell us how your climate is?

Thank you again for your kind assistance,Richard and Maureen Oliver

I really hope we hear more from you. I do not recall having
anyone post from South Africa in the last few years! You make
a very nice addition to the group.

http://www.pswdistrict.org/text/articlescontent.html

The link attached has numerous articles on rose care and the results of
N-P-K on the roses.

Since you cut your roses often, where you cut them may be the cause of
the thin stems. A rule of thumb is that the cane growing from where you
cut will be half the size of the cane you cut..... A thought. You may
wish to cut the roses further down the cane then trim under water for
your vase.

ben

Richard Oliver wrote:
So pleased to have found this group!!!!!!!
Could someone please tell me what causes thin stems which do not support
the flowers ? Thanks, Richard

ben boorman wrote:

http://www.pswdistrict.org/text/articlescontent.html

The link attached has numerous articles on rose care and the results of
N-P-K on the roses.

Since you cut your roses often, where you cut them may be the cause of
the thin stems. A rule of thumb is that the cane growing from where you
cut will be half the size of the cane you cut..... A thought. You may
wish to cut the roses further down the cane then trim under water for
your vase.

ben

Ben, I have to say, this sounds like a load of hooey to me. I have
never seen this in my garden, and I cut roses every day during the season.