torgo wrote in message . ..
I've had pretty good luck getting those bargain baggie roses up and
running. And I don't get the first ones off the truck, either. I
"rescue" the last refugees still on the rack just to see if I can keep
them alive. I usually can, no matter how bad they are when I get
them.

The usual caveats apply though: you didn't really buy a pair of
Double Delights and a QE climber. You only bought labels that say
those things, and those labels are wrong something like 15% of the
time. Maybe more often than that. You won't know until your "Double
Delight" blooms yellow and the "Queen Elizabeth" makes a compact
little shrub with red flowers.

The best tip I'd give anyone trying their hand at the cheap bagged
stuff is to cut off the first flush of blooms immediately. These poor
roses had their roots hacked to virtually nothing when they were cut
out of the ground. They're two year old plants with the root stock of
a first season seedling. Until the roots have time to really get
going again, the effort required to support the blooms might kill the
entire plant. Cut those blooms off and let the plant put its energy
into growing instead.

I totally agree with the above advice if you must buy bagged roses,
which are generally a bad lot, particularly if you get them at a mass
merchandiser who neither knows nor cares about roses. I find in my
harsh climate, that no bagged rose ever lives to its second year
probably because the spindly roots can't support the plant, but if you
want to look at a year's worth of blossoms for $5, it's cheaper than
buying a dozen at the florists. Still, best to indulge your spring
impulses buying packs of seed in January and wait until the potted
roses come in in a few months.

That said, however, I had two bagged Peace roses that were given to me
given to me go wild, and whatever came up from the two root stocks are
now about seven feet tall and covered with several hundred pink single
blossoms from mid-June to freeze-up. It's one of the few times the
rootstock turned out better than the graft (although not being a
hybrid tea fan, the bar is set quite low.) I stuck an arbour around
them, planted some clematis and it's a showpiece. So you never know.

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:50:47 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:29:13 GMT, torgo
wrote:

The best tip I'd give anyone trying their hand at the cheap bagged
stuff is to cut off the first flush of blooms immediately. These poor
roses had their roots hacked to virtually nothing when they were cut
out of the ground. They're two year old plants with the root stock of
a first season seedling. Until the roots have time to really get
going again, the effort required to support the blooms might kill the
entire plant. Cut those blooms off and let the plant put its energy
into growing instead.

You know, I used to do this as well, but I didn't for some reason with
the Bel Amis that I posted a link to. I think that part of it was the
fact that each of the three plants threw about 5 -8 first buds
simultaneously and I didn't have the heart to trim them. As it turns
out, they bloomed profusely TWICE before the end of the year.

Of course, the question will be, how will they do making it through
the winter. So far, they seem to be fine.

So, I'm not sure if this guidance is always the best. It might depend
on the rose. I know one thing - if I had cut the first flush of the
Bel Amis, I would have definitely been cheated out of about 20 blooms,
and I'm not sure if there would have been much benefit. Having said
that, I'll have to evaluate how vigorous the plants are going to be in
the spring. I have no absolute way to judge them against a control
group, but I think it will be pretty apparent if their root structure
suffered because of excessive blooming the first year depriving the
plant of energy to the roots.

Just my .02.

My experience has been that it does indeed depend on the rose - not
the variety but the individual plant. If you're lucky and get one
with a halfway decent root system, let it bloom away. But if you get
one with the roots hacked to nothing, then a full first bloom flush
can easily be the death of the plant.

I lost a row of bagged Christian Diors that way because I followed the
instructions that came with some other own-root C. Diors that called
for no pruning or cutting of blooms for the first year. The bagged
ones put out a fantastic first wave of blooms - about six per plant on
the tiny little plants. Then all of them were stone dead within two
weeks.

If in doubt, I'd say let the buds form, then cut them just as they're
starting to open and put them in a vase inside. That way the plant
saves its energy and you still get to enjoy the blooms.

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 08:19:58 GMT, torgo
wrote:

, I'm not sure if this guidance is always the best. It might depend
on the rose. I know one thing - if I had cut the first flush of the
Bel Amis, I would have definitely been cheated out of about 20 blooms,
and I'm not sure if there would have been much benefit. Having said
that, I'll have to evaluate how vigorous the plants are going to be in
the spring. I have no absolute way to judge them against a control
group, but I think it will be pretty apparent if their root structure
suffered because of excessive blooming the first year depriving the
plant of energy to the roots.

Just my .02.

My experience has been that it does indeed depend on the rose - not
the variety but the individual plant. If you're lucky and get one
with a halfway decent root system, let it bloom away. But if you get
one with the roots hacked to nothing, then a full first bloom flush
can easily be the death of the plant.

Yeah, I sort of missed your comment about basing your advice on plants
with poor root systems.

Sorry to hear about the Diors.

The thing is, I always read the advice that every rose should be
deadheaded "at birth", even potted roses. Maybe I misunderstood the
advice, but I've decided to only take blooms if there's a first single
bloom. I did that with Portland from Glendorra and I'm glad I did. Of
course, that plant came as a very small twiglet with a root system
about the size of a walnut (it was a "banded" rose). So, I guess I
followed your advice after all...

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 08:19:58 GMT, torgo
wrote:

, I'm not sure if this guidance is always the best. It might depend
on the rose. I know one thing - if I had cut the first flush of the
Bel Amis, I would have definitely been cheated out of about 20 blooms,
and I'm not sure if there would have been much benefit. Having said
that, I'll have to evaluate how vigorous the plants are going to be in
the spring. I have no absolute way to judge them against a control
group, but I think it will be pretty apparent if their root structure
suffered because of excessive blooming the first year depriving the
plant of energy to the roots.

Just my .02.

My experience has been that it does indeed depend on the rose - not
the variety but the individual plant. If you're lucky and get one
with a halfway decent root system, let it bloom away. But if you get
one with the roots hacked to nothing, then a full first bloom flush
can easily be the death of the plant.

Yeah, I sort of missed your comment about basing your advice on plants
with poor root systems.

Sorry to hear about the Diors.

The thing is, I always read the advice that every rose should be
deadheaded "at birth", even potted roses. Maybe I misunderstood the
advice, but I've decided to only take blooms if there's a first single
bloom. I did that with Portland from Glendorra and I'm glad I did. Of
course, that plant came as a very small twiglet with a root system
about the size of a walnut (it was a "banded" rose). So, I guess I
followed your advice after all...

On 3 Feb 2004 14:52:36 -0800, (Dataminder) wrote:

I totally agree with the above advice if you must buy bagged roses,
which are generally a bad lot, particularly if you get them at a mass
merchandiser who neither knows nor cares about roses. I find in my
harsh climate, that no bagged rose ever lives to its second year
probably because the spindly roots can't support the plant, but if you
want to look at a year's worth of blossoms for $5, it's cheaper than
buying a dozen at the florists. Still, best to indulge your spring
impulses buying packs of seed in January and wait until the potted
roses come in in a few months.


Quite true. Another option is to search for pre-season sales. You
have to hunt, and not that many varieties will be true bargains, but
there are some great deals out there on plants that will be much
better specimens than the Rose Roulette in those awful sawdust packed
bags. (My favorite deal this year was Wayside Gardens putting gift
certificates on sale at 25% off in November, making every rose or
other plant they carry a sale item by default.)

That said, however, I had two bagged Peace roses that were given to me
given to me go wild, and whatever came up from the two root stocks are
now about seven feet tall and covered with several hundred pink single
blossoms from mid-June to freeze-up. It's one of the few times the
rootstock turned out better than the graft (although not being a
hybrid tea fan, the bar is set quite low.) I stuck an arbour around
them, planted some clematis and it's a showpiece. So you never know.

Cool !! I had a bagged Crimson Glory die back from the August heat,
and it started growing back from the roots in late fall. Now I'm
looking forward to seeing what develops.