Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:29:37 GMT P van Rijckevorsel wrote:

Actually archaeology is not required here. Acorn has been a staple food
through much of human history (ie in historic times). That is why the
name "acorn" contains the stem "corn" = "grain" as in wheat or rye. Only in
the last few centuries it has been demoted to an animal food.

Oaks have been significantly correlated with rising civilizations. A typical
picture is to start out with a site on a river surrounded by dense oak
forests. On such a site a city may arise, to become famous. Happened time
after time.

Countries well known for their luscious and dense oak forests include Greece
and Britain, both giving rise to well-known civilations. Of course when such
a City reaches its peak, the oaks will be much on the decline, getting used
up as fuel.

A typical example of a City-that-would-not-be if it were not for oaks and
acorns is London. Look at a map of London some time, and see all the street
names.


I go back much further than this. I go back to a time before agriculture was
discovered. Before agriculture it seems as though the humans or hominids
could have lived in a oak forest environment and that the oak acorns became the
first "bread" at the campfire and thus the first "crop". It is perhaps likely
that
the oak became the first agriculture staple crop in that a band of hominids
would make their "home" a grove of oak trees.

You are completely nuts, Archie.

So you are saying that the African veld is full of oak trees?

Look again you, dumb farkle.


Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message
...
Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:29:37 GMT P van Rijckevorsel wrote:

Actually archaeology is not required here. Acorn has been a staple food
through much of human history (ie in historic times). That is why the
name "acorn" contains the stem "corn" = "grain" as in wheat or rye. Only
in
the last few centuries it has been demoted to an animal food.

Oaks have been significantly correlated with rising civilizations. A
typical
picture is to start out with a site on a river surrounded by dense oak
forests. On such a site a city may arise, to become famous. Happened
time
after time.

Countries well known for their luscious and dense oak forests include
Greece
and Britain, both giving rise to well-known civilations. Of course when
such
a City reaches its peak, the oaks will be much on the decline, getting
used
up as fuel.

A typical example of a City-that-would-not-be if it were not for oaks
and
acorns is London. Look at a map of London some time, and see all the
street
names.


I go back much further than this. I go back to a time before agriculture
was
discovered. Before agriculture it seems as though the humans or hominids
could have lived in a oak forest environment and that the oak acorns
became the
first "bread" at the campfire and thus the first "crop". It is perhaps
likely
that
the oak became the first agriculture staple crop in that a band of
hominids
would make their "home" a grove of oak trees.

Cereoid+10 wrote:

You are completely nuts, Archie.

So you are saying that the African veld is full of oak trees?
10,000 years ago, the most innovative place was Anatolia. The
charcoals found in the hearths include oaks and acorn shells. But
that aint the half of it, or even 10%.

It looks like North Africa had the jump on it with herding 25kya,
but it also looks like maybe overgrazing started out the Sahara.
That, and the indigeneous hunting tribes drove all the herders out
of business except what we now know as the Masai.

But DNA says that all modern European breeds of cattle come from
Aurochs, and they were being herded on the high plain of Anatolia
10kya, along with some kind of caproid. Another region there ran
swine up into pistascio thickets, and the then great lake there was
full of wintering waterfowl.

Then too, there were mineral resources of an active volcanic area;
ash which proved to make a good plaster. A site in the western part
of this closed drainage basin was industrial scale obsidian flaking,
in different styles according to what would sell in different
directions of export. And critical in the era would have been the
salt flats, just like we see at Salt Lake in Utah, for preserving
the various meats. A lot of different resources within a couple
hundred km of the various resource production sites.

Day Brown writes

It looks like North Africa had the jump on it with herding 25kya,
but it also looks like maybe overgrazing started out the Sahara.
That, and the indigeneous hunting tribes drove all the herders out
of business except what we now know as the Masai.

The masai moved from the north in historic times, about 1500 IIRC.
The original population was hottentot or bushmen, both hunter gatherers.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Oz wrote:
The masai moved from the north in historic times, about 1500 IIRC.
The original population was hottentot or bushmen, both hunter gatherers.
I dunno how to define 'original'. But clearly herders left their
images on the stone walls in what is not the Sahara during the
Paleolithic. And all around the edge of the Sahara, tribes are
scattered around still in the cattle business. But what puzzles me,
is, as the Sarhara spread in all directions, why the Africans did
not take the business up into the Levant, all the way to Afganistan.
Unless there were other races there already doing the same thing.
Maybe even Neanerthal?