On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:34:52 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In article , Torsten Brinch
writes

I was following up your claimed national ability for *fixing things* and
asking for help.

You were not.

I may have avoided saying please but the request was genuine.

Your attitude fails the pattern of genuine request for help. On the
floe, you could have got yourself killed coming on like this.

I was following up your claimed national ability for *fixing things* and
asking for help.

You still were not.

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...

Your attitude fails the pattern of genuine request for help. On the
floe, you could have got yourself killed coming on like this.


What is the 'floe'?

M

On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:21 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
What is the 'floe'?

Adrift

the fallen sunshade the chirp parting
the flashwindcrackle soon glowing
afterimage those leaves momentary
shadows thrown around an invisible fire
always leaving always here

(poem by Helga Härle)

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...
we have smallholders and I don't think that there is any government
outreach to them. They can get drawn into the net of paperwork and
form
filling but will probably not get much in the way of support
payments.
=====================
There is not much paper work over here. If you go off the program it's
no
big deal. Progams only cover small grains, cotton beans, corn, feed
grains
peants and few more. Fruits, vetgables and such are not under any kind
of
price support. Some cattlmen have nothing to do with govement programs
except the disease programs.

every bovine animal has to have two ear tags, its passport, every
movement off one holding onto another has to be reported. Even Zoos have
to do this.


round here we have a lot of contractors, more small farmers, farmers
sons or similar who have a tractor, slurry tanker, round baler and
wrapper, etc. Some will do mowing, ploughing etc. There are outfits
who
can put a couple of silage teams into the field (self propelled
harvester, three tractors and trailers, a rake, two mowers and a
loading
shovel for the pit) but these are the minority.


Where you aren't big enough to capitalize your equipment contracting
or
partnerships can make it work. The thing is if things get tough people
cut
out contractors first.

in this area, machinery purchases went first and contractors hung on in.
After all, if you are staying in business, your slurry has to be spread,
your silage has to be made, and most farms now haven't the staff to put
together a silage team even if they had the machinery.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


Gordon

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...
I spent the the last part of my life making thing work as well and I
come to
an entirely different conclusion over here. With low interest rates
investments in irrigation systems are quite attractive from the
landlords
and the tenants point of view particularly when you factor in the
benefits
of no till cropping. It can increase my income by a factor of 2 or 3
including payments and decrease the farmers per unit costs about 40%.

I am not just talking either we are spending real money.

There seems a general move to quietly drift capital out of agriculture.
Most farmers are in their late 50s or older, annuities are rubbish at
the moment so pension plans do not look good. Even at low interest rates
money pays better on deposit than it does in agriculture. (remember our
rates are probably higher than yours, but not much)

--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:21 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
What is the 'floe'?

Adrift

the fallen sunshade the chirp parting
the flashwindcrackle soon glowing
afterimage those leaves momentary
shadows thrown around an invisible fire
always leaving always here

(poem by Helga Härle)


Thank you for that, I am however none the wiser

On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:21 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:
What is the 'floe'?


Scenes From An Ice Floe
by Magnes
Disclaimer: I own nothing. Even my name is a hand-me-down.
Rating: G
Parings: None
Summary: With nothing but time on their hands, Ray and Fraser have a
little talk...
Spoilers: Call of the Wild



"Hey, Fraser?"

"Yes, Ray?"

"Where the hell are we?"

"We're in Canada."

"Where in Canada?"

"The Northwest Territories."

"We're lost, in other words."

"Not precisely, Ray."

"Frase, trust me. If yer not in one of six places in the Northwest
Territories, yer LOST."

"Now that's just silly, Ray."

"It's true."

"There are more than six settlements here."

"Okay. Nine. I just upped the number of non-lost places by fifty
percent. But that doesn't matter, 'cause we're not near any of them
and therefore, WE ARE LOST."

"You have the most convoluted logic, Ray."

"Thanks."

"According to your logic, we've been lost nine out of the eleven weeks
we've been here."

"I'm glad ya agree."

"I'm not agreeing. I'm pointing out that this is the first occurrence
that we have not had absolute control over our direction."

"Speakin' of which, what IS our direction?"

"Due south."

"Not that there's any other way to go, I guess. How long 'til we hit
the Bahamas?"

"We're... not going to the Bahamas. Given our direction, the first
land mass we'll see will be...Canada."

"Frase, I do not want to be hearin' that. I want tropical island
paradise. Let's head for Hawaii, then."

"Even if we did somehow manage to reach the Pacific Ocean, I believe
our craft would melt prior to our reaching the Hawaiian Islands."

"Craft? Did I just hear ya glorify this chunk of ice with a title?"

"Well, it is buoyant and it is conveying us and the dogs-"

"And almost a polar bear."

"Yes, that debacle manifested at a most fortuitous interlude."

"And the translation from Mountie to cop is...?"

"We're lucky the ice broke when it did."

"I knew that. Why couldn't you just say that?"

"I didn't think of it."

"Not enough syllables per word, huh?"

"Well, I did consid-"

"Dief, go bite him. Right now, boy. Make like he's a donut."

"I don't believe Diefenbaker is going to listen to you, Ray."

"I've got as much chance as you. Go on, boy. Right in the leg. Hey! Do
not be licking me, Dief! Stop it! Ugh...frozen wolf drool. Oh, get
off!"

"I believe you asked for that, Ray."

"No, I asked him to bite you for usin' words nobody uses outside of
Jeopardy."

"I was merely using the applicable terminology for the situation as it
presented itself."

"See? There you go again, Mr. Buy-a-vowel!"

"Ray, I can't help my vocabulary. My grandparents were exceedingly
literate-"

"Like yer not? 'Fraser, where are we?' 'Why, we're in Canada, Ray.' No
kiddin', Magellan!"

"You mean literal, Ray. My grandparents were literate. You consider me
literal."

"See? It's genetic!"

"A good vocabulary is acquired, not inherited."

"So what was your dad?"

"A Mountie."

"Ahhh! See? See what I mean?"

"No."

"I'm gonna bite ya myself! Move, wolf!"

"Now, Ray! Control yourself. You'll tip our...craft."

"Ice cube."

"Ice floe."

"I'm never ordering another drink on the rocks as long as I live."

"Yes, you will."

"Seriously. I'm never going to defrost. That permafrost thing you guys
got goin' up here? I'm the poster child. 'How'd you spend your
vacation?' 'Oh, I was on a cruise to the Northwest Areas-"

"Territories."

"-with my butt frozen to my craft but the craft was smarter than me or
my literate Mountie pal because it was migrating south."

"Literal."

"What?"

"Literal Mountie pal."

"My literal Mountie pal that literally drove me off the deep end so
now I'm neurotic about ice meltin' in my Coke."

"Now that IS silly, Ray."

"And sittin' on a chunk of ice with a dozen dogs and a Mountie isn't?"

"Well, silly isn't the word I'd use to describe our present
situation."

"Okay, then. Lost."

"Challenging."

"Hopeless."

"Epic."

"Desperate."

"Exciting."

"Stupid."

"Adventurous."

"Okay, that I'll grant ya. Adventurous sounds good. Not as good as
downright crazy, of course, but it'll do."

"This isn't crazy."

"What is it, then?"

"Alright, it's crazy."

"Toldja."

"Perhaps we should christen our...ship."

"Titanic."

"Hmm...the Argo?"

"Lusitania."

"The Golden Hind."

"Thresher."

"Enterprise."

"Andrea Doria."

"Ray, your choices are singularly grim."

"Just applyin' the terminology reflective of my mood, Fraser."

"We're not going to sink."

"Right. Just turn into copsicles."

"Are you really that cold?"

"How can you be warm?"

"A different metabolism. Here. Wrap the sleeping bag around you.
Better?"

"Yeah."

"Diefenbaker, go on the other side of Ray. Don't give me that look,
you're the one in the fur coat. Move!"

"Sorry, Dief, stole yer seat."

"Oh, Ray, you are that cold! You should have told me sooner!"

"Yeah, well. Chicago suddenly seems pretty temperate compared to here.
Yer not freezing?"

"No."

"I must not have any blood pressure."

"Move closer. The wind's picking up."

"Is that good?"

"Actually, yes. We'll get out of here sooner."

"That's good."

"Ray, look! An aurora!"

"Ah! God, that's gorgeous. I'll never get tired of lookin' at them."

"Nor I."

"Hey, Frase?"

"Yes?"

"Sing for me, will ya?"

"Sing? What would you like to hear?"

"What do you think? How many partnerships come with their own theme
song?"

"Ah, just one more time, I want to sail the Northwest Passage,
To see the cold aurora burning in the north again,
With the stars as my guides,
And the wind for my companion,
I will seek the Hand of Franklin o'er the icy main."

"Where'd that come from?"

"I just made it up. It seemed fitting."

"Is there anything you don't do well?"

"What do you mean?"

"Now you're a poet on top of everything else."

"You're a poet, too, Ray."

"Naa. Words an' me...we don't get along."

"There's more to poetry than the written word. I've seen you dance. If
that isn't poetry, I don't know what is."

"Me?"

"It's riveting. Mesmerizing."

"In English, not Canadian."

"You're poetry in motion, Ray."

"...oh..."

"I'm sorry. Do I embarrass you? My apolo-"

"N-no! No, Frase. I'm not...I just...never...nobody ever...I mean, you
notice things about people they don't even see."

"No one has ever told you how graceful you are?"

"N-no."

"Well, you are. Extremely."

"Oh. Thanks."

"Ray?"

"Yeah?"

"Why do I get the feeling few people have ever complimented you?"

"Most people I've dealt with have been too busy pointin' out my flaws,
startin' with my parents and workin' on down."

"That's unfair."

"You're not like most people."

"Thank you. If they can't offer you a simple, honest compliment, I
don't want to be like them."

"Huh. Frase, I wouldn't trade you for anything in the world."

"Thank you kindly, Ray."

"I know I complain an' everything and I don't know nothin' 'bout this
place, but this is the most fun I've ever had...freezin' my ass off on
an ice burg-"

"Ice floe."

"Ice floe. I honestly can't think of any place I'd rather be right
now."

"I'm glad."

"Yeah, the Arctic is growin' on me, but I'm thinkin' it's more the
company than the locale."

"Ah."

"Dief's really come to mean a lot to me."

"Ray!"

"Ha! Made ya smile!"

"You're incorrigible!"

"And south of the border that means...?"

"You're...bad."

"Bad as in bad or bad as in good?"

"Yes."

"Thanks fer askin' me along. Y'know, I was thinkin' the other night,
what if I'd been stupid and said 'no' to comin' along with you on this
adventure gig? I'd be stuck in Chicago."

"With Chinese take-out."

"Bored."

"Indoor plumbing."

"Lonely."

"Sports channel."

"No good without yer best friend along to watch."

"Diefenbaker, I'm sure, appreciates your sentiments."

"Yeah, but at least you don't shed on the couch."

"I'm glad you're here, too. I don't know if I would have had the
fortitude to make it this far on my own."

"This far north?"

"No. This far period."

"Oh."

"Yes."

"I know I wouldn't have. You're the only person who ever actually took
the time to get to know me and still liked me anyway."

"I can almost say the same, but in all fairness I must include Ray
Vecchio in that category as well."

"Think he ever figured out what happened to the Riv?"

"We'll know if there's a letter bomb waiting for us in Resolute."

"S'long as he leaves the GTO outta this."

"He'll never notice."

"Frase, we blew up his baby, flambéed it, then dumped into the Lake
they call Michigan. Trust me, no matter how well we restored it, he's
gonna notice."

"Well...Ray Vecchio will just have to...deal with it."

"Did I just hear correctly?"

"I believe so."

"Can I quote ya?"

"Yes."

"Hey! Vecchio! Deal with it! Benton said so!"

"Ray, why are you yelling?"

"'Cause I can."

"Alright..."

"You humorin' me?"

"Yes."

"Oh. Okay. Ah! Hey, Frase! Lookit! Blue this time."

"Purple."

"Listen, pal, I may be blind, but I'm not color blind. That aurora is
blue."

"Spoken like a cop. Indigo."

"Blue."

"Fine. To keep the border undefended, it's blue."

"Thank you."

....

"Hey, Frase?"

"Yes, Ray?"

"I think I figured out where we are."

"Lost?"

"Naa. We're not lost."

"Where are we?"

"Right here."

"Hmm...I do believe you're correct. And it's purple."

"Fine. It's purple."

"Thank you."

"No...thank you, Ben."

Xref: 127.0.0.1 uk.business.agricultu95715 sci.agricultu59606

In article , Torsten Brinch
writes
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:21 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
What is the 'floe'?

Adrift

the fallen sunshade the chirp parting
the flashwindcrackle soon glowing
afterimage those leaves momentary
shadows thrown around an invisible fire
always leaving always here

(poem by Helga Härle)

Just as I thought, an oblique Scandinavian escape route. A better
translation might link the word with *flight* or past tense *flown* and
implied *catch me if you can*.

Nice poem though. Is this original or translation?

regards


--
Tim Lamb

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:14:13 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In article , Torsten Brinch
writes
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:21 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
What is the 'floe'?

Adrift

the fallen sunshade the chirp parting
the flashwindcrackle soon glowing
afterimage those leaves momentary
shadows thrown around an invisible fire
always leaving always here

(poem by Helga Härle)

Just as I thought, an oblique Scandinavian escape route. A better
translation might link the word with *flight* or past tense *flown* and
implied *catch me if you can*.

No translation is needed. It is Norwegian 'flo' meaning flat layer,
which has introgressed English to become 'floe', meaning sea ice. It
will be associated to other concepts, e.g. based on spelling likeness,
and the wider connotations of sea ice, and the mind state of the
associator.

There were two youngsters, who followed the tracks of a Nanuk. When
they caught up with it, they started buggering it, trying to molest
it. Of the youngsters, one got away, wounded. The other ended up
partly eaten, the rescue team found his sad remains on the floe. The
bear was subsequent tracked down and shot.

Nice poem though. Is this original or translation?

It is the authors translation from the original.

"Hamish Macbeth" wrote in message
...

Thank you for that, I am however none the wiser

That's exactly what I wanted to say, but I figured it was just me :-)

M

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...

has introgressed English to become 'floe', meaning sea ice.

I knew that! smacks self in head

M :-)

Michelle Fulton wrote in message
m...

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...

has introgressed English to become 'floe', meaning sea ice.

I knew that! smacks self in head

M :-)

Remember the adverts for Glacier Mints?


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:04:58 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .

has introgressed English to become 'floe', meaning sea ice.

I knew that! smacks self in head

You may know it from the expression 'go with the floe'. It would be
understandable if an English tongued person associate this to flow,
like going with the flow of water, but that is not the original
meaning of the expression. Floe and flow are in the origin
completely different concepts, going with the floe means going with
the ice.

An English tongued person might yield to associations from floe
to flee/fly/fled/flight, particularly when he is in a belligerent
state of mind, but again, flee/fly is an altogether different concept
than floe.

The two concepts 'floe' and 'flaw', otoh, come from the same origin,
which probably few English would connect, in whatever mood. The
original concept of both is one of a flat piece, a 'flake', cracked
off something. This concept was carried over to human character, a
flake ~flaw in character, and later on to broken things generally.
'Flake' itself is of course of the same root as floe and flaw.

In article ,
says...
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:04:58 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .

has introgressed English to become 'floe', meaning sea ice.

I knew that! smacks self in head

concepts, going with the floe means going with
the ice.

An English tongued person might yield to associations from floe
to flee/fly/fled/flight, particularly when he is in a belligerent
state of mind, but again, flee/fly is an altogether different concept
than floe.


Any connection to the rhyme:
Flee Fly Floe Flumb I smell the blood of a Danish man?
vbg

--
David
Visit http://www.farm-direct.co.uk for your local farmgate food supplies.
FAQ's, Glossary, Farming Year and more!

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:41:57 -0000, David P
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:04:58 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .

has introgressed English to become 'floe', meaning sea ice.

I knew that! smacks self in head

concepts, going with the floe means going with
the ice.

An English tongued person might yield to associations from floe
to flee/fly/fled/flight, particularly when he is in a belligerent
state of mind, but again, flee/fly is an altogether different concept
than floe.


Any connection to the rhyme:
Flee Fly Floe Flumb I smell the blood of a Danish man?
vbg

Self evidently now, you just made it:-) The direct template of
this new expression would of course be King Lear, but it is difficult
to say this template really had an origin, since the language use is
so obviously highly apophonical there. The 'falling' vocal shifting
'ee-eye-oh-u(m)' may serve to associate to finalisation or
conclusion, though, in our language as well as in Shakespeares. So,
although it is equally an apophony to say 'bim bam bum', as it is to
say 'bum bam bim', hearing the two things would tune minds
differently.