Lotus wrote in message
...
Diagnosis and incidence of prion (CJD) disease: a tetrospective
archival survey with implications for future research
Neurodegeneration vol 4 1995;357-368.

CJ Bruton, RK Bruton, SM Gentleman, GW Roberts. Corsellis
Collection Brain Bank, Dept of neuropathy, Runwell Hosp, Wickford,
Essex. etc.

Reliable identification of CJD in the UX has become essential
following
the suggestion that prion disease in cattle might transmit
accidentally
to humans who eat contaminated beef. recent data suggest that some
cases f CJD may be conically unrecognized; in order to examine this
proposal we reviewed all cases of dementia (n-1000+) collected between
1964 and 1990. We identified 19 cases of CJD of which only 11 were
diagnosed before death. These 11 had a characteristic clinical history
of CJD. Their brains showed little or no external abnormality. In
contrast
only 2 of the 8 clinically unrecognized cases had characteristic
symptoms.
The remaining six presented atypically; their illness lasted 3 years
or more,
motor signs were much less evidnt and simple dementia was the most
promminent feature. the brains showed moderate or severe cereral
atrophy.
Our data indicate that only about 60% of prion disease cases with
pathologically typical SE were identified clinically during life. This
suggests that human prion disease may bemore common than previously
supposed and that a further review of the epidemiology is required.
http://sparc.airtime.co.uk/bse/scij.htm

11 of a thousand - 1.1% of all cases _were_ clinically diagnosed.
{That's a huge number, considering 'sporadic' CJD is considered
to affect 1 person per *million*, isn't it!}

The sample from the SE is not representative of the entire UK
population, we know that Scotland and the borders have low
incidence of BSE, so we'll consider just those of the English
population suffering from dementia, in order to get a rough
indication of the number of CJD deaths a year, were 1.1% of
cases clinically diagnosed as CJD, as stated in the (pre-1990!)
S-E study.

There are currently over 750,000 people in the UK with dementia.
Regionally, this figure can be broken down: England 634,000
http://www.cf.ac.uk/news/02-03/020913.html

CJD kills within months.

634,000 x 1.1% = 6,974 CJD (clinically diagnosed) deaths per year.

But here are the official figures;

Deaths.... sporadic....1990-2002 ..... 598
http://www.doh.gov.uk/cjd/stats/dec02.htm

Something _seriously_ doesn't add up here.

Are the real number of CJD deaths being hidden from us?

no, because the number dying from dementia is pretty well known. If more
of them are dying from CJD you have to explain why other forms of
dementia are falling


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

Lotus wrote in message
...
Diagnosis and incidence of prion (CJD) disease: a tetrospective
archival survey with implications for future research
Neurodegeneration vol 4 1995;357-368.

CJ Bruton, RK Bruton, SM Gentleman, GW Roberts. Corsellis
Collection Brain Bank, Dept of neuropathy, Runwell Hosp, Wickford,
Essex. etc.

Reliable identification of CJD in the UK has become essential following
the suggestion that prion disease in cattle might transmit accidentally
to humans who eat contaminated beef. Recent data suggest that some
cases sCJD may be conically unrecognized; in order to examine this
proposal we reviewed all cases of dementia (n-1000+) collected between
1964 and 1990. We identified 19 cases of CJD of which only 11 were
diagnosed before death. These 11 had a characteristic clinical history
of CJD. Their brains showed little or no external abnormality. In contrast
only 2 of the 8 clinically unrecognized cases had characteristic symptoms.
The remaining six presented atypically; their illness lasted 3 years or more,
motor signs were much less evident and simple dementia was the most
prominent feature. the brains showed moderate or severe cerebral atrophy.
Our data indicate that only about 60% of prion disease cases with
pathologically typical SE were identified clinically during life. This
suggests that human prion disease may bemore common than previously
supposed and that a further review of the epidemiology is required.
http://sparc.airtime.co.uk/bse/scij.htm

11 of a thousand - 1.1% of all cases _were_ clinically diagnosed.
{That's a huge number, considering 'sporadic' CJD is considered
to affect 1 person per *million*, isn't it!}

The sample from the SE is not representative of the entire UK
population, we know that Scotland and the borders have low
incidence of BSE, so we'll consider just those of the English
population suffering from dementia, in order to get a rough
indication of the number of CJD deaths a year, were 1.1% of
cases clinically diagnosed as CJD, as stated in the (pre-1990!)
S-E study.

There are currently over 750,000 people in the UK with dementia.
Regionally, this figure can be broken down: England 634,000
http://www.cf.ac.uk/news/02-03/020913.html

CJD kills within months.

634,000 x 1.1% = 6,974 CJD (clinically diagnosed) deaths per year.

But here are the official figures;

Deaths.... sporadic....1990-2002 ..... 598
http://www.doh.gov.uk/cjd/stats/dec02.htm

Something _seriously_ doesn't add up here.

Are the real number of CJD deaths being hidden from us?

no, because the number dying from dementia is pretty well known. If more
of them are dying from CJD you have to explain why other forms of
dementia are falling

It's been diagnosed for years. Can't you read?



--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

Lotus wrote in message
...

Are the real number of CJD deaths being hidden from us?

no, because the number dying from dementia is pretty well known. If
more
of them are dying from CJD you have to explain why other forms of
dementia are falling

It's been diagnosed for years. Can't you read?


yes, but you've still not explained where the extra deaths from dementia
are.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

Lotus wrote in message
...

Are the real number of CJD deaths being hidden from us?

no, because the number dying from dementia is pretty well known. If more
of them are dying from CJD you have to explain why other forms of
dementia are falling

It's been diagnosed for years. Can't you read?


yes, but you've still not explained where the extra deaths from dementia
are.

They've increased over time, obviously.

You've still not explained the 11 CJD cases per 1,000.

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Lotus wrote in message
...

Are the real number of CJD deaths being hidden from us?

no, because the number dying from dementia is pretty well known.
If more
of them are dying from CJD you have to explain why other forms
of
dementia are falling

It's been diagnosed for years. Can't you read?


yes, but you've still not explained where the extra deaths from
dementia
are.

They've increased over time, obviously.

You've still not explained the 11 CJD cases per 1,000.

no need to, if the overal total of dementia cases hasn't increased,
there isn't a problem, all that is happening is that according to me,
they might be dying from a different type of dementia, or from your
point of view, it is actually the same type of dementia.
How do UK dementia figures compare with US, or EU.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Jim Webster" wrote in message

How do UK dementia figures compare with US

Oh, we're all demented over here. No comparison needed ;-)

M

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

Lotus wrote in message
...
[..]

You've still not explained the 11 CJD cases per 1,000.

no need to, if the overal total of dementia cases hasn't increased,
there isn't a problem, all that is happening is that according to me,
they might be dying from a different type of dementia, or from your
point of view, it is actually the same type of dementia.

It's CJD, which we are told occurs in one person per million.

How do UK dementia figures compare with US, or EU.

'.. The true prevalence of prion diseases in this or any other country remains
a mystery (Harrison,1991). Compounding the uncertainty, autopsies are rarely
performed on atypical dementias (Harrison,1991), because medical professionals
fear infection (Altman, 1996a). The officially reported rate in this country is less
than 1 case in a million people per year (World, 1996). An informal survey of
neuropathologists, however, registered a theoretical range of 2-12% of all
dementias as actually CJD (Harrison, 1991). And hundreds of thousands of
Americans suffer from severe dementias every year (Brayne, 1994; United, 1995).
Two other studies average about a 3% CJD rate among dementia patients
(Mahendra, 1987; Wade, 1987). A preliminary 1989 University of Pennsylvania
study showed that 5% of patients diagnosed with dementia were actually dying
from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (Boller, 1989). It would seem CJD is seriously
underdiagnosed at present (Harrison, 1991).

The most common misdiagnosis of CJD is Alzheimer's disease (Harrison, 1991).
CJD was even described by our government's top CJD researcher (Wlazelek, 1990a)
as "Alzheimer's in fast forward (Wlazelek, 1990b)." The symptoms and pathology of
both diseases overlap (Brown, 1989). There can be spongy changes in Alzheimer's,
for example, and senile plaques in CJD (Brown, 1989). The causes may overlap as
well; epidemiological evidence suggests that people eating meat more than four times
a week for a prolonged period have a three times higher chance of suffering a dementia
than long-time vegetarians (Giem, 1993), although this result may be confounded by
vascular factors (Van Duijn, 1996).

Paul Brown, medical director for the U.S. Public Health Service (Gruzen, 1996),
said that the brains of the young people who died from the new CJD variant in Britain
even look like Alzheimer's brains (Hager, 1996). Stanley Prusinger, the scientist who
coined the term prion, speculates Alzheimer's may in fact turn out to be a prion disease
(Prusiner, 1984). In younger victims the disease could look like multiple sclerosis or a
severe viral infection, according to Alzheimer's expert Gareth Roberts (Brain, 1996).

An estimated two to three million Americans are afflicted by Alzheimer's (Scully,
1993); it is the fourth leading cause of death among the elderly in the U.S (Perry, 1995).
Twenty percent or more of people clinically diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease are
found at autopsy to not have had Alzheimer's at all (McKhann, 1984). At Yale, out of
46 patients clinically diagnosed with Alzheimer's, 6 were proven to be CJD at autopsy
(Manuelidis, 1989). In another post-mortem study 3 out of 12 "Alzheimer" patients
actually died from a spongiform encephalopathy (Teixeira, 1995).

Carleton Gajdusek, who was awarded a Nobel Prize for his work with prion diseases
(Manuelidis,1985), estimates that 1% of people showing up in Alzheimer clinics actually
have CJD (Folstein, 1983). That means that hundreds of people (Hoyert, 1996; United,
1995) may already be dying from mad cow disease each year in the United States. ..'

http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/Alzheimer_cjd.html

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...


Carleton Gajdusek, who was awarded a Nobel Prize for his work with
prion diseases
(Manuelidis,1985), estimates that 1% of people showing up in Alzheimer
clinics actually
have CJD (Folstein, 1983).

pity that this was before BSE blew up isn't it


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...


Carleton Gajdusek, who was awarded a Nobel Prize for his work with prion diseases
(Manuelidis,1985), estimates that 1% of people showing up in Alzheimer clinics actually
have CJD (Folstein, 1983).
http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/Alzheimer_cjd.html

pity that this was before BSE blew up isn't it

It's an American study of the US population, posted in response to
your question "How do UK dementia figures compare with US, or EU."

You have some rough figures, work it out with them , alternatively,
you're free to find a more accurate number of all dementia cases in
the US or EU by doing a little research yourself (imagine that).

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...


Carleton Gajdusek, who was awarded a Nobel Prize for his work
with prion diseases
(Manuelidis,1985), estimates that 1% of people showing up in
Alzheimer clinics actually
have CJD (Folstein, 1983).
http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/Alzheimer_cjd.html

pity that this was before BSE blew up isn't it

It's an American study of the US population, posted in response to
your question "How do UK dementia figures compare with US, or EU."

As I said, this is before BSE blew up. What the hell use are comparison
figures then? You are the one claiming a lot of hidden CJD so you should
have figures for dementia now.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...


Carleton Gajdusek, who was awarded a Nobel Prize for his work with prion diseases
(Manuelidis,1985), estimates that 1% of people showing up in Alzheimer clinics actually
have CJD (Folstein, 1983).
http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/Alzheimer_cjd.html

pity that this was before BSE blew up isn't it

It's an American study of the US population, posted in response to
your question "How do UK dementia figures compare with US, or EU."

As I said, this is before BSE blew up. What the hell use are comparison
figures then? You are the one claiming a lot of hidden CJD so you should
have figures for dementia now.

In the UK, 750,000.

You are the one that selectively quoted, from a range of data,
figures from or before the mid-eighties.
You snipped;
'An estimated two to three million Americans are afflicted by
Alzheimer's (Scully, 1993); it is the fourth leading cause of death
among the elderly in the U.S (Perry, 1995).'

You're free to find a more up-to-date number of all dementia cases
in the US or EU by doing a little research yourself (imagine that).

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...


Carleton Gajdusek, who was awarded a Nobel Prize for his
work with prion diseases
(Manuelidis,1985), estimates that 1% of people showing up in
Alzheimer clinics actually
have CJD (Folstein, 1983).
http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/Alzheimer_cjd.html

pity that this was before BSE blew up isn't it

It's an American study of the US population, posted in response to
your question "How do UK dementia figures compare with US, or EU."

As I said, this is before BSE blew up. What the hell use are
comparison
figures then? You are the one claiming a lot of hidden CJD so you
should
have figures for dementia now.

In the UK, 750,000.

over how long?
--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Lotus wrote in message
...
"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...


Carleton Gajdusek, who was awarded a Nobel Prize for his work with prion diseases
(Manuelidis,1985), estimates that 1% of people showing up in Alzheimer clinics actually
have CJD (Folstein, 1983).
http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/Alzheimer_cjd.html

pity that this was before BSE blew up isn't it

It's an American study of the US population, posted in response to
your question "How do UK dementia figures compare with US, or EU."

As I said, this is before BSE blew up. What the hell use are comparison
figures then? You are the one claiming a lot of hidden CJD so you should
have figures for dementia now.

In the UK, 750,000.

over how long?

Currently.

--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

Lotus wrote in message

You are the one claiming a lot of hidden CJD so
you should
have figures for dementia now.

In the UK, 750,000.

over how long?

Currently.


and the number has changed exactly how over the last twenty years?


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Jim Webster" wrote in message ...

Lotus wrote in message

You are the one claiming a lot of hidden CJD so you should
have figures for dementia now.

In the UK, 750,000.

over how long?

Currently.


and the number has changed exactly how over the last twenty years?

Why are you asking me? Find out yourself, post the findings,
and state your case, if you have one.


--

Jim Webster, the pastor of stupidity, is unwholesome to mankind.