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#31
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GMO biz vs consumers
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:29:29 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA. We spend less of our disposable income on food than any nation in the world. That may be true or not, quite independently from the question whether or not you have the cheapest food. We don't live on Big Macs. That's true. However, if you look at prices in USA of, say, bread and cereals, or meat, they too are not the cheapest on the planet. The only way to evaluate cost is what a hour of my time will buy. The way countries juggle their currencies there is no other way to compare them. Gordon |
#32
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GMO biz vs consumers
"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
... "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:29:29 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA. We spend less of our disposable income on food than any nation in the world. That may be true or not, quite independently from the question whether or not you have the cheapest food. We don't live on Big Macs. That's true. However, if you look at prices in USA of, say, bread and cereals, or meat, they too are not the cheapest on the planet. The only way to evaluate cost is what a hour of my time will buy. The way countries juggle their currencies there is no other way to compare them. Gordon I enjoyed that answer and can certainly appreciate the cause for it. While negotiating with a Canadian company to assume funding which was initially in US funds to me for greenhouse production improvements. I was to be compensated a percentage of the transaction. As this constituted a sizeable amount of money there were several pointed (and legally related) questions due to the exchange rate and the significant advantage the Canadians obtained by accepting my offer. Did I get paid in Canadian funds or US funds and on what amount was the percentage actually to be figured. I was paid the percentage on Canadian numbers and in US dollars and we were all happy. It did take some creative paper work to satisfy the Two governments. This was a hefty 6 figure amount and I reinvested the total lot in another Canadian University project which is directed to improving food quality and availability for the disadvantaged. How did I determine what I wanted in dollars? I used modest but realistic "value of my hourly time" for a period of two years to compensate for the research and expenses. James Curts |
#33
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 11:35:18 +1200, Evil *******
posted: On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 14:09:25 +0200, Torsten Brinch wrote: On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA. Price of Big Mac in US$, as at April 24 2003 ------------------------------------------- snip Whoa - pull up for a minute there sunshine. Who said a Mig MAc qualifies as 'food'? It is certainly a reasonable meal in Australia. I could imagine the Big Mac of 2012 - prepared entirely from laboratory-grown cultures. Is this important? Doesn't the nutritional quality count for anything? |
#34
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:00:53 +1200, "lily" posted:
"Evil *******" wrote in message news I could imagine the Big Mac of 2012 - prepared entirely from laboratory-grown cultures. Which could of course be produced "organically" like tofu. Tofu is neither organic (necessarily) or laboratory grown. |
#35
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 18:16:43 -0700, Walter Epp
posted: "Gordon Couger" wrote: When the FDA and USDA say that there are no differences worth labeling most of the people trust them as they trust them for assuring the safety of their milk, meat and drugs. Our government does not work like a lot of parliamentary governments that form a gang and railroad things though until they can no longer agree and break up and make a new gang. Every issue stands on its own. Since we have reguatutory agencies with a long history and proven expertise we trust them more than people in Europe seem to trust theirs. Only if we are ignorant of how they are operating. Michael Taylor worked for Monsanto, then went to work for the FDA where he wrote the rules for labels regarding Monsanto's genetically engineered product saying there's no difference, then he went back to work for Monsanto. And you have evidence of any fraud or other wrongdoing? When Richard Burroughs at the FDA held up approval due to scientifically inadequate research and challenged company studies that dropped sick cows from test trials and manipulated data in other ways to make health and safety problems disappear, he was fired. And where did you get this story from? |
#36
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:29:29 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
posted: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA. We spend less of our disposable income on food than any nation in the world. Big disposable income? |
#37
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:46:36 +0200, Torsten Brinch
posted: On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:29:29 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA. We spend less of our disposable income on food than any nation in the world. That may be true or not, quite independently from the question whether or not you have the cheapest food. We don't live on Big Macs. That's true. However, if you look at prices in USA of, say, bread and cereals, or meat, they too are not the cheapest on the planet. But in what currency? US dollars is hardly informative. |
#38
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 01:28:36 -0700, Walter Epp
posted: "Moosh:]" wrote: On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:03:33 -0700, Walter Epp posted: "Gordon Couger" wrote: In the greenest part of the country a vote on and anti GM law lost 3 to 1. We have some That result was bought with over $6 per vote of out of state money spent on a blitz of deception and scare tactics. For instance? Show too where it is wrong please. http://www.voteyeson27.com/Counterpoints1.pdf This does not mention the possibility that labeling could increase jobs, reduce costs of selling overseas, and make Oregon more competitive. As Consumers Union points out in its letter supporting labeling, "Europe, Japan, South Korea, China, Australia and New Zealand all have mandatory labeling requirements, and a labeling law in Oregon would put the state in a good position to sell products in those markets." My query referred to the last part, "a blitz of deception and scare tactics" The best genetically modified democracy money can buy. That's nearly as good as "Frankenfoods". That law was not anti-gm, it only required that the consumer be allowed to know what they're getting so there could be a free market. Garbage. So that your lying scare campaigns could take effect. Freedom is by definition the ability to make choices. Only if you know and understand the facts. Without labelling the consumer is denied knowing the facts. Rubbish, you lot have bent any facts. Any label will only say "May contain GM". What information does this convey? You lot have gone out of your way to spread lies. Show me which statement I have made that's a lie and why. That there is any harm from GM foods. Otherwise, show us just ONE example. If there's no labeling, there's no choice, if there's no choice, there's no freedom. To call this a free market is a fraud - it's a rigged market. Then tell the truth. If there are scary lies promulgated, there can be no informed choice, whatever information is given on a label. And when biotech companies are censoring troubling information there can be no informed choice. Which troubling information? Their opposition to labelling shows that genetic engineering proponents don't believe their own propaganda. Their opposition to labelling is due to gross ignorance of the general public Lack of labelling keeps the public in the dark. No, after all the lies about scary consequences, nothing but darkness confronts the public. Education and the facts are the only way to shed light. Telling lies about all the harm that will ensue, and then screaming that any trace of GM must be labelled is a tad hypocritical. |
#39
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GMO biz vs consumers
"Moosh:}" wrote in message ... When Richard Burroughs at the FDA held up approval due to scientifically inadequate research and challenged company studies that dropped sick cows from test trials and manipulated data in other ways to make health and safety problems disappear, he was fired. And where did you get this story from? put Richard Burroughs and fda into google and you discover millions of websites which all seem to pass the same story among themselves. The guy has apparently been canonised and god alone knows what the truth really is Jim Webster |
#40
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 21:11:23 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
posted: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:29:29 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA. We spend less of our disposable income on food than any nation in the world. That may be true or not, quite independently from the question whether or not you have the cheapest food. We don't live on Big Macs. That's true. However, if you look at prices in USA of, say, bread and cereals, or meat, they too are not the cheapest on the planet. The only way to evaluate cost is what a hour of my time will buy. The way countries juggle their currencies there is no other way to compare them. My question, but Torsten has apparently avoided it so far. |
#41
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 21:11:23 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:29:29 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA. We spend less of our disposable income on food than any nation in the world. That may be true or not, quite independently from the question whether or not you have the cheapest food. We don't live on Big Macs. That's true. However, if you look at prices in USA of, say, bread and cereals, or meat, they too are not the cheapest on the planet. The only way to evaluate cost is what a hour of my time will buy. I think you have got the two concepts 'price' and 'affordability' mixed up. |
#42
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:20:24 GMT, "Moosh:}"
wrote: On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:46:36 +0200, Torsten Brinch posted: On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:29:29 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA. We spend less of our disposable income on food than any nation in the world. That may be true or not, quite independently from the question whether or not you have the cheapest food. We don't live on Big Macs. That's true. However, if you look at prices in USA of, say, bread and cereals, or meat, they too are not the cheapest on the planet. But in what currency? US dollars is hardly informative. I was thinking of World Bank data for international price comparisons. They do it in PPP terms, with 100 indicating [item] in [country in question] is priced equal to the price in USA, and less than 100, that it is cheaper. See: http://rrojasdatabank.net/wdi2000/tab5_6.pdf See also: The size of household consumption (in "international" dollars calculated from PPPs). in [country] and how much of it is going to e.g. food, transportation, education. http://rrojasdatabank.net/wdi2000/tab4_11.pdf |
#43
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:30:07 +0100, "Jim Webster"
posted: "Moosh:}" wrote in message .. . When Richard Burroughs at the FDA held up approval due to scientifically inadequate research and challenged company studies that dropped sick cows from test trials and manipulated data in other ways to make health and safety problems disappear, he was fired. And where did you get this story from? put Richard Burroughs and fda into google and you discover millions of websites which all seem to pass the same story among themselves. The guy has apparently been canonised and god alone knows what the truth really is It was really a rhetorical question, Jim, but you confirmed my suspicions |
#44
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 18:19:02 +0200, Torsten Brinch
posted: I think you have got the two concepts 'price' and 'affordability' mixed up. Affordability is the only true price, IMHO. |
#45
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GMO biz vs consumers
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 18:53:38 +0200, Torsten Brinch
posted: On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:20:24 GMT, "Moosh:}" wrote: On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:46:36 +0200, Torsten Brinch posted: On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:29:29 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message m... On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger" wrote: We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA. We spend less of our disposable income on food than any nation in the world. That may be true or not, quite independently from the question whether or not you have the cheapest food. We don't live on Big Macs. That's true. However, if you look at prices in USA of, say, bread and cereals, or meat, they too are not the cheapest on the planet. But in what currency? US dollars is hardly informative. I was thinking of World Bank data for international price comparisons. They do it in PPP terms, with 100 indicating [item] in [country in question] is priced equal to the price in USA, and less than 100, that it is cheaper. See: http://rrojasdatabank.net/wdi2000/tab5_6.pdf See also: The size of household consumption (in "international" dollars calculated from PPPs). in [country] and how much of it is going to e.g. food, transportation, education. http://rrojasdatabank.net/wdi2000/tab4_11.pdf But the best comparison is minutes of work done by average workers to be able to afford the product of interest. Affordability is what we want to compare, when you think of it. $2 is "infinitely expensive" if you only have $1. |
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