"Gordon Couger" wrote:
I understand that the US public were reasonably accepting of the
technology until, the European "Frankenfoods" scare campaign came to
town.

The US public is still accepting them with no real problem.

The US public is largely unaware that they are consuming them.
That's not acceptance, it's ignorance.

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on and anti GM law lost 3 to 1. We have some

That result was bought with over $6 per vote of out of state money
spent on a blitz of deception and scare tactics.
The best genetically modified democracy money can buy.

That law was not anti-gm, it only required that the consumer be allowed
to know what they're getting so there could be a free market.
Freedom is by definition the ability to make choices.
If there's no labeling, there's no choice, if there's no choice, there's
no freedom. To call this a free market is a fraud - it's a rigged market.

Their opposition to labelling shows that genetic engineering proponents
don't believe their own propaganda. If GE was really a good thing, the
industry would be proud to have their products labelled.

problem with green terrorists but we have been having that for a long time

Attempting to plant an association between advocates of consumer rights
and "terrorists" is a transparent smear.

--
delete N0SPAAM to reply by email

"Walter Epp" wrote in message
...
"Gordon Couger" wrote:
I understand that the US public were reasonably accepting of the
technology until, the European "Frankenfoods" scare campaign came to
town.

The US public is still accepting them with no real problem.

The US public is largely unaware that they are consuming them.
That's not acceptance, it's ignorance.

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on and anti GM law lost 3 to 1. We have some

That result was bought with over $6 per vote of out of state money
spent on a blitz of deception and scare tactics.
The best genetically modified democracy money can buy.

That law was not anti-gm, it only required that the consumer be allowed
to know what they're getting so there could be a free market.
Freedom is by definition the ability to make choices.
If there's no labeling, there's no choice, if there's no choice, there's
no freedom. To call this a free market is a fraud - it's a rigged market.

Their opposition to labelling shows that genetic engineering proponents
don't believe their own propaganda. If GE was really a good thing, the
industry would be proud to have their products labelled.

problem with green terrorists but we have been having that for a long
time

Attempting to plant an association between advocates of consumer rights
and "terrorists" is a transparent smear.

People that burn buildings and destroy property are not advocates. They take
these threats very serious here when we have been getting death threats on
professors for 10 years from these advocates.

Gordon

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:03:33 -0700, Walter Epp wrote:

The US public is still accepting them with no real problem.

The US public is largely unaware that they are consuming them.
That's not acceptance, it's ignorance.

Well, the US consumers were the first to drink water out of packaged
bottles and toss them without refilling.

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on and anti GM law lost 3 to 1. We have some

That result was bought with over $6 per vote of out of state money
spent on a blitz of deception and scare tactics.
The best genetically modified democracy money can buy.

Who voted - the legislature, or the people?

problem with green terrorists but we have been having that for a long time

Attempting to plant an association between advocates of consumer rights
and "terrorists" is a transparent smear.

But it works, because it has the support of the media.
People are so busy chasing the next buck they can't give a shit about the
long term ramifications.

And I'm not sure which is the greater evil - the possibility of severe
biological mishap, or the fact that grown produce is rapidly being
imprisoned by intellectual property encumbrance, to the point where in a
few years non-encumbered seeds for basic staple foods will be totally
unavailable.

"Evil *******" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:03:33 -0700, Walter Epp wrote:

The US public is still accepting them with no real problem.

The US public is largely unaware that they are consuming them.
That's not acceptance, it's ignorance.

Well, the US consumers were the first to drink water out of packaged
bottles and toss them without refilling.

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on and anti GM law lost 3 to 1. We have some

That result was bought with over $6 per vote of out of state money
spent on a blitz of deception and scare tactics.
The best genetically modified democracy money can buy.

Who voted - the legislature, or the people?

The people.

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:40:01 +0000, Gordon Couger wrote:

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on [a law requiring GM labelling] lost
3 to 1.

Who voted - the legislature, or the people?

The people.

After reading "The Loved One" by James Joyce as a teen, I thought nothing
could shock me about Americans.

I'm at a complete loss to understand why supposedly sane people would vote
*against* knowing what their food is made of.

But then again, 'food' as we know it is not available in the USA.
For instance, you can't buy cheese there. 80% of people buy this orange
plastic stuff, that makes Kraft Processed Cheddar Slices seem like the
finest Kiwi or Aussie matured cheeses by comparison. This is typical of
the foods over there (lived in Boston and SF for some months, visited NY
and LA).

"Evil *******" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:40:01 +0000, Gordon Couger wrote:

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on [a law requiring GM labelling] lost
3 to 1.
Not quite 3 to 1 over 70% voted down a laws that would require GM lables.

Who voted - the legislature, or the people?

The people.

After reading "The Loved One" by James Joyce as a teen, I thought nothing
could shock me about Americans.

I'm at a complete loss to understand why supposedly sane people would vote
*against* knowing what their food is made of.

It's made of soybeans and corn they don't want to pay the cost it would take
to segregate GM crops. If they are concerned about that they can buy
organic.

But then again, 'food' as we know it is not available in the USA.
For instance, you can't buy cheese there. 80% of people buy this orange
plastic stuff, that makes Kraft Processed Cheddar Slices seem like the
finest Kiwi or Aussie matured cheeses by comparison. This is typical of
the foods over there (lived in Boston and SF for some months, visited NY
and LA).

I will agree with you about the cheese in the supermarket. But you can get
good cheese you have to order it or go to a specitly store if you are in a
city. We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet. Aged
cheese and beef are expensive and not avilble in every grocery store.

The US government has established scientific agencies starting in 1873 by
establishing the USGS followed by the USDA in 1894. We have a good deal more
respect for them than we do a bunch of sensational tabloid new stories.

The faked studies of Lynx, DDT and egg thinning in birds and the forest
fires from the lack of proper forest management are detracting from the
environmentalist credibility with the large majority of people in the US.
The antics of PETA, earth liberation front and others using terror tactics
are detrimental to their cause. Our press reports both sides.


When the FDA and USDA say that there are no differences worth labeling most
of the people trust them as they trust them for assuring the safety of their
milk, meat and drugs. Our government does not work like a lot of
parliamentary governments that form a gang and railroad things though until
they can no longer agree and break up and make a new gang. Every issue
stands on its own.

Since we have reguatutory agencies with a long history and proven expertise
we trust them more than people in Europe seem to trust theirs.

Farmers don't have the political clout that they have in some European
counties either.

Gordon

"Evil *******" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:40:01 +0000, Gordon Couger wrote:

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on [a law requiring GM labelling] lost
3 to 1.

Who voted - the legislature, or the people?

The people.

After reading "The Loved One" by James Joyce as a teen, I thought nothing
could shock me about Americans.

I'm at a complete loss to understand why supposedly sane people would vote
*against* knowing what their food is made of.

But then again, 'food' as we know it is not available in the USA.
For instance, you can't buy cheese there. 80% of people buy this orange
plastic stuff, that makes Kraft Processed Cheddar Slices seem like the
finest Kiwi or Aussie matured cheeses by comparison. This is typical of
the foods over there (lived in Boston and SF for some months, visited NY
and LA).


I find that remark rather amusing. What kind of cheese do you eat? Are
you aware of that terrible bad "Genetically Modified Chymosin" that's used
in the process of the majority of those wonderful worldly cheeses. This is
one of the things that bother me about some of these countries. They don't
accept G.M.O. products from U.S.A, Canada, etc. but find using the G.M.O.
Chymosin quite acceptable. Go figger!!!!!



Dean Ronn

"Evil *******" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:40:01 +0000, Gordon Couger wrote:

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on [a law requiring GM labelling] lost
3 to 1.

Who voted - the legislature, or the people?

The people.

After reading "The Loved One" by James Joyce as a teen, I thought nothing
could shock me about Americans.

I'm at a complete loss to understand why supposedly sane people would vote
*against* knowing what their food is made of.

simple, you don't end up knowing what you food is made of, you end up with
long incomprehensible labels and because the manufacturers are terrified of
being sued so everything contains the phrase "may contain nuts".

sue every manufacturer if they have any undeclared gm contamination and
everything will be labeled with 'may contain gm'. This tells you exactly
what?

Jim Webster

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 06:59:05 +0100, Jim Webster wrote:

sue every manufacturer if they have any undeclared gm contamination and
everything will be labeled with 'may contain gm'. This tells you exactly
what?

It tells me that I would rather sit on a rotating pineapple than ingest
such food.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:44:56 +1200, Evil *******
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 06:59:05 +0100, Jim Webster wrote:

sue every manufacturer if they have any undeclared gm contamination and
everything will be labeled with 'may contain gm'. This tells you exactly
what?

It tells me that I would rather sit on a rotating pineapple than ingest
such food.


That can be arranged. Please email to make an appointment. ;-)

"Brian Harmer" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:44:56 +1200, Evil *******
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 06:59:05 +0100, Jim Webster wrote:

sue every manufacturer if they have any undeclared gm contamination and
everything will be labeled with 'may contain gm'. This tells you
exactly
what?

It tells me that I would rather sit on a rotating pineapple than ingest
such food.


That can be arranged. Please email to make an appointment. ;-)

I will finish the pineapple. One of the cast iron and black power variety
with a 5 second fuse.

There is no way to serrate crops. Seed gets in the wrong bin, sacks get on
the wrong pallet, drills don't get completely cleaned out Combines get in
the wrong field, combines done get complete cleaned out, trucks got to the
wrong elevator, trucks don't get cleaned out. Grain get put in the wrong bin
and blended with the wrong grin for shipping.

These don't happen every once in a while they happen every day and that is
only getting it to the country elevator. At least every other year I would
have a neighbor's hired combiner or hay cutter get in one of my fields
moving around at night or one of mine would get in his. We settled up the
best we could and went on. There were fields on that farm I couldn't find
after dark.

Gordon

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:03:33 -0700, Walter Epp
posted:

"Gordon Couger" wrote:
I understand that the US public were reasonably accepting of the
technology until, the European "Frankenfoods" scare campaign came to
town.

The US public is still accepting them with no real problem.

The US public is largely unaware that they are consuming them.
That's not acceptance, it's ignorance.

Yep, most don't want them new-fangled gene thangs in their fodder

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on and anti GM law lost 3 to 1. We have some

That result was bought with over $6 per vote of out of state money
spent on a blitz of deception and scare tactics.

For instance? Show too where it is wrong please.

The best genetically modified democracy money can buy.

That's nearly as good as "Frankenfoods".

That law was not anti-gm, it only required that the consumer be allowed
to know what they're getting so there could be a free market.

Garbage. So that your lying scare campaigns could take effect.

Freedom is by definition the ability to make choices.

Only if you know and understand the facts. You lot have gone out of
your way to spread lies. Show one example of GM harm.

If there's no labeling, there's no choice, if there's no choice, there's
no freedom. To call this a free market is a fraud - it's a rigged market.

Then tell the truth. If there are scary lies promulgated, there can be
no informed choice, whatever information is given on a label.
How would you think a food label that says CONTAINS GENETIC MATERIAL
would sell after your lying nonsense?

Their opposition to labelling shows that genetic engineering proponents
don't believe their own propaganda.

Their opposition to labelling is due to gross ignorance of the general
public (free choice requires education) lack of necessity in things
like oils that contain no protein, and all the lies that the greenies
have spread without an iota of truth.

If GE was really a good thing, the
industry would be proud to have their products labelled.

Not after the lies the greenies have spread. It is often difficuly to
determine exactly what is in mixtures. Hence the common catch all:
"May contain traces of nuts".

problem with green terrorists but we have been having that for a long time

Attempting to plant an association between advocates of consumer rights
and "terrorists" is a transparent smear.

Well they both "terrorise" a group of people. One with lies and one
with vandalism.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 11:26:11 +1200, Evil *******
posted:

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:40:01 +0000, Gordon Couger wrote:

In the greenest
part of the country a vote on [a law requiring GM labelling] lost
3 to 1.

Who voted - the legislature, or the people?

The people.

After reading "The Loved One" by James Joyce as a teen, I thought nothing
could shock me about Americans.

I'm at a complete loss to understand why supposedly sane people would vote
*against* knowing what their food is made of.

Seems reasonable, in view of the fact that most of them haven't a clue
what the constituents mean.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:43:18 GMT, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:
We do pay a price for having the cheapest food on the planet.

Myth: USA has the cheapest food on the planet

Fact: In 50 out of 63 countries worldwide, you can buy
a Big Mac hamburger cheaper than in USA.

Price of Big Mac in US$, as at April 24 2003
-------------------------------------------
Uruguay 1.05
China 1.20
Belarus 1.21
Philippines 1.24
Ukraine 1.31
Russia 1.32
Malaysia 1.33
Sri Lanka 1.34
Egypt 1.35
Thailand 1.38
Macau 1.39
Argentina 1.43
Hong Kong 1.47
Brazil 1.48
Honduras 1.51
Poland 1.62
Georgia 1.65
Bulgaria 1.68
Macedonia 1.70
Pakistan 1.71
Yugoslavia 1.77
Indonesia 1.84
South Africa 1.84
Australia 1.85
Singapore 1.86
Chile 1.95
Czech Rep 1.95
Jamaica 1.99
Taiwan 2.01
Guatemala 2.03
Lithuania 2.06
Estonia 2.07
Colombia 2.13
Croatia 2.17
Kuwait 2.17
Hungary 2.18
Mexico 2.18
Japan 2.19
New Zealand 2.21
Canada 2.21
Bahrain 2.25
Slovakia 2.26
Peru 2.29
Aruba 2.29
Venezuela 2.32
Turkey 2.34
Oman 2.34
Morocco 2.34
Saudia Arabia 2.40
UAE 2.45
Qatar 2.47
Dominican Republic 2.61
South Korea 2.71
USA 2.71
Lebanon 2.85
Costa Rica 2.89
Britain 3.14
Surinam 3.18
Sweden 3.60
Denmark 4.10
Switzerland 4.59
Norway 5.51
Iceland 5.79

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:44:56 +1200, Evil *******
posted:

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 06:59:05 +0100, Jim Webster wrote:

sue every manufacturer if they have any undeclared gm contamination and
everything will be labeled with 'may contain gm'. This tells you exactly
what?

It tells me that I would rather sit on a rotating pineapple than ingest
such food.


Sounds like a good plan to me.