I have a relatively young red oak - trunk about 4" diameter. But, I am not
sure if it is a Shumard Red or a Texas red (bucklei?). It does not seem to
be growing very fast at all - not that I expect it to. But I've had it
almost 4 years and it barely seems to have grown at all. Other than this,
the foliage and everything else seem very healthy.

I am wondering if it is perhaps in a constrained bed - too much rock - that
might be slowing it down. But, if it is a Shumard, then the soil could be
wrong. I'm pretty sure the tag said Texas Red Oak, wish I kept it.

Any thoughts on growing red oaks?

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 02:53:02 GMT, "Carlos"
wrote:

I have a relatively young red oak - trunk about 4" diameter. But, I am not
sure if it is a Shumard Red or a Texas red (bucklei?).

One difference between Shumard's and Texas Oaks are the depth of the
sinuses between the lobes. Shumard's Oak has shallower sinuses from
one-half to two-thirds as deep as the lobes whereas in Texas Oak the
depth is much greater - usually three-forth's or more deeper than the
lobes. Texas Oaks tend to be multi-trunked and the acorn cups differ.

There are lots of differences but these two species intergrade
genetically in the Austin area, so you will find hybrids of the two.
Shumard's will tend to occur in bottomlands on heavier clay soils east
of Austin and Texas Oaks on uplands west of Austin and in the middle
are plants that are mixtures of the two species.

Depending on your own yard, you can choose between the two. There are
some nice Shumard's Oaks along Shoal Creek in the western part of the
city but they are on clay bottomland soils. I think UT campus has
some also along Waller Creek. But if you go to the hills at Wild
Basin you will find only Texas Oaks.

When you are looking at a "Texas Red Oak" at a nursery about the only
thing to go on is the leaf sinus depth - and if the trees have been
growing in the shade this can be misleading. So you are stuck with
buying from a plant nursery that actually knows the difference between
the two species.

You can look at sinus depth on your tree by finding mature leaves on
the upper and outer part of the tree canopy exposed to full sun.
Compare those to similarly exposed leaves on a Texas Oak out at Wild
Basin or similar location. You should be able to determine whether
you have a "pure" Texas Oak, "pure" Shumard's Oak or something in
between. The more "Shumard's" your tree is, the more water, plant
food, and tender care you will need to provide it if you are growing
it on thin, rocky soils.

Rusty Mase
Austin, Texas

Well, mine always has little ones spouting from the base of the trunk. I'll
try to look at the leaves as they mature. Only way is to compare huh? Not
sure what you mean by the sinuses and lobes though! ha
My soil is clay on top of rock on a slope in full sun, actually in SA.
I've been helping the soil the past few months with Medina Plus.




"Rusty Mase" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 02:53:02 GMT, "Carlos"
wrote:

I have a relatively young red oak - trunk about 4" diameter. But, I am not
sure if it is a Shumard Red or a Texas red (bucklei?).

One difference between Shumard's and Texas Oaks are the depth of the
sinuses between the lobes. Shumard's Oak has shallower sinuses from
one-half to two-thirds as deep as the lobes whereas in Texas Oak the
depth is much greater - usually three-forth's or more deeper than the
lobes. Texas Oaks tend to be multi-trunked and the acorn cups differ.

There are lots of differences but these two species intergrade
genetically in the Austin area, so you will find hybrids of the two.
Shumard's will tend to occur in bottomlands on heavier clay soils east
of Austin and Texas Oaks on uplands west of Austin and in the middle
are plants that are mixtures of the two species.

Depending on your own yard, you can choose between the two. There are
some nice Shumard's Oaks along Shoal Creek in the western part of the
city but they are on clay bottomland soils. I think UT campus has
some also along Waller Creek. But if you go to the hills at Wild
Basin you will find only Texas Oaks.

When you are looking at a "Texas Red Oak" at a nursery about the only
thing to go on is the leaf sinus depth - and if the trees have been
growing in the shade this can be misleading. So you are stuck with
buying from a plant nursery that actually knows the difference between
the two species.

You can look at sinus depth on your tree by finding mature leaves on
the upper and outer part of the tree canopy exposed to full sun.
Compare those to similarly exposed leaves on a Texas Oak out at Wild
Basin or similar location. You should be able to determine whether
you have a "pure" Texas Oak, "pure" Shumard's Oak or something in
between. The more "Shumard's" your tree is, the more water, plant
food, and tender care you will need to provide it if you are growing
it on thin, rocky soils.

Rusty Mase
Austin, Texas

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 03:39:23 GMT, "Carlos"
wrote:

Well, mine always has little ones spouting from the base of the trunk. I'll
try to look at the leaves as they mature. Only way is to compare huh? Not
sure what you mean by the sinuses and lobes though!

Here is a picture.
http://www.paisano.com/image/TexasOak.JPG

On this one, a Texas Oak for sure, the leaf is about 90 mm wide
overall and the width of leaf at the base of a sinus is about 20 mm,
or half of that for one side of the leaf gives a ratio of 45 mm to 10
mm - so less than one-forth. The depth of the sinus then is greater
than three-forth's. I may not be measuring that in the right place
but you can see the principle

On a Shumard's Oak the width of the leaf at the base of a sinus would
be much wider so the ratio would be more like one-third or even
one-half.

My soil is clay on top of rock on a slope in full sun, actually in SA.
I've been helping the soil the past few months with Medina Plus.

Anything growing on top of a rock needs good care. As long as you are
there taking care of it, the tree should do well. One way you can
tell is if the density of the green color starts decreasing near the
edge of veins. The picture above is a healthy tree with good color
near the veins. If you start to loose that the tree is running low on
nutrients and you need to start working again on the soil. I have a
Post Oak growing on marly lime soil and it is frequently low on
nutrients but it has survived OK.

Rusty Mase
Austin, Texas