On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 03:18:51 GMT, "g" wrote:
And, speaking of names, come to think of it, three of the favorite
fish in Louisiana a white perch, sacolet (sack'-oh-lay) and
crappie (crop'-ee). They're all the same fish, actually!

Well, while you are running around in Cajun Country, see if you can
find some gardener making a fermented pepper hot sauce. My Dad was
half Cajun and he used to mention jars of pepper sauce that people
kept around to dip some out of for cooking. He just canned his
peppers and never made a sauce from them.

There are several sources of these recipes on the internet and I am
going to experiment with at least one recipe this summer. I have a
stand of peppers I think are "Macho" peppers from Southern Mexico that
are close to pequin peppers. If I screen these to keep out the
Mockingbirds I can harvest several pounds of these small peppers. The
recipe may be just mashing the peppers and adding natural vinegar and
salt.

Rusty Mase
Austin, Texas

Rusty,

Hey, right on ! Never thought about home made hot sauce,
but now that you mention it the commercial hot sauce makers
DO ferment the peppers.

Here goes one man's taste again (as with best tasting tomatoes
being for my taste the more acidic the better); but my favorite
commercial Louisiana red hot sauce is always the cheapest
brand on the shelf. And this has nothing to do with price. It
has to do with the fact that the cheaper ones TASTE better.
The difference, I suspect, is that the more expensive brands
(no criticism if that is what others prefer) are distilled or
something. Whatever it is, all that is left is the HOT, and not
much of the FLAVOR; so I go for the cheaper brands
every time. And that doesn't save money, actually, because
where I would use six drops of Tabasco on a plate of Cajun
red beans and rice, I'll use at least a teaspoon of Evangeline
brand or Red Devil brand and enjoy the flavor without being
miserable.

Everybody knows at least one dude who brags about how he
likes his peppers the hotter the better. Often that's the same
guy who wears no jacket on a freezing day and tells you
he's not cold, while his arms get like chicken skin and turn
blue.

Some peppers that look almost exactly like cayenne's are not
hot at all. If planted close to their look-alike cayenne cousins,
however, bees will play a joke on you -- cross pollinating
them. Never say a mild pepper on a cayenne bush, but now
and then a hot pepper will turn up on a mild pepper bush.

Anyhow, you're in luck. David is kin to every Cajun (Acadian,
for those who don't know it) ever born, if not by blood, then
by marriage somewhere out among the cousins and all. Show
him a Verett, a Langlois, a Landrieu, a Thibodaux, a Boudreau,
Lebeau or LeBlanc... stir... let talk for five minutes... and they're
likely to end up discovering a cousin or something in common.
David's wife is kin to prior Louisiana beauty queen Ali Landry,
(David and I want to believe), and has talked with Ali by email
a few times comparing details on some same name relative or
another. No direct hit, so far, but here's to persistence.)

David does at least half the cooking for his wife and kids, just
as I do for my wife and me, and he is always game for trying
a new recipe. One of David's specialties is fermenting grapes
and muscadines. The same equipment would work for a
batch of red hot sauce. Aerobic is best for vinegars and non-aerobic
for the other stuff. Also, we have a mutual friend who has a PhD
in biology and is a world class authority on vinology (grapes
wild and domesticated, grape taxonomy, climate preferences of
certain varieties, grape diseases, etc. from every continent)... in
addition to being a C---A--; so between the three of us we can
probably get word out among several hundred people on what
we're looking for, pretty quickly.

Some Cajun's will laugh at you if you ask for measurements,
though. When I make a pot of seafood gumbo, I never do it the
exact same way twice and -- if I didn't use a tasting dish I could
never get it right. (You use a small ladle, pour a taste in the dish
and taste out of the dish. Then you know by instinct, after a while,
just how much of something to add to fine tune it.)

I'll send David a message right now, and ask him to start the ball
rolling.

problem: Some of the best cooks don't measure
anything and laugh if you ask them to specify. When I cook
gumbo I could NEVER get it right without a tasting bowl. (No
I don't stick the spoon back in the pot after sipping from it.)

It's no trouble at all... so, if you don't hear back from me on it
in a few days, don't hesitate to remind, okay?


g



"Rusty Mase" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 03:18:51 GMT, "g" wrote:
And, speaking of names, come to think of it, three of the favorite
fish in Louisiana a white perch, sacolet (sack'-oh-lay) and
crappie (crop'-ee). They're all the same fish, actually!

Well, while you are running around in Cajun Country, see if you can
find some gardener making a fermented pepper hot sauce. My Dad was
half Cajun and he used to mention jars of pepper sauce that people
kept around to dip some out of for cooking. He just canned his
peppers and never made a sauce from them.

There are several sources of these recipes on the internet and I am
going to experiment with at least one recipe this summer. I have a
stand of peppers I think are "Macho" peppers from Southern Mexico that
are close to pequin peppers. If I screen these to keep out the
Mockingbirds I can harvest several pounds of these small peppers. The
recipe may be just mashing the peppers and adding natural vinegar and
salt.

Rusty Mase
Austin, Texas

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:32:07 GMT, "g" wrote:

............ One of David's specialties is fermenting grapes
and muscadines. The same equipment would work for a
batch of red hot sauce.

These were more of a small wooden container like a deep bowl with a
loose cover that you kept on the counter in the kitchen. Probably at
most a pint or two. I am thinking that this is just a salt
fermentation like you do with sauerkraut. We made sauerkraut in a
small 2.5 gallon crock where you only fermented a dozen heads of
cabbage at a time and then canned it for close to immediate use.

Rusty Mase
Austin, Texas

"Rusty Mase" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:32:07 GMT, "g" wrote:

............ One of David's specialties is fermenting grapes
and muscadines. The same equipment would work for a
batch of red hot sauce.

These were more of a small wooden container like a deep bowl with a
loose cover that you kept on the counter in the kitchen. Probably at
most a pint or two. I am thinking that this is just a salt
fermentation like you do with sauerkraut. We made sauerkraut in a
small 2.5 gallon crock where you only fermented a dozen heads of
cabbage at a time and then canned it for close to immediate use.

Rusty Mase
Austin, Texas

Rusty,

My grandmothers, and my mother, made many a batch of sour kraut from
cabbage raised in their family gardens. They used crock pots. The crock
pot was kept covered with a 'boiled' cup towel, to keep dust from getting
into it and a wooden lid (not air tight) was put on top of that.

I'm curious what kind of wooden box might be used. In the first half of
the 20th century lots of wooden boats were still in use. The water-swollen
wood would seal itself, and not leak. When out of the water, a boat would
develop cracks, where the boards shrunk away from each other. To avoid
that, people had to keep them submerged or keep water inside them. After
it was a few months old, a wooden boat would usually leak, regardless.
In those days it was common policy to take a bailing can along when going
out in one -- or in a large boat, such as a shrimp boat, a bilge pump was
required to keep the water pumped out.

Unless it's just a nostalgia thing, I would opt for a crock pot.

The customary thing for hobbyist wine making nowadays is lowboys (the
kind of five-gallon jug normally seen turned upside down in old-fashioned
water coolers. Glass is best. A rubber cork with a hole through it is
tightly inserted into the small hole at the top, after the fruit (or fruit
and
sugar) are put into the topped (usually boiled first) and some antiseptic
solution (such as a mixture of bleach and water) is used to sterilize
thoroughly,
beforehand). A gadget (also sterilized carefully) is inserted through the
rubber
cork and holds a small amount of fluid (some use a little vodka or gin) in a
P-trap
conformation, to act as a barrier against outside air getting in.

The open crock (covered to keep dust out) does not work with wine-making,
unless one wants a wine vinegar.

I remember that Fleishman's yeast (the cake kind was preferred) was used to
start the fermentation in crock pots. Some wine hobbyists use special
yeasts
that are alleged to make better-tasting wines or beers.

There are lots of other factors in fermenting. I've never heard it called
'brewing'
in connection with anything but alcohol making.

Where air is allowed to get to the fermentation (aerobic fermentation) the
result is usually vinegar. Where air is kept away from the process (some
breweries even use sealed stainless steel tanks and, once the fruit and
sugar
have been put in, pump nitrogen in to force air out).

If I were going to try to make a batch of red hot sauce (like Tabasco or
Evangeline brand or Red Devil brand or Louisiana brand) I would use a
crock pot. If I wanted to use wood, I would purchase a small used whiskey
or wine keg.

Some woods would put a bad flavor into the mix. Even oak, if I understand
correctly, has to be cured and charred inside, to seal it. The charcoal
acts, also
to remove from wine or whiskey, some impurities (and hence some possible
flavor influences you would not want).

I would recommend being very careful about the construction or purchase of
a wooden container. Obviously no one would want treated wood (containing
arsenic and/or other poisons put in to protect lumber from molds and
bacteria).
Cedars (of which cypress is a family member) have some antiseptic and
insect-repellent properties, which might retard yeast reproduction, and
might
require conditioning in ways to reduce the agents causing these, before they
would allow fermentation.

Generally I would just use a crock pot -- about a three gallon size -- and
bypass
the issues wooden containers might raise (other than a pre-used wine or
whiskey
cask), to avoid any flavor problems, interference problems (with
fermentation)
or possible toxin problems.

g

My gramma used one of those big old 5-gal. crocks, with a wooden lid. Oh,
the stench if you got too close....sauerkraut was darn good, though.

Cindy

Cindy,

I've never liked 'Bavarian' Sour Kraut. It is sweet. Same goes for
'Bavarian' buttermilk.

When I was a kid, and did not like anything strong... be it onions,
garlic... whatever... my maternal grandmother got me to try some sour kraut
that had fermented only about half the full term. That was perfect for me;
so, from then on, she would put up a few small jars and put my name on them.

Just as with my preference for some of the cheaper brands of red hot sauce
(as I was telling Rusty), I like some of the cheaper brands of sour kraut.
The less expensive hot sauce has more flavor. The less expensive sour kraut
has less.

But that's just one man's preference... not a judgment as to which is better
for anyone else.

One of my favorite dishes is country pork ribs, sautéed done and then
simmered in sour kraut and onions with a little white pepper. (Some sour
kraut brands already are salty, and no salt is needed. If they have little
salt, a little bit
is needed.

I like these over mashed Irish potatoes.

(Unlike my German friends, I do NOT like the cubed Irish potatoes cooked
with vinegar added. It toughens them.
But, once again, no judgment rendered. To each his own preferences.)

g

"Cindy" wrote in message
...
My gramma used one of those big old 5-gal. crocks, with a wooden lid. Oh,
the stench if you got too close....sauerkraut was darn good, though.

Cindy

I've never liked 'Bavarian' Sour Kraut. It is sweet. Same goes for
'Bavarian' buttermilk.

Yuk, I've never tasted SWEET sauerkraut!

When I was a kid, and did not like anything strong... be it onions,
garlic... whatever... my maternal grandmother got me to try some sour
kraut that had fermented only about half the full term. That was perfect
for me; so, from then on, she would put up a few small jars and put my
name on them.

Just as with my preference for some of the cheaper brands of red hot sauce
(as I was telling Rusty), I like some of the cheaper brands of sour kraut.
The less expensive hot sauce has more flavor. The less expensive sour
kraut has less.

I haven't tried that many kinds of kraut, but I agree about the hot sauce.
If I wanted to inflict pain on myself, I'd go get a tattoo or walk on hot
coals. I like mild sauces.

But that's just one man's preference... not a judgment as to which is
better for anyone else.

One of my favorite dishes is country pork ribs, sautéed done and then
simmered in sour kraut and onions with a little white pepper. (Some sour
kraut brands already are salty, and no salt is needed. If they have
little salt, a little bit
is needed.

I like that too! But I prefer spare ribs, and use half sauerkraut and half
cabbage, and add a sliced-up apple. No mashed potatoes though.

I like these over mashed Irish potatoes.

(Unlike my German friends, I do NOT like the cubed Irish potatoes cooked
with vinegar added. It toughens them.
But, once again, no judgment rendered. To each his own preferences.)

g

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:59:35 GMT, "g" wrote:

Unless it's just a nostalgia thing, I would opt for a crock pot.

Would be more sanitary, for sure! I will invest in a pound of fresh
serranos and see what happens. Even a glass beaker would work.

The open crock (covered to keep dust out) does not work with
wine-making, unless one wants a wine vinegar.

My Dad must have been a brute-force vintner!. The crock was just
covered with a cloth to keep out bugs. He added enough sugar to
produce a high alcohol content. Even at that he often added Everclear
when he bottled it. So these were sweet, stout wines. I do not think
you could make a delicate wine out of muscadines, elderberries, and
other southern fruits. If you lived in the Northern US, hard apple
cider would have been the choice.

There are better technologies now for home wine making.

Some woods would put a bad flavor into the mix.

But that might have been part of the process. My Granddad made good
whisky during the Prohibition by buying moonshine and aging it in
charred wooden barrels he had made by the local cooper. These small
barrels - two gallons or so - were sized to be fastened to the back
runners of rocking chairs and the frequent rocking helped age the
whisky.

Rusty Mase
Austin, Texas

Barry Comeau (Dr. Comeau to strangers) is consulted by
grape growers and wine makers from all over the world.

He has blown away a lot of mistaken beliefs I had.

If he gets a wine that is too dry, he will not hesitate to add
a little sugar and stir it in. People who make fine wines
would not bat an eye at this. It's just people who want to
impress someone who would drink a wine that's a little
sweeter or a little dryer than they like it and say it's perfect
just because it comes with a big price tag.

While it is true that wines in some parts of some countries
are made according to rules that approach religious ceremony,
one of the best selling wines in the world is sold only in
California, and at a modest price. The grape growers do not
approve of the fact the maker buys whatever grapes happen
to be on sale. Tough. The price is so light the wine has been
nicknames "Two Buck Chuck." If I remember correctly it
is sold only at Traders Joe's, in California. The maker could
charge more, if he wanted to. He has made a lot of profit
off of "Two Buck Chuck," and is happy.

Barry has tasted wine from every country in the world, and
can talk sophisticated talk with the most respected tasters.
He laughed when I asked him once what he thought of one
of my favorites, Manachevitz Concord... and then he
responded, "It's one of my favorites, too."

I asked him why he laughed. He replied, "Because so many
people have acted shocked when I told them that."

Fermentation takes out some of the flavor, and hardly
anything is better than the taste of concord grape juice; so
what the Manchevits people do is kill the fermentation and
then add some grape juice for flavor.

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy not?

Some of the modestly priced California wines today can hold
their own with the best of them.

Bottom line is this: pretense is for fakes. People who have
good taste (in more ways than one) let their own taste buds
be their guide... and not a price tag or a fancy name.

g





"Rusty Mase" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:59:35 GMT, "g" wrote:

Unless it's just a nostalgia thing, I would opt for a crock pot.

Would be more sanitary, for sure! I will invest in a pound of fresh
serranos and see what happens. Even a glass beaker would work.

The open crock (covered to keep dust out) does not work with
wine-making, unless one wants a wine vinegar.

My Dad must have been a brute-force vintner!. The crock was just
covered with a cloth to keep out bugs. He added enough sugar to
produce a high alcohol content. Even at that he often added Everclear
when he bottled it. So these were sweet, stout wines. I do not think
you could make a delicate wine out of muscadines, elderberries, and
other southern fruits. If you lived in the Northern US, hard apple
cider would have been the choice.

There are better technologies now for home wine making.

Some woods would put a bad flavor into the mix.

But that might have been part of the process. My Granddad made good
whisky during the Prohibition by buying moonshine and aging it in
charred wooden barrels he had made by the local cooper. These small
barrels - two gallons or so - were sized to be fastened to the back
runners of rocking chairs and the frequent rocking helped age the
whisky.

Rusty Mase
Austin, Texas

Wow, what a concept, just add sugar!! LOL I'm going to try that with some
yukky wine we have that I bought because it came in a pretty blue bottle,
maybe I'll like it. But my favorite is Mogen David Concord Wine.

Cindy

"g" wrote in message
ink.net...
Barry Comeau (Dr. Comeau to strangers) is consulted by
grape growers and wine makers from all over the world.

He has blown away a lot of mistaken beliefs I had.

If he gets a wine that is too dry, he will not hesitate to add
a little sugar and stir it in. People who make fine wines
would not bat an eye at this. It's just people who want to
impress someone who would drink a wine that's a little
sweeter or a little dryer than they like it and say it's perfect
just because it comes with a big price tag.

snip