Flower Bobdew wrote:
: J Jackson writes

: Flower Bobdew wrote:
:
: : Apologies if this sounds blindly naive but...
:
: : Presumably not a good idea to use any leaves which show signs of
: : disease, notably black spot? Or does the whole process of 'rotting down'
: : eventually make that a mute point?
:
: ALL our sycamore leaves are covered in black spots and they all go in the
: leaf mould pile.
:
: I'm sure there are some diseases that should be kept out of leaf mould
: piles, but I just pile everything in.

: And you've been doing this for a number of years without any apparent
: problems, Jim?

let's see, since 1988.

Jim

J Jackson writes

Flower Bobdew wrote:
: J Jackson writes

: Flower Bobdew wrote:
:
: : Apologies if this sounds blindly naive but...
:
: : Presumably not a good idea to use any leaves which show signs of
: : disease, notably black spot? Or does the whole process of 'rotting down'
: : eventually make that a mute point?
:
: ALL our sycamore leaves are covered in black spots and they all go in the
: leaf mould pile.
:
: I'm sure there are some diseases that should be kept out of leaf mould
: piles, but I just pile everything in.

: And you've been doing this for a number of years without any apparent
: problems, Jim?

let's see, since 1988.

{Laughs}

Ummm, you will let me know when you've had a bit more experience?

--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK

In article ,
Flower Bobdew wrote:
: : Presumably not a good idea to use any leaves which show signs of
: : disease, notably black spot? Or does the whole process of 'rotting down'
: : eventually make that a mute point?
:
: ALL our sycamore leaves are covered in black spots and they all go in the
: leaf mould pile.
:
: I'm sure there are some diseases that should be kept out of leaf mould
: piles, but I just pile everything in.

: And you've been doing this for a number of years without any apparent
: problems, Jim?

let's see, since 1988.

{Laughs}

Ummm, you will let me know when you've had a bit more experience?

Well, I have been doing that since the 1970s, and systematically
since the 1970s; and I know people who have been doing that since
time immemorial.

The point is that most such diseases either persist only in living
tissue (and so are destroyed by composting), or are extremely common
and can be windspread (and so can be regarded as ubiquitous). It is
VERY rare for something with resistant spores to be controllable by
destroying infected material on a garden scale.

In general, the solution is to try to reduce the reinfection rate
by ensuring that the conditions are appropriate. Hence the use of
Bordeaux mixture, milk, etc. for such things.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
:
: I'm sure there are some diseases that should be kept out of leaf mould
: piles, but I just pile everything in.

The point is that most such diseases either persist only in living
tissue (and so are destroyed by composting), or are extremely common
and can be windspread (and so can be regarded as ubiquitous). It is
VERY rare for something with resistant spores to be controllable by
destroying infected material on a garden scale.

In general, the solution is to try to reduce the reinfection rate
by ensuring that the conditions are appropriate. Hence the use of
Bordeaux mixture, milk, etc. for such things.

Interesting. I suppose, in my new-to-gardening infancy, I've heard
comments about collecting up/destroying things like black spot on fallen
leaves so they don't recur the following season, when it would appear
composting clearly takes it through a different process than simply
leaving them lying around would.

--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK

The message
from Flower Bobdew contains these words:

In general, the solution is to try to reduce the reinfection rate
by ensuring that the conditions are appropriate. Hence the use of
Bordeaux mixture, milk, etc. for such things.

Interesting. I suppose, in my new-to-gardening infancy, I've heard
comments about collecting up/destroying things like black spot on fallen
leaves so they don't recur the following season, when it would appear
composting clearly takes it through a different process than simply
leaving them lying around would.

High temperatures for a start.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
: The message
: from Flower Bobdew contains these words:

: In general, the solution is to try to reduce the reinfection rate
: by ensuring that the conditions are appropriate. Hence the use of
: Bordeaux mixture, milk, etc. for such things.

: Interesting. I suppose, in my new-to-gardening infancy, I've heard
: comments about collecting up/destroying things like black spot on fallen
: leaves so they don't recur the following season, when it would appear
: composting clearly takes it through a different process than simply
: leaving them lying around would.

: High temperatures for a start.

While the general compost heap gets upto temps that can can be
untouchable, I've never noticed high temperatures in my leaf mould piles
:-)

In article ,
Flower Bobdew writes:
|
| Interesting. I suppose, in my new-to-gardening infancy, I've heard
| comments about collecting up/destroying things like black spot on fallen
| leaves so they don't recur the following season, when it would appear
| composting clearly takes it through a different process than simply
| leaving them lying around would.

Yes - moving it elsewhere, for a start :-)

That ritual is of very limited use, though it is one of the few
that has any justification in science. Black spot is sufficiently
widespread that the best you can hope for is to alleviate it.
I did a comparison with one pair of roses, both removing and not
removing fallen leaves, and it made not a damn of difference.
Some people have observed some effect.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from J Jackson contains these words:

While the general compost heap gets upto temps that can can be
untouchable, I've never noticed high temperatures in my leaf mould piles
:-)

You're not doing it right.

Water it, with recycled beer, etc.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
: The message
: from J Jackson contains these words:

: While the general compost heap gets upto temps that can can be
: untouchable, I've never noticed high temperatures in my leaf mould piles
: :-)

: You're not doing it right.

: Water it, with recycled beer, etc.

Go on then - anybody else care to say whether they get "hot" piles of
leaves, even when watered with the recycled beer/cider (which I do along
with the last of the grass cuttings). I'm not convinced that a pile
consisting of 95% leaves can create a "hot" pile, but am willing to be
proved wrong.

J Jackson wrote:

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
: The message
: from J Jackson contains these words:

: While the general compost heap gets upto temps that can can be
: untouchable, I've never noticed high temperatures in my leaf mould piles
: :-)

: You're not doing it right.

: Water it, with recycled beer, etc.

Go on then - anybody else care to say whether they get "hot" piles of
leaves, even when watered with the recycled beer/cider (which I do along
with the last of the grass cuttings). I'm not convinced that a pile
consisting of 95% leaves can create a "hot" pile, but am willing to be
proved wrong.

I have known fresh pine needles and stripped bark in bulk go hot on
their own even in mid-winter.

Many autumn deciduous leaves like beech and oak for example contain
powerful anti-fungal agents like tannins that significantly slow the
process. I have never known my leaf mould heap (mostly beech some oak)
get warm. Even with ideal conditions it takes about two years for them
to rot down to a good leaf mould. The result is worth having though.

Regards,
Martin Brown

The message
from J Jackson contains these words:

Go on then - anybody else care to say whether they get "hot" piles of
leaves, even when watered with the recycled beer/cider (which I do along
with the last of the grass cuttings). I'm not convinced that a pile
consisting of 95% leaves can create a "hot" pile, but am willing to be
proved wrong.

Enclose them as you would a compost heap and keep them moist - they'll
generate heat.

I had a lot of dustbin bags of (mainly) poplar leaves last year, swept
up by me and my neighbours, and they created *LOTS* of heat when
constrained.

(In one of those big woven bags that sand and fertiliser gets delivered
in nowadays.)

I must confess that most of the help was recycled tea, not beer, but
evert trickle helps.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

J Jackson wrote:

(...) I'm not convinced that a pile
consisting of 95% leaves can create a "hot" pile, but am willing to be
proved wrong.

Hi,

It depends on the size of the pile. I collect tons of leaves (about 100
cubic metres last year - sorry to me metric, I don't know how to convert
this number into cubic feet or yards) every autumn and make *big* piles
of them. Well, I can assure you the piles literally steam and sticking
my hand into one of them would burn it ;-)

Here's a picture I took last year:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mon.jardin.p...lles_fumee.jpg

When I say "big" piles, I mean something like 6' (1.80m) high and wide,
and they're made of 100% leaves, nothing else. Leaf mould is ready to
use as a mulch about 6 months later and almost entirely composted less
than a year later. I'm using mainly shredded leaves, so this perhaps
speeds up the process a bit.

If the pile is much smaller, say something like 2 to 3' high, I also do
not think it's likely to get very hot.

Olivier (please excuse my approximate English, I'm French).

The message
from Olivier59 contains these words:

Olivier (please excuse my approximate English, I'm French).

Your English is excellent.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Janet Baraclough wrote:

The message
from Olivier59 contains these words:

J Jackson wrote:

(...) I'm not convinced that a pile
consisting of 95% leaves can create a "hot" pile, but am willing to be
proved wrong.

It depends on the size of the pile. I collect tons of leaves (about 100
cubic metres last year - sorry to me metric, I don't know how to convert
this number into cubic feet or yards) every autumn and make *big* piles
of them. Well, I can assure you the piles literally steam and sticking
my hand into one of them would burn it ;-)

(...) Where do you
collect such a mountain of leaves from?

Hi,

Neighbours' gardens (before they burn or dump them), other large gardens
around, private parcs... I'm trying to make a woodland garden, so leaves
are, well, gold :-)

Olivier (thanks for your kind words).

Janet Baraclough wrote:

: While the general compost heap gets upto temps that can can be
: untouchable, I've never noticed high temperatures in my leaf mould piles
: :-)

: You're not doing it right.
: Water it, with recycled beer, etc.

: Leafmould piles are generally made with dead brown leaves. They don't
: heat up when composted, unless you mix green plant material with them .

I must say that's what I'd read, and experienced so far.
Though some expereinces appear different - Olivier and huge volume of
leaves e.g. "Jaques" has indicated if he also composts similarly large
volumes of leaves or more usual domestic quantities.